Nah, that preceeds Calciopoli. Who were the young forward talents in 2005 for example? Gilardino?
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Federico Bernardeschi (124 Viewers)
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Giovinco was the next big thing 
it was always going to be tough to replicate creative geniuses like Del Piero, Totti born into the same generation following Baggio and being followed by Pirlo, those type of players don't come around that often, to me it's a freak accident more than something planned.
I also don't think Brazil will have a forward line like Ronaldo-Rivaldo-Ronaldinho or Ronaldo-Adriano-Kaka-Ronaldinho anytime soon, Manchester United probably won't have another generation like the 90ties one ever again and Argentina one day will have one not five WC forwards at their disposal. And it won't have anything to do with coach quality falling down, it's just how things are, super talents coming through is unpredictable, the only thing you can do is nurture the ones you have to max potential (Juve and Seba himself obviously failed to do that in case of Giovinco).
Anyways, Berna has the talent to be a real quality player for Juve, I don't expect him to take on the team on his shoulders like Del Piero or Nedved have done, but he can be a real quality player like Camoranesi f.e. was
it was always going to be tough to replicate creative geniuses like Del Piero, Totti born into the same generation following Baggio and being followed by Pirlo, those type of players don't come around that often, to me it's a freak accident more than something planned.
I also don't think Brazil will have a forward line like Ronaldo-Rivaldo-Ronaldinho or Ronaldo-Adriano-Kaka-Ronaldinho anytime soon, Manchester United probably won't have another generation like the 90ties one ever again and Argentina one day will have one not five WC forwards at their disposal. And it won't have anything to do with coach quality falling down, it's just how things are, super talents coming through is unpredictable, the only thing you can do is nurture the ones you have to max potential (Juve and Seba himself obviously failed to do that in case of Giovinco).
Anyways, Berna has the talent to be a real quality player for Juve, I don't expect him to take on the team on his shoulders like Del Piero or Nedved have done, but he can be a real quality player like Camoranesi f.e. was
No, man. That would be like saying Belgium has excellent youth programs because we now have quality players. Those programs might be why we get players like Vermaelen or Vertonghen, but someone like Hazard is just pure talent and you're just lucky if your country has a player like that.
Italy right now are just a bit unlucky imo.
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Italy right now are just a bit unlucky imo.
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Considering who is running FIGC and who decided to destroy the league during Calciopoli would lead most to believe its more than being unlucky
Even if they made it to the WC they would have been embarrassed. This problem runs much deeper than bad luck imo.
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Calciopoli lead a chain of events that crippled Italian football. Everything from taking down the main club that supported Italian players to losing the prestige of being able to lure great players. At the time i would have thought it would have pushed the bigger clubs to focus more on Italian youth as a result of having less money because that’s where i see the biggest issues facing the NT.
Even if they made it to the WC they would have been embarrassed. This problem runs much deeper than bad luck imo.
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Calciopoli lead a chain of events that crippled Italian football. Everything from taking down the main club that supported Italian players to losing the prestige of being able to lure great players. At the time i would have thought it would have pushed the bigger clubs to focus more on Italian youth as a result of having less money because that’s where i see the biggest issues facing the NT.
I think blaming calciopoli for Italy failure for 2018 and in terms of lack of talent is naive.
There are less talented/less names teams who qualified for World Cup. Are you honestly suggesting this Sweden or say Iceland with 200 000 people has more talented squads? I cant name a single Swedish player if i would be to be waken up middle of night, well apart from Zlatan but he isnt going to be there from what i understand.
Bad bad management happened.
Yes there are some issues with Italy (not a single proven world class striker/Insigne is not striker) but its not as bad as people say it is. Donnarumma can replace Buffon, Rugani, Caldara, Romagnoli can take over from BBC. So there are options there, they are young unproven players, but the options are there. Guys like Jorginho need to be given more chances in midfield, Verratti probably needs to step up, however, Pirlo hadnt done sh-t for Italy till 2006 and he was 27 then, so there is still time for Verratti.
The attack is the big concern. I just dont rate Immobile at all, for me he is very annoying (he is current top scorer in league and was Italy top scorer, but he doesnt really make the difference in these big games and big stages). And Bellotti needs a big team move to prove himself imo, can he really do it in CL and etc. So there is the place Italy also needs to look further into future, can Kean become some super hyper striker? What other options are there. Too bad Balo is inconsistent mess, cause if he produced those performances like he did in 2012 he would fit it well right now, could play a front 3 with Insigne-Balo-Berna. I read in some other forum that Orsolini is supposed to be very promising (winger, Atalanta, 20 years old). Then there is also Chiesa.
There are less talented/less names teams who qualified for World Cup. Are you honestly suggesting this Sweden or say Iceland with 200 000 people has more talented squads? I cant name a single Swedish player if i would be to be waken up middle of night, well apart from Zlatan but he isnt going to be there from what i understand.
Bad bad management happened.
Yes there are some issues with Italy (not a single proven world class striker/Insigne is not striker) but its not as bad as people say it is. Donnarumma can replace Buffon, Rugani, Caldara, Romagnoli can take over from BBC. So there are options there, they are young unproven players, but the options are there. Guys like Jorginho need to be given more chances in midfield, Verratti probably needs to step up, however, Pirlo hadnt done sh-t for Italy till 2006 and he was 27 then, so there is still time for Verratti.
The attack is the big concern. I just dont rate Immobile at all, for me he is very annoying (he is current top scorer in league and was Italy top scorer, but he doesnt really make the difference in these big games and big stages). And Bellotti needs a big team move to prove himself imo, can he really do it in CL and etc. So there is the place Italy also needs to look further into future, can Kean become some super hyper striker? What other options are there. Too bad Balo is inconsistent mess, cause if he produced those performances like he did in 2012 he would fit it well right now, could play a front 3 with Insigne-Balo-Berna. I read in some other forum that Orsolini is supposed to be very promising (winger, Atalanta, 20 years old). Then there is also Chiesa.
Your last paragraph sorta builds off of my point. Italy’s policy on playing younger players and not trusting them more regularly is part of the problem.
And I said already that the other part of the problem is who is running the FIGC (in your words, “bad management”).
It is very much a combination of all things said. Italy had just won the WC and did little to plan for the future imo as there wasn’t a solid plan in place for the next crop of players to take the torch. Italy was on damage control for the next couple years.
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Young in Italy is like 24-25 whereas other countries have no problem getting teens or 20-21 year olds in regularly.
And I said already that the other part of the problem is who is running the FIGC (in your words, “bad management”).
It is very much a combination of all things said. Italy had just won the WC and did little to plan for the future imo as there wasn’t a solid plan in place for the next crop of players to take the torch. Italy was on damage control for the next couple years.
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Young in Italy is like 24-25 whereas other countries have no problem getting teens or 20-21 year olds in regularly.
Well Bellotti is younger than Morata and he was starting most games for Italy under Ventura. As my last paragraph was talking about strikers.
If we talk in general, yes its a problem in Italy, but you cant expect them to stop calling for example Buffon, Chiellini etc just because their x age. And ultimately BBBC where the oldest players in this XI.
Ok there was also De Rossi, but i can sort of see the point calling him cause Marchisio and Verratti are injured so often that you need some alternatives and he is also a leader and so on. But Jorginho could have gotten more chances instead of Parolo who is of course also 31, like Marchisio.
Imagine if Ventura had stopped calling Barzagli and Chiellini for this campaign? Most people here would have crucified him long before this week then.
If we talk in general, yes its a problem in Italy, but you cant expect them to stop calling for example Buffon, Chiellini etc just because their x age. And ultimately BBBC where the oldest players in this XI.
Ok there was also De Rossi, but i can sort of see the point calling him cause Marchisio and Verratti are injured so often that you need some alternatives and he is also a leader and so on. But Jorginho could have gotten more chances instead of Parolo who is of course also 31, like Marchisio.
Imagine if Ventura had stopped calling Barzagli and Chiellini for this campaign? Most people here would have crucified him long before this week then.
Barzagli should be behind Rugani and he probably would be if we played Rugani more which doubles back on my point about trusting younger players more.
Balotelli should have been a shoe in. Insigne too (starting). All beyond the “youngster” age which easily supports your bad management theory. (Jorginho too).
If the bigger clubs showed more patience and trust in their younger players their development curve would be different. We all talk about it and have been for years.
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Chiellini is still performing quite well. Barzagli it’s easy to see his age has caught up.
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Morata has also played at Real Madrid, Juventus and Chelsea.
Belotti, well, he hasn’t come close to that.
Balotelli should have been a shoe in. Insigne too (starting). All beyond the “youngster” age which easily supports your bad management theory. (Jorginho too).
If the bigger clubs showed more patience and trust in their younger players their development curve would be different. We all talk about it and have been for years.
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Chiellini is still performing quite well. Barzagli it’s easy to see his age has caught up.
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Morata has also played at Real Madrid, Juventus and Chelsea.
Belotti, well, he hasn’t come close to that.
i don't agree with hustini and wouldn't blame it all on calciopoli, but that's quite a surprisingly lazy explanation from you. italy got it wrong lately on so many levels: they haven't got enough faith in youth players, their u21 is pretty consistent, still, their young players often fail to make it to the next level, their stadiums are old, clubs' financing never recovered after calciopoli, their leadership consists of dinosaurs (quote from cannavaro, but he's right about it), italy is not united and it's widely accepted that other clubs are trying to beat juve at the green table once again, their nt coach selection for this wc campaign was a complete miss, etc.
just one thing: tavecchio, an old, bigot, racist man with a remarkable criminal record, has only got 3 'no' votes from the 20 serie a clubs when he was elected. (juve, roma and torino voted against him.) he's the trump of world's football, without the wealth our favorite donald has. that's not some bad luck.
btw during the last decade, italy have been more successful than belgium on u21 level. still, the belgian nt is way ahead of italy at the moment. that's not just bad luck: young belgian players are simply better managed.
just one thing: tavecchio, an old, bigot, racist man with a remarkable criminal record, has only got 3 'no' votes from the 20 serie a clubs when he was elected. (juve, roma and torino voted against him.) he's the trump of world's football, without the wealth our favorite donald has. that's not some bad luck.
btw during the last decade, italy have been more successful than belgium on u21 level. still, the belgian nt is way ahead of italy at the moment. that's not just bad luck: young belgian players are simply better managed.
I absolutely agree about Insigne.
Balotelli is 50/50 in all fairness. He just got sent off like last week again for Nice.
Although like i said myself, if he would produce the 2012 vs Germany performances, he would fit in like a glow, instead of these useless big team flops like Immobile.
Insigne--Balo--any winger
Balo has that physical side which other options dont have. But he does come with his own issues. The rep doesnt help, like i said, he got sent off just recently for Nice but there is also probably some rep issue there as in, he seems to get those bookings easier than some other players.
So, you do agree in part with me that A) Calciopoli was part of the problem and B) other countries manage their youth better.
It’s not ONE single problem here. It’s multiple
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Balo is definitely a wildcard for sure. His talent was needed for sure. Problem is you never know what he will do mentally.
It’s not ONE single problem here. It’s multiple
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Balo is definitely a wildcard for sure. His talent was needed for sure. Problem is you never know what he will do mentally.
TBH in terms of Belotti or Morata i was talking about that young player policy. Belotti is 23, last season he was 22 and he scored 26 serie a league goals.
Morata was not starting for Spain before 23.
But like i said myself, Italy doesnt have that star power quality in attack, and Belotti should move to a bigger club to prove himself, sort of like Morata, who although was Reals own academy player so different case. Belotti should/should have gone to a Roma, Milan or abroad. If he doesnt move in the next 2 years then forget about it tbh. Will be a DN type of figure then at best.
Morata was not starting for Spain before 23.
But like i said myself, Italy doesnt have that star power quality in attack, and Belotti should move to a bigger club to prove himself, sort of like Morata, who although was Reals own academy player so different case. Belotti should/should have gone to a Roma, Milan or abroad. If he doesnt move in the next 2 years then forget about it tbh. Will be a DN type of figure then at best.
I dunno, hasn't berna's defensive abilities been suspect so far? I remember his stupid tackle recently and there was a game early on where he didn't tackle and we ended up conceding a goal...
people will say "but hes an attacker and he shouldn't defend" but unless you are messi , ronaldo, ibra or neymar...i dont think it applies
people will say "but hes an attacker and he shouldn't defend" but unless you are messi , ronaldo, ibra or neymar...i dont think it applies
