Federico Bernardeschi (75 Viewers)
- Thread starter KB824
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@Hustini
Calciopoli is a fair point but in what way? Take juve 2003 CL final team for example. How many youngsters that team had? You can maybe only mention Buffon and he was 25 by then.
If we talk just before 2006. I guess Zlatan was sort of young but not italian. Chiellini and Balzaretti were the only youngsters involved with Capello Juve. And id argue calciopoli actually benefited Chiellini. If calciopoli hadnt happened Cannavaro and Thuram would have played couple more seasons and Moggi would have bought some proven name replacements by 2008 as Cannavaro decline kicked in.
I remember we were very close to selling Chiellini abroad around 06-08 summers.
Its a fairer point if you actually believe in calciopoli as in teams were too busy fixing games and results and reps rather than growing youth.
Its possible Marchisio would never have established himself here as well if calciopoli didnt happen. Think about it. Moggi and Capello Juve rarely gave young players chance. Im talking about bringing up within the club not buying Zlatan or Buffon relatively young.
So thats why i dont completely see the calciopoli argument working at this stage going into 2018.
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Id argue that calciopoli could have been an opportunity which has been missed if we talk the whole Italy. Instead Juve has moved forwards since then and is one of the more modern and best run clubs in world football now. Meanwhile our "rivals" have stagnated or struggle to make changes including building new high standard stadiums and so on.
The fact that crooks like Tavecchio even get into these positions is alarming. These should have ex pros or people with vision and higher education backround involved like our own Andrea Agnelli.
Although i do remember people in these same forums being against Albertini getting that same position which Tavecchio got. Maybe it was the Milan roots bias.
Calciopoli is a fair point but in what way? Take juve 2003 CL final team for example. How many youngsters that team had? You can maybe only mention Buffon and he was 25 by then.
If we talk just before 2006. I guess Zlatan was sort of young but not italian. Chiellini and Balzaretti were the only youngsters involved with Capello Juve. And id argue calciopoli actually benefited Chiellini. If calciopoli hadnt happened Cannavaro and Thuram would have played couple more seasons and Moggi would have bought some proven name replacements by 2008 as Cannavaro decline kicked in.
I remember we were very close to selling Chiellini abroad around 06-08 summers.
Its a fairer point if you actually believe in calciopoli as in teams were too busy fixing games and results and reps rather than growing youth.
Its possible Marchisio would never have established himself here as well if calciopoli didnt happen. Think about it. Moggi and Capello Juve rarely gave young players chance. Im talking about bringing up within the club not buying Zlatan or Buffon relatively young.
So thats why i dont completely see the calciopoli argument working at this stage going into 2018.
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Id argue that calciopoli could have been an opportunity which has been missed if we talk the whole Italy. Instead Juve has moved forwards since then and is one of the more modern and best run clubs in world football now. Meanwhile our "rivals" have stagnated or struggle to make changes including building new high standard stadiums and so on.
The fact that crooks like Tavecchio even get into these positions is alarming. These should have ex pros or people with vision and higher education backround involved like our own Andrea Agnelli.
Although i do remember people in these same forums being against Albertini getting that same position which Tavecchio got. Maybe it was the Milan roots bias.
Further more point is that if we talk youngsters. Smaller clubs should actually be more involved with it. Its not really about big clubs. Big clubs have the best players in their prime years with then an odd home grown player in the mix like with us with Marchisio.
Bayern has like Lahm or Müller in one decade but there is lot of emphasis in youth development in the entire league, hence by the time the players have grown there is that next step situation when they go to either Bayern or abroad. Goretzka is the next in line there.
In Italy only Atalanta youth section seems to be getting some credit. The smaller sides should put more into that aspect rather than just existing or surviving.
In essence cases like the Barca Tiki Taka generation of 00s are rare. We shouldnt just look at the next generation within Juve. Every club should be involved.
Juve doesnt have a single italian striker right now (Berna is not striker for me), but in the end Juve doesnt have as much time to really grow that next italian striker, when you are involved in winning and fighting for titles. That should be aim of sides like Atalanta, Sassuolo, Bologna, Udinese, etc.
Bayern has like Lahm or Müller in one decade but there is lot of emphasis in youth development in the entire league, hence by the time the players have grown there is that next step situation when they go to either Bayern or abroad. Goretzka is the next in line there.
In Italy only Atalanta youth section seems to be getting some credit. The smaller sides should put more into that aspect rather than just existing or surviving.
In essence cases like the Barca Tiki Taka generation of 00s are rare. We shouldnt just look at the next generation within Juve. Every club should be involved.
Juve doesnt have a single italian striker right now (Berna is not striker for me), but in the end Juve doesnt have as much time to really grow that next italian striker, when you are involved in winning and fighting for titles. That should be aim of sides like Atalanta, Sassuolo, Bologna, Udinese, etc.
There aren't that many IT prospects I would like to join us anyway, even if I could cherry pick irrespective of price and background.
In the current roster... Donnarumma for long-term replacement of Buffon. Perhaps Jorginho, Belotti, Romagnoli and Insigne. Obviously Verratti.
Among the youth I am much more uncertain because I haven't watched them enough. Chiesa? Maybe? Barella? Is there anyone else?
How many IT players would be able to be a strong force in our team if exclude Verratti?
In the current roster... Donnarumma for long-term replacement of Buffon. Perhaps Jorginho, Belotti, Romagnoli and Insigne. Obviously Verratti.
Among the youth I am much more uncertain because I haven't watched them enough. Chiesa? Maybe? Barella? Is there anyone else?
How many IT players would be able to be a strong force in our team if exclude Verratti?
Falcao: Italy, look at Brazil. Ancelotti… | Football Italia
Brazil and Roma icon Paulo Roberto Falcao urges Italians to stop 'vilifying’ their young players and notes Carlo Ancelotti “is only missing a World Cup.”
Falcao launched the careers of several Brazilian World Cup winners in 1994 during his spell as the country’s CT between 1990 and 1991, and the former midfielder felt the time had come for Italy to stage a 'rebirth’ similar to that of the Selecao.
“It’s absurd that they’re not going to the World Cup, tragic even,” he told Corriere della Sera.
“Still, it’s time for Italy to have a rebirth and take stock. It’s not just one match but a malaise that started long ago.
“Young players? They’re always vilified in Italy. If they make two mistakes, they’re burned. We do things differently in Brazil.
“When I was CT in 1990, I launched [the international careers of] Marcio Santos, Mauro Silva and Leonardo when they were still not very well known.
“Ancelotti? As a player, he didn’t have the fabric of a Coach. He had a vision of playing but talked very little.
“The right man for Italy? I told him that he had to win a World Cup. That’s the only trophy he’s missing, although it won’t be for a while now…”
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Its not like this is new to anyone.
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https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...buffon-italy-goalkeeper-fury-urchin-world-cup
Brazil and Roma icon Paulo Roberto Falcao urges Italians to stop 'vilifying’ their young players and notes Carlo Ancelotti “is only missing a World Cup.”
Falcao launched the careers of several Brazilian World Cup winners in 1994 during his spell as the country’s CT between 1990 and 1991, and the former midfielder felt the time had come for Italy to stage a 'rebirth’ similar to that of the Selecao.
“It’s absurd that they’re not going to the World Cup, tragic even,” he told Corriere della Sera.
“Still, it’s time for Italy to have a rebirth and take stock. It’s not just one match but a malaise that started long ago.
“Young players? They’re always vilified in Italy. If they make two mistakes, they’re burned. We do things differently in Brazil.
“When I was CT in 1990, I launched [the international careers of] Marcio Santos, Mauro Silva and Leonardo when they were still not very well known.
“Ancelotti? As a player, he didn’t have the fabric of a Coach. He had a vision of playing but talked very little.
“The right man for Italy? I told him that he had to win a World Cup. That’s the only trophy he’s missing, although it won’t be for a while now…”
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Its not like this is new to anyone.
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https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...buffon-italy-goalkeeper-fury-urchin-world-cup
One can say that from the big clubs in Italy Milan and Roma are doing fairly well with their youngsters. As for the Italian strikers we have Cerri and Kean.
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I think it could have been a good call to pass on Berardi. You can see the difference in attitude between him and Fede. The latter decided to join from a club that clearly hates us and when the competition is even bigger now.
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Juventus invest time and patience in Berna but we pass on Berardi as for the other flank 
I'm happy with Cuadrado too but...wish we would've kept Giacherinni also.
I'm happy with Cuadrado too but...wish we would've kept Giacherinni also.
Didn’t help them advance the group in 2010 or 2014 same thing happened
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It’s not about ONLY qualifiying for the WC rather what you do when you get there.
I mean, no warning signs from two group exits in back to back WCs and not even making it to one?
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It’s like after 2006 there was in instant decline. Night and day difference
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It’s not about ONLY qualifiying for the WC rather what you do when you get there.
I mean, no warning signs from two group exits in back to back WCs and not even making it to one?
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It’s like after 2006 there was in instant decline. Night and day difference
I dont really rank Belotti, but the other mentioned would be good. Especially Veratti, insigne and Donnarumma would be awesome. Barella looks interesting and he has the potential to be really good. Chiesa is a must buy for me. Lost of talent and a lot of grinta to. To bad he is with the rats.
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Berardi sucks so bad. He had great numbers the first couple of years in Seria A, but hes talent has always been limited. At best a Lazio, Fiorentina level talent.
And why in the world would anybody want Giacherinni back?
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Juventus invest time and patience in Berna but we pass on Berardi as for the other flank I'm happy with Cuadrado too but...wish we would've kept Giacherinni also.
I'm happy with Cuadrado too but...wish we would've kept Giacherinni also.
And why in the world would anybody want Giacherinni back?
I think it is hard to make calls on young italian players. For eg. Berardi looked good at first but has gone backwards...if he did choose to join juve would he had further advanced or would we be saying he doesnt have what it takes? Is playing at juve with better players and potentially facing CL teams better for his development or is playing at sassuolo better? Not saying every italian young player is good enough but the big teams in italy do favour older players and are more reluctant to give opportunities to them.