FIFA Confederations Cup (9 Viewers)

Jun-hide

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2002
2,068
++ [ originally posted by slack ] ++

Sounds like the success syndrome that's typical with the Azzurri - club over country. Don't know what's happened to him but he seems more distracted than complacent.

Congrats to Japan for an excellent performance. Always a pleasure to see Asian teams doing well. South Korea comes to mind too and can't help thinking if Japan (technical superiors) have the sheer willpower and determination of their neighbours. Anyway, I thought Troussier did a fantastic job and Zico (sceptical about good players being good managers) was really a step backward. What about the apparent difference between 2 footballing philosophies? Wouldn't it be better if Japan promoted one of her own coaches instead of going for a name?
I think Hide is more of a "himself" over a "country" than a club versus country row. I think it is more to do with Hide's unique personality, and his individualism. It is pity that he doesn't put as much effort as he should because he is very talented player for any level.

On Troussier, I totally agree slack, Troussier did fantastic job.:):star:. Since he took over, we went to final of World Youth Championship in 99, won the Asian Cup, and for the first time (well out of two tries;):p) went passed the group stage. However, his achievement goes far beyond doing well in the tournament. In my opinion, he installed certain professionalsim and scientific approach training and preparation for the matches.
Nevertheless, his best quality is definetely mental. Troussier believe or not was on constant pressure from JFA to obtain result, and the rumor was that he was going to be fired had he not won the Asian Cup or did well in Conderations Cup. Sure, Troussier did make mistakes on many occassions, such as being thrashed by French, changing attacking formation which had done so well against the Turkey (He got huge stick from media for that), or leaving out Nakamura Shunsuke, quoting that he did not have enough space in the team to accomodate Ono, Alex, and Nakamura at the same time, which was extremely unpopular decision, and I guess similar to Italy and Roberto Baggio saga.:).
Nonetheless, everyone knows JFA didn't like Troussier not because he made mistakes but he simply wasn't world name coach to satisfy their taste, and bring in their poster boy Arsene Wenger. Troussier, despite all this, remained strong, and did admirably job for our country, and we, fans, love and respect him for his knowledge, courage, and achievement.
Zico is complete anti-thesis of Troussier. In terms of tactical knoweldge and organizing defence, there is no doubt Zico is inferior to Troussier. Ogasawara publicly questioned Zico's approach towards free-thinking creative attacking methods, stating that he felt the team would be better off with having certain offence tactics, and set place. In this instance, I am sticking with Zico because football has so much permeatations, it is impossible to pass and construct offence on certain set patterns also such approach makes attack predictable, which makes the very ineffective. Therefore, in the end, good attacking displays are not based on certain set plays but anticipation by players, in their movement, passing, and imagination. However, this incidence does show Zico's inability to organize the team, and at the back we looked far impressive as a unit although it is getting better somewhat. Nevertheless, I am pretty sure Zico will do the job.:) Firstly going back to Japanese home grown coach was not an option. We learned from Troussier that foreign coach is far superior to our counterpart in terms of knowledge, training, and philosophy on the game. Beside, option is pretty slim. Yanagishita Masaaki comes to mind, but he is young still got a lot to learn. But, his time will surely come. :). Also the manager will be following huge legacy left by Troussier. The next manager had to be the one which can take such pressure and yet draw support from supporters and JFA officials. Zico fits the bill. Firstly, he knows the country and footballing culture. He knows the players here, and he knows our mental, physical and technical attributes. Secondly, Zico is not a cheap mercenary looking for his fame and money. He genuinely likes our country, and we love him.:). People chanted Zico Zico in Tokyo stadium against Koreans, which indicates how popular he is.
Lastly and most importantly, I believe Zico is the right man to take our technical ability stage further, and bring true attacking style futbol. This is important, because soccer is growing and popular, especially amongst little kids, ( I grew up playing baseball as a kid, which was norm at the time;)) and such approach will be good for establishing true enlightened fans instead of bandwagoners. Also, though, as you have correctly mentioned slack, superior to Koreans or other Asians in terms of technical ability we are still lacking in that department compared to South Americans or Latin Europeans. I think Sakamoto in Fantasista (manga.:D) typifies, what we are lacking and what we desperately want. We have tenedencies to like big things, but as yet we haven't seen a home grown talent who can produce magical stuff at his will.:down:. I know i may be contradicting myself because i am not great believer in creativity without effectiviness, but it is different matter when you see home grown one of us doing magicial things which is normally done by South Americans. Shunsuke is our hope but he is not a fantasista we want and need. Hopefully, Zico's philosohpy to soccer can produce such talent.
 

Stu

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
17,557
++ [ originally posted by fabiana-juve ] ++
so its france v turkey and cameroon v colombia id like a turkey v colombia final..
Some how I just can't see Turkey beating France... I'm expecting a France-Cameroon final.
 

dpforever

Prediction Game Champ 2003 & 2005
Jan 12, 2002
3,794
++ [ originally posted by Silvia ] ++
Turkey won!
wow, I feel so happy for turkey, specially Rustu.:thumb:
That's definitely sweet revenge against Brazil.:D

Actually Turkey drew 2-2 with Brazil in the best match up to now in the tounrament but ofcourse made it to the Semis .. I'm happy for Turkey but I believe a 'France-Brazil' would make a better semi-final than a 'France-Turkey' one :)
 

slack

Junior Member
Dec 13, 2002
208
++ [ originally posted by Jun-hide ] ++
I think Hide is more of a "himself" over a "country" than a club versus country row. I think it is more to do with Hide's unique personality, and his individualism. It is pity that he doesn't put as much effort as he should because he is very talented player for any level.

On Troussier, I totally agree slack, Troussier did fantastic job.:):star:. Since he took over, we went to final of World Youth Championship in 99, won the Asian Cup, and for the first time (well out of two tries;):p) went passed the group stage. However, his achievement goes far beyond doing well in the tournament. In my opinion, he installed certain professionalsim and scientific approach training and preparation for the matches.
Nevertheless, his best quality is definetely mental. Troussier believe or not was on constant pressure from JFA to obtain result, and the rumor was that he was going to be fired had he not won the Asian Cup or did well in Conderations Cup. Sure, Troussier did make mistakes on many occassions, such as being thrashed by French, changing attacking formation which had done so well against the Turkey (He got huge stick from media for that), or leaving out Nakamura Shunsuke, quoting that he did not have enough space in the team to accomodate Ono, Alex, and Nakamura at the same time, which was extremely unpopular decision, and I guess similar to Italy and Roberto Baggio saga.:).
Nonetheless, everyone knows JFA didn't like Troussier not because he made mistakes but he simply wasn't world name coach to satisfy their taste, and bring in their poster boy Arsene Wenger. Troussier, despite all this, remained strong, and did admirably job for our country, and we, fans, love and respect him for his knowledge, courage, and achievement.
Zico is complete anti-thesis of Troussier. In terms of tactical knoweldge and organizing defence, there is no doubt Zico is inferior to Troussier. Ogasawara publicly questioned Zico's approach towards free-thinking creative attacking methods, stating that he felt the team would be better off with having certain offence tactics, and set place. In this instance, I am sticking with Zico because football has so much permeatations, it is impossible to pass and construct offence on certain set patterns also such approach makes attack predictable, which makes the very ineffective. Therefore, in the end, good attacking displays are not based on certain set plays but anticipation by players, in their movement, passing, and imagination. However, this incidence does show Zico's inability to organize the team, and at the back we looked far impressive as a unit although it is getting better somewhat. Nevertheless, I am pretty sure Zico will do the job.:) Firstly going back to Japanese home grown coach was not an option. We learned from Troussier that foreign coach is far superior to our counterpart in terms of knowledge, training, and philosophy on the game. Beside, option is pretty slim. Yanagishita Masaaki comes to mind, but he is young still got a lot to learn. But, his time will surely come. :). Also the manager will be following huge legacy left by Troussier. The next manager had to be the one which can take such pressure and yet draw support from supporters and JFA officials. Zico fits the bill. Firstly, he knows the country and footballing culture. He knows the players here, and he knows our mental, physical and technical attributes. Secondly, Zico is not a cheap mercenary looking for his fame and money. He genuinely likes our country, and we love him.:). People chanted Zico Zico in Tokyo stadium against Koreans, which indicates how popular he is.
Lastly and most importantly, I believe Zico is the right man to take our technical ability stage further, and bring true attacking style futbol. This is important, because soccer is growing and popular, especially amongst little kids, ( I grew up playing baseball as a kid, which was norm at the time;)) and such approach will be good for establishing true enlightened fans instead of bandwagoners. Also, though, as you have correctly mentioned slack, superior to Koreans or other Asians in terms of technical ability we are still lacking in that department compared to South Americans or Latin Europeans. I think Sakamoto in Fantasista (manga.:D) typifies, what we are lacking and what we desperately want. We have tenedencies to like big things, but as yet we haven't seen a home grown talent who can produce magical stuff at his will.:down:. I know i may be contradicting myself because i am not great believer in creativity without effectiviness, but it is different matter when you see home grown one of us doing magicial things which is normally done by South Americans. Shunsuke is our hope but he is not a fantasista we want and need. Hopefully, Zico's philosohpy to soccer can produce such talent.
Agree. Hide (not you but the "slack" one, that is :LOL: ) is very much his own man, isn't he? In most cases, I suppose being that is a good thing but unfortunately, its not working out for him.

Actually, my concern is more on the macro scale but what you shared was indeed very informative :) Yep, Troussier did a great job. Bringing Japanese football to where they are is a phenomenal achievement. Something he once said left a deep impression, along the lines of Japanese players are well-behaved and all but lack passion. I wouldn't call it a problem but rather more of cultural differences and the modern society syndrome. My country has similar problems, about players lacking drive, passion and generally soft due to a comfortable way of life. As you could probably guess, I am an admirer of non-conformists ;)

Anyway, I'm indeed very surprised when Zico of all people took over. With all due respect, he just doesn't strike me as a guy who has substance and one who knows his stuff as well as Troussier. Crucially, its a clash of extreme philosophies of football - European vs Latin. Will the organized/scientific approach be abandoned for flamboyance? It is clear that the best of both worlds in this case is very difficult, if not impossible, to co-exist.

IMO, the logical step for progression is continuity until there's sufficient evidence that Japan has stepped out of this transition (a bit like Juve vs Inter in a way) Even then, such a radical change should be carefully considered and gradually phased in. The worst-case scenario is becoming a jack instead of a master. Again, given the credentials of Zico and a LONG list of famous players being rubbishy managers/coaches, I am sorry but he doesn't inspire much faith. Then again, like you said, the obsession with 'big-names' has always been present. That's something we as fans can certainly identify with as well ;)

Lastly, I feel it is the right time for Japan to be asking some fundamental questions - which brand of football suits them more? It seems strange that a decision was taken towards the European school and then a drastic turnaround after a relatively short time? You guys and South Korea are spearheading the Asian challenge and the rest are looking up to you in going towards the right direction; the repercussions are huge and far-reaching. A mistake at this point would undo all the good work done and revert to square one ... that's gonna be such a waste and pity.
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
Turkey is playing without a host of stars and they still come very close to drawing France, that says a lot about Turkey's rapid evolution since they first qualified for Euro96!!! :eek::strong:

The match was quite good today, Govou instead of Cisse was definitely a good choice, there's nothing happening with Henry and Cisse both playing. Then Pires was also on the job, pushing forward with Govou. Gallas, however, is not up to Mexes' standard. Wiltord was not bad today and Henry was his usual self.

Turkey have only themselves to blame, they played a great match and missed that decisive penalty. But just think about how much depth they will have come Euro2004, with these guys who eliminated Brazil, dominated France + Nihat, to some the best player in the whole Liga this year, Emre, Ilhan Mansis, Hasan Sas! :eek:
 

Anders

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2002
3,134
Confederations Cup Final Preview: France v Cameroon
soccerage.com

Football is truly put into perspective by the tragic events of June 26. Marc-Vivien Foe was a gentleman of a footballer and will be sorely missed by many people around the world.

Cameroon, though, will play this final against France and they'll want to put on a show for that powerful central midfield player.

France have used the tournament to exorcise the ghosts of that failed bid to win the World Cup. Now they are just one step away from winning the Confederations Cup. They'll be favourites to do so too. They've never been convincing but few can argue against four wins in four matches.

On Thursday in the Stade de France it was the Arsenal show. Thierry Henry, Robert Pires and Sylvain Wiltord were the men on target as Jacques Santini's men slipped past Turkey. Les Bleus were devastating at times, but the Turks dominated much of the second-half and were unlucky not to draw level in the closing minutes after Okan Yilmaz's penalty miss.

Cameroon will be in confident mood going into the final. They've beaten World Cup holders Brazil, semi-finalists Turkey and Copa America holders Colombia. Now for the current Confederations Cup holders?

Well, if Santini's side are to retain their trophy, they have to do something no side has done in the tournament so far – score against the Indomitable Lions. Only the USA have held Winnie Schaefer's men to a draw.

For this match a minute's silence will be held, both sides and officials will wear black armbands and flags will be flown at half mast.

The last word goes to Rigobert Song, Foe's great friend: "We will pull ourselves together, we will try to win in memory of Marco."


FORM GUIDE

France (Last Six Matches): WWWWWW

Les Bleus, without the likes of Zinedine Zidane and Patrick Vieira, have beaten Colombia (1-0), Japan (2-1), New Zealand (5-0) and Turkey (3-2).

Cameroon (Last Six Matches): WLWWDW

Cameroon began with a 1-0 win over an out-of-sorts Brazil side, before beating Turkey by the same score to book their passage through. The USA were then held 0-0, before the 1-0 semi-final win over Colombia courtesy of Pius NDIEFI.


LATEST TEAM NEWS

Cameroon: Eto'o is not certain to start as he travelled back to Spain to play for Mallorca in the Copa del Rey final. Thursday's scorer N'Diefi could get the nod. Tchato is out.

France: Santini has Sagnol back from suspension and he should start at right-back. The rest of the team virtually picks itself with Govou set to partner Henry in attack.


PROBABLE LINE-UPS

France : Barthez - Sagnol, Mexès, Desailly (cap), Lizarazu - Wiltord, Dacourt, Pedretti, Pires - Govou, Henry

Cameroon : Kameni - Njanka, Song, Mettomo (cap), Atouba - Geremi, Djemba-Djemba, Mbami, Mezague, Idrissou - Eto'o or N'Diefi


PLAYERS TO WATCH

Thierry Henry (France): the Arsenal striker always looked on a mission in this tournament and he is one step away from achieving his objective.

Geremi (Cameroon): it is uncertain where the Real Madrid player will be plying his trade next season, but he'll be out to impress in front of any interested suitors.

--------------------------------------------

So what's gonna happen???
Who will win it?
Will France go easy on Cameroon?

I believe Cameroon will gather up all their strenght and beat France as a tribute to Marc.

Tough one to predict actually. Both are quality sides...
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
I don't even know whom to cheer for now :stress:

WHO'S HOT

Samuel Eto'o, scored twice in the Copa del Rey 2nd leg won by Mallorca.

===

Samuel Eto'o scored twice and was the man-of-the-match as he inspired Mallorca to a 3-0 victory over Recreativo in the Copa Del Rey Final.
The Cameroon international was outstanding throughout as he completed the first of two finals he has vowed to play in honour of Marc-Vivien Foe.
After starring in Mallorca's win, Eto'o retreated early from the celebrations to prepare for his flight to Paris as he joins up with his Cameroon teammates for the Confederations Final.
"I have a friend sitting with God watching this game and I did it all for him," said an emotional Eto'o at the final whistle.
His brace against Recre helped steer the Balearic club to their first ever Copa Del Rey and a place in next season's Uefa Cup.
After an even start, Mallorca took the lead when Eto'o was pushed in the area by Loren and Walter Pandiani slammed the ball home from the penalty spot.
As Gregorio Manzano's side took control of the game, goalkeeper Leo Franco was left with little to as Recre fired high and wide every time they created a chance.
Eto'o's first effort of the night came when he connected with a flick-on from Pandiani shortly after the break, but Jose Luque produced a superb reactionary save to keep the ball out.
But minutes later, Eto'o did find the net as he sped clear of the Recre defence before slipping the ball inside the near post before wheeling away to celebrate.
His second came six minutes from time and capped a tremendous display.
After sidestepping two defenders, the ex-Real Madrid striker whipped a shot in from 14 yards that the keeper had no chance of stopping.
That goal put the game beyond Recre's grasp and their 113-year wait for a trophy goes on.

soccerage
 

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