Guys like Lewandowski, Götze or Ribery are good players, no doubt. But would you ever consider them to be of the level of Ronaldo for example?
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Felipe Anderson (2 Viewers)
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I agree, those two require their own level, they are current legends. It's true that Bayern lack a decided and thorough match winner like either, but that is almost by default. Ribery in his prime was 3rd or 4th best, and you can consider Robben around those places, so those two with the collective strength make a beast of a team.
Neuer definitely deserves a strong mention.
Neuer definitely deserves a strong mention.
He is pure winger, they take their game a level up when they start to become more goal scoring attackers, but wingers are still not there to score set amount of goals to be deemed world class, but to set them up. Kaka was world class and more attacking then Ribery, almost like a forward but he still only scored around the 12 goal mark you use as wc yardstick.
Are they really? Robben and Ribery are arguably in their prime right now. Robben definitely never played better. Although he has had great games he never truly convinced me though. Never had one completely consistent season.
Lahm and Schweini are nothing special and would no doubt fail outside of Germany. Neuer is arguably world class, I'll give you that.
There are. Ribery sucks at those though.
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My main point was that with Bayern it's the club and the way it is organized that makes them winners, rather than the players or Guardiola.
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He's overrated as fuck though.
Lahm and Schweini are nothing special and would no doubt fail outside of Germany. Neuer is arguably world class, I'll give you that.
There are. Ribery sucks at those though.
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My main point was that with Bayern it's the club and the way it is organized that makes them winners, rather than the players or Guardiola.
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He's overrated as fuck though.
He wot? Such an imposing player when he isn't injured. This argument is kind of pointless to say as the only thing I can say is "Under Jupp he was nothing short of world class" and you'll disagree. His career statistics are similar to Zidane, but he is a less talented player. Many of the same quaractaristics tho.
I don't disagree Ribery is overrated, in fact Schweinsteiger was too (looked so ordinary vs Italy in euro 12, and Spain midfield later). But unless you narrow the meaning to such exclusive level that only Messi and Ronaldo is world class, you have to acknowledge the fact Bayern are filled with top players. Robben is the best one, if he isn't world class then little no one else is, he is their game changer that breaks patterns. Likes of Lahm, Neuer, Muller and Schweinsteiger have shown kind of consistency to warrant the top players reputation. Götze has great ability and most potential of all but still too young and green to shown their kind of consistency (even if the wonder boy decided friggin wc final).
The same characteristics? They're completely different players. Ribery is a pure winger who relies on speed. Zidane a playmaking midfielder who was rather slow. The reason I don't believe Ribery is anywhere near as imposing as, for example, Robben, is that I think his end product in general is poor. It's not just that he doesn't score, he also crosses not nearly enough to play out wide (which is also the only position he's suited to play).
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Grosso was arguably Italy's most influential player in 2006, so that says very little. I think we can all agree Lahm was very lucky throughout his career. Not exactly the kind of guy you'd expect to make it at Juventus or Man City for example. Schweini is a hard worker and a player I admire, but let's face facts: there are lots of Schweinis out there.
Neuer though, I will concede, is indeed world class.
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Grosso was arguably Italy's most influential player in 2006, so that says very little. I think we can all agree Lahm was very lucky throughout his career. Not exactly the kind of guy you'd expect to make it at Juventus or Man City for example. Schweini is a hard worker and a player I admire, but let's face facts: there are lots of Schweinis out there.
Neuer though, I will concede, is indeed world class.
While I think I understand the argument you're trying to make here, it's not a very good one imo. For example "Ancelotti didn't think his team was good enough to play their usual gameplan against Bayern" is just not true, or at least we don't know if it's true. The only thing we do know is that Ancelotti thought it was better to play against Bayern the way they did rather than the way they usually do. And looking at the games, I think he was rather spot on with that.
And in general that's the crux with your argument in my opinion: If someone changes his gameplan when playing against you, it doesn't necessarily mean that they think you're better. It just means that they feel more confident playing another way, it gives no indication whatsoever about the situation otherwise. It might seem like a small difference, but it's really crucial to the argument here.
Besides, I don't feel as if a managers unwillingness to adapt to their opponent should really be listed as a strength, and the opposite as a sign of weakness. If anything, this is precisely where Guardiola (who I hold in extremely high regard, even though I'm personally no fan of his, far from it) loses points.
And in general that's the crux with your argument in my opinion: If someone changes his gameplan when playing against you, it doesn't necessarily mean that they think you're better. It just means that they feel more confident playing another way, it gives no indication whatsoever about the situation otherwise. It might seem like a small difference, but it's really crucial to the argument here.
Besides, I don't feel as if a managers unwillingness to adapt to their opponent should really be listed as a strength, and the opposite as a sign of weakness. If anything, this is precisely where Guardiola (who I hold in extremely high regard, even though I'm personally no fan of his, far from it) loses points.
Did Seven just call Ribery a pace fraud? 
a complete player, his speed not even being his best attribute.
a complete player, his speed not even being his best attribute.
Ribery relies slightly more on speed than Zidane did. Out of the playmakers in the game today I think it's fair to say that Ribery resembles Zidanes style. Not in terms of quality, but definitely in terms of how he leaves his mark on games.
