Fabio Quagliarella (107 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dostoevsky
- Start date
I've no idea what this means.
Conte obviously prefers strikers with other attributes in most of the league matches. It's a different kind of football. That's why Vucinic always plays, because as annoying as he is, he is the best player to hold the ball and create something. He links the midfield and attack. With Quag, Matri or Giovinco, the ball comes back off them too much. That puts the midfield and defence under pressure.
Quagliarella you really want to see with a yard of space to turn and run or shoot. He's still an anomaly because he doesn't have a position you can call his own. I think his often failed partnership with Vucinic is the main reason he starts less. Also there is a tactical aspect. Conte has his strikers working to protect from the front and coming deep, so he finds himself in areas he is not particularly good in.
I think in another good team with a more open system Quagliarella would do really well, but at Juve he seems to be getting a good output from an inconsistent role.
Conte obviously prefers strikers with other attributes in most of the league matches. It's a different kind of football. That's why Vucinic always plays, because as annoying as he is, he is the best player to hold the ball and create something. He links the midfield and attack. With Quag, Matri or Giovinco, the ball comes back off them too much. That puts the midfield and defence under pressure.
Quagliarella you really want to see with a yard of space to turn and run or shoot. He's still an anomaly because he doesn't have a position you can call his own. I think his often failed partnership with Vucinic is the main reason he starts less. Also there is a tactical aspect. Conte has his strikers working to protect from the front and coming deep, so he finds himself in areas he is not particularly good in.
I think in another good team with a more open system Quagliarella would do really well, but at Juve he seems to be getting a good output from an inconsistent role.
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“I want to underline that I have never turned down offers from other clubs because I have never considered leaving Juventus,” he stated.
“The Champions League represents a dream for me. I’d always watched the competition on television before, but to be a part of it is unique.
“I’m happy with my performances and I’m always at the disposal of the Coach. I’m ready when I’m needed.
“It was a great game against Celtic,” he added. “I scored one and created the other. I’m really happy.”
I wrote an analysis of our strikers recently...of their very basic stats, which is far from a perfectly accurate measure of their potency and value to the team, but nonetheless it is of some meaning and measure...
http://juventusprimaveraandyouth.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/juventus-striker-analysis/
As an overview...updated after yesterday's game>
Vucinic
8 goals and 5 assists from 1803 minutes in Serie A and Champions league – scores a goal/assists a goal every 138 minutes. (1 goal per 225.4mins)
Giovinco
9 goals and 7 assists from 1936 minutes in Serie A and Champions league – scores a goal/assists a goal every 121 minutes.(1 goal per 215mins)
Matri
8 goals and 2 assists from 1119 minutes in Serie A and Champions league – scores a goal/assists a goal every 119 minutes. (1 goal per 140mins)
Quagliarella
11 goals and 2 assists from 1039 minutes in Serie A and Champions league – scores a goal/assists a goal every 74 minutes. (1 goal per 94 mins)
I am well aware of Mirko's value as a link man between midfield and attack. One of the problems is that he links the midfield to the midfield moving forward to become the attack, which will be predictable against the top sides we will face as we progress in the champions league. Press our three central midfielders hard and constantly, even just man for man mark them and any Mirko incorporated attack can be nullified. Both Matri and Quagliarella, regardless of their stats, can both shoot accurately and powerfully and far more consistently potently, than Mirko. I also see Matri improving at holding the ball up and laying the ball off to forward foraging midfielders. Quags has shown in the past he can play as a leading prima punta, when paired with DP under delneri, and playing with a far inferior team.
The bottom line for me is that Mirko misses far more gilt-edged chances than he puts away. We would have beaten Napoli, and several other teams, if he could shoot anywhere near as consistently accurately and powerfully as Matri or Quags. He also creates chances...apparently, many say, far more consistently than any other in the offensive department. I see less of that, and place his real output to the team equal to Giovinco, but less overall, for Sebastian's effort is much higher, and he is faster, which can help to bother defenders more readily than an average Mirko which is languid, wasteful.
Again, not on the stats, but on what I have seen, I prefer Giovinco, but see him out of position, asked to do a very different job to what he was asked to do at Parma. Seconda punta with no defensive duties, is far different to seconda punta with huge covering duties and without a prima punta next to you, higher up the pitch more often than not. Mirko plays much deeper, and far more static, leaving Giovinco to wizz around and try to be some kind of reference point. Neither player leads the line...its not in their natures. Matri can lead the line, and so can Quags to a degree...as a hybrid kinda prima punta. He was deployed very high up the pitch during that incredibly rich vein of form he had pre-injury.
http://juventusprimaveraandyouth.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/juventus-striker-analysis/
As an overview...updated after yesterday's game>
Vucinic
8 goals and 5 assists from 1803 minutes in Serie A and Champions league – scores a goal/assists a goal every 138 minutes. (1 goal per 225.4mins)
Giovinco
9 goals and 7 assists from 1936 minutes in Serie A and Champions league – scores a goal/assists a goal every 121 minutes.(1 goal per 215mins)
Matri
8 goals and 2 assists from 1119 minutes in Serie A and Champions league – scores a goal/assists a goal every 119 minutes. (1 goal per 140mins)
Quagliarella
11 goals and 2 assists from 1039 minutes in Serie A and Champions league – scores a goal/assists a goal every 74 minutes. (1 goal per 94 mins)
I am well aware of Mirko's value as a link man between midfield and attack. One of the problems is that he links the midfield to the midfield moving forward to become the attack, which will be predictable against the top sides we will face as we progress in the champions league. Press our three central midfielders hard and constantly, even just man for man mark them and any Mirko incorporated attack can be nullified. Both Matri and Quagliarella, regardless of their stats, can both shoot accurately and powerfully and far more consistently potently, than Mirko. I also see Matri improving at holding the ball up and laying the ball off to forward foraging midfielders. Quags has shown in the past he can play as a leading prima punta, when paired with DP under delneri, and playing with a far inferior team.
The bottom line for me is that Mirko misses far more gilt-edged chances than he puts away. We would have beaten Napoli, and several other teams, if he could shoot anywhere near as consistently accurately and powerfully as Matri or Quags. He also creates chances...apparently, many say, far more consistently than any other in the offensive department. I see less of that, and place his real output to the team equal to Giovinco, but less overall, for Sebastian's effort is much higher, and he is faster, which can help to bother defenders more readily than an average Mirko which is languid, wasteful.
Again, not on the stats, but on what I have seen, I prefer Giovinco, but see him out of position, asked to do a very different job to what he was asked to do at Parma. Seconda punta with no defensive duties, is far different to seconda punta with huge covering duties and without a prima punta next to you, higher up the pitch more often than not. Mirko plays much deeper, and far more static, leaving Giovinco to wizz around and try to be some kind of reference point. Neither player leads the line...its not in their natures. Matri can lead the line, and so can Quags to a degree...as a hybrid kinda prima punta. He was deployed very high up the pitch during that incredibly rich vein of form he had pre-injury.
True dat. 
Hes scoring in the league too despite his limited appearances. I think he is capable of forming an understanding with Vucinic or Gio if actually given the amount of time they get out there or as Matri has been getting off late. Simply because he has been effective.
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Came here to say something along these lines
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@baggio, your next avatar:
I love how our useless strikers are giving Conte a headache these days
It's got more to do with a stubborn attitude towards certain players in favour of others than their actual ability on the football pitch. Remember Borriello from last year? Quag was recovering from his injury plagued season, but there was nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing Borriello had done to get ahead of Matri. InFact Borriello himself was coming off injury and Conte chose to play him back into some game form instead of playing Quag and bringing him upto speed with the squad. Its so silly in hindsight coz Borriello was not retained but Quag and Matri were.
Yes, just like we had to buy Bendtner. Its not about Conte knowing or not knowing what he's doing. Sometimes, the reasoning goes beyond the tactical. Matri last season, despite doing a fairly good job up until that point was inexplicably benched in favour of Borriello. That's not to say it is above reasoning coz Conte is the one making the call.
Yes. But if you remember, Roma were up to an exchange with either of Matri or Quag for Borriello. And we didn't exchange. If Conte believed in Borriello and played him ahead of the other two then why didn't he get the player when he had the chance since he clearly didn't believe in the resources at hand?
Didnt you say in the post above that we had to buy Borriello!?
Didnt you say in the post above that we had to buy Borriello!?
I mean we had to buy him to sign him (he was on loan). We didn't have to buy him (there was no obligation/agreement).
It's hard to get Juve players to go to other teams in exchange, it's always a step down. I'm not going to start second guessing Conte, but the strikers get enough chances each. We've got four not a million miles apart, and we've done well with what Conte has chosen.
It's hard to get Juve players to go to other teams in exchange, it's always a step down. I'm not going to start second guessing Conte, but the strikers get enough chances each. We've got four not a million miles apart, and we've done well with what Conte has chosen.
On the contrary, I think our problems in attack, are more of our making, because Conte hasn't really let any pair settle. And the ones he's given the maximum time together (Vuci-Gio) are not the most compatible as a combination. In fact I'd go as far as saying they're far less compatible then other plausible combinations.
what you have failed to mention is the very obvious differences between the stats you are referencing and the goals and assists for the players we deploy as strikers.
Your example is nonsensical because the a striker scores a goal with his own feet, whilst a defender doesn't produce a clean sheet with solely his own feet. I suspect you understand this??? I will assume so. One striker can score a goal on his own. yes he needs the team to help him (most of the time). One defender cannot keep a clean sheet on his own.
A lot of supporters are actually interested in the goals and assists our strikers produce. Sure enough its by no means the only measure of a striker's potency, but they matter, not just to me, but to most supporters. How many times was Amauri's criminal stats cited as reason for the huge demand for his departure???? No need for you to jump on those posters though, eh??? I could be wrong, and you may well not care a jot for the amount of goals our strikers score or create, nor, for that matter, how many chances our strikers miss...its that profligacy that bothers me. against Napoli most recently, but it is a common problem with Vucinic and Giovinco. The statistics are...interesting. They give an impression that Quags and Matri are far more efficient at putting the ball in the net, or putting others in a position to put the ball in the net. But you are uninterested in such stats, which is fair enough...we don't all watch football for the same reasons. I just personally prefer having a striker in the starting XI who is clinical in front of goal. A trezeguet, an Inzaghi, a shearer, an ian wright...etctetctct. and it bothers me to see the team play so well, but time and time and time again, for two of our players to miss so many chances, which I would prefer to see fal to Quagliarella, or Matri, not because of the stats...they are just interesting...but because I prefer the clinical nature of the pair, and do not see Mirko and Sebastian to a lesser degree as bringing as much or more to the team. also, I have a lot of faith in out midfield, which is more than capable of linking midfield and attack. Vidal and Marchisio both love to forage forward and Pirlo is a regista of galactic class. Each to their own eh!
Your example is nonsensical because the a striker scores a goal with his own feet, whilst a defender doesn't produce a clean sheet with solely his own feet. I suspect you understand this??? I will assume so. One striker can score a goal on his own. yes he needs the team to help him (most of the time). One defender cannot keep a clean sheet on his own.
A lot of supporters are actually interested in the goals and assists our strikers produce. Sure enough its by no means the only measure of a striker's potency, but they matter, not just to me, but to most supporters. How many times was Amauri's criminal stats cited as reason for the huge demand for his departure???? No need for you to jump on those posters though, eh??? I could be wrong, and you may well not care a jot for the amount of goals our strikers score or create, nor, for that matter, how many chances our strikers miss...its that profligacy that bothers me. against Napoli most recently, but it is a common problem with Vucinic and Giovinco. The statistics are...interesting. They give an impression that Quags and Matri are far more efficient at putting the ball in the net, or putting others in a position to put the ball in the net. But you are uninterested in such stats, which is fair enough...we don't all watch football for the same reasons. I just personally prefer having a striker in the starting XI who is clinical in front of goal. A trezeguet, an Inzaghi, a shearer, an ian wright...etctetctct. and it bothers me to see the team play so well, but time and time and time again, for two of our players to miss so many chances, which I would prefer to see fal to Quagliarella, or Matri, not because of the stats...they are just interesting...but because I prefer the clinical nature of the pair, and do not see Mirko and Sebastian to a lesser degree as bringing as much or more to the team. also, I have a lot of faith in out midfield, which is more than capable of linking midfield and attack. Vidal and Marchisio both love to forage forward and Pirlo is a regista of galactic class. Each to their own eh!