Fabio Quagliarella (56 Viewers)

[Alen]

what you have failed to mention is the very obvious differences between the stats you are referencing and the goals and assists for the players we deploy as strikers.

Your example is nonsensical because the a striker scores a goal with his own feet, whilst a defender doesn't produce a clean sheet with solely his own feet. I suspect you understand this??? I will assume so. One striker can score a goal on his own. yes he needs the team to help him (most of the time). One defender cannot keep a clean sheet on his own.

A lot of supporters are actually interested in the goals and assists our strikers produce. Sure enough its by no means the only measure of a striker's potency, but they matter, not just to me, but to most supporters. How many times was Amauri's criminal stats cited as reason for the huge demand for his departure???? No need for you to jump on those posters though, eh??? I could be wrong, and you may well not care a jot for the amount of goals our strikers score or create, nor, for that matter, how many chances our strikers miss...its that profligacy that bothers me. against Napoli most recently, but it is a common problem with Vucinic and Giovinco. The statistics are...interesting. They give an impression that Quags and Matri are far more efficient at putting the ball in the net, or putting others in a position to put the ball in the net. But you are uninterested in such stats, which is fair enough...we don't all watch football for the same reasons. I just personally prefer having a striker in the starting XI who is clinical in front of goal. A trezeguet, an Inzaghi, a shearer, an ian wright...etctetctct. and it bothers me to see the team play so well, but time and time and time again, for two of our players to miss so many chances, which I would prefer to see fal to Quagliarella, or Matri, not because of the stats...they are just interesting...but because I prefer the clinical nature of the pair, and do not see Mirko and Sebastian to a lesser degree as bringing as much or more to the team. also, I have a lot of faith in out midfield, which is more than capable of linking midfield and attack. Vidal and Marchisio both love to forage forward and Pirlo is a regista of galactic class. Each to their own eh!

Indeed. Lets talk strikers then. Take Zalayeta and his goals per minute ratio. You'll realize it was better than Del Piero's, Zlatan's and Trezeguet's. There is a strong possibility that Matri and Quag would have a worse goal/assist to minute ratio if they played as much as Giovinco and Vucinic, while the latter two would have had a better ratio.

What about these statistics (serie a, cl, coppa italia, supercoppa italia):

When Giovinco-Vucinic were on the pitch 27 goals in 1055 minutes
When Giovinco-Matri were on the pitch 11 goals in 575 minutes
When Giovinco-Quag were on the pitch 8 goals in 478 minutes (6 against Pescara)
When Giovinco-Bendtner were on the pitch 4 goals in 208 minutes
With Giovinco-Anelka on the pitch 0 goals in 19 minutes
Giovinco as a lone striker 1 goal in 1 minute
---------
When Quag-Matri were on the pitch 3 goals 193 minutes
When Quag-Vucinic were on the pitch 7 goals in 345 minutes
When Quag-Bendtner were on the pitch 1 goal in 84 minutes
---------
When Vucinic-Bendtner were on the pitch 5 goals in 175 minutes
When Vucinic-Matri were on the pitch 18 goals in 548 minutes
---------
When Matri-Bendtner were on the pitch 1 goals in 17 minutes
With Matri-Anelka on the pitch 0 goals in 19 minutes
Matri as a lone striker 2 goals in 91 minutes
---------
Anelka as a lone striker 0 goals in 5 minutes


Now, lets check on those pairs which played more than 180 minutes together (more than 2 full matches). This shows how many goals the team scored when these attacking pairs were on the pitch.

Vucinic-Matri 18 goals in 548 minutes (1 goal in 30 minutes)
Giovinco-Vucinic 27 goals in 1055 minutes (1 goal in 39 minutes)
Quag-Vucinic 7 goals in 345 minutes (1 goal in 49 minutes)
Giovinco-Bendtner 4 goals in 208 minutes (1 goal in 52 minutes)
Giovinco-Matri 11 goals in 575 minutes (1 goal in 52 minutes)
Giovinco-Quag 8 goals in 478 minutes (6 against Pescara. Without that match it's 2 goals in 388 minutes) (1 goal in 59 minutes)
Quag-Matri 3 goals 193 minutes (1 goal in 64 minutes)

HOLY MOLY LO-PAN. It looks like the team scores the most and most often only when Vucinic plays! Now what is more important, the team to score more or the strikers to score more?

 

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[delpiero4life]

Rotation is working for now. I don't rate Gio and vuci together though.

 

[Lo-Pan]

Indeed. Lets talk strikers then. Take Zalayeta and his goals per minute ratio. You'll realize it was better than Del Piero's, Zlatan's and Trezeguet's. There is a strong possibility that Matri and Quag would have a worse goal/assist to minute ratio if they played as much as Giovinco and Vucinic, while the latter two would have had a better ratio.

What about these statistics (serie a, cl, coppa italia, supercoppa italia):

When Giovinco-Vucinic were on the pitch 27 goals in 1055 minutes
When Giovinco-Matri were on the pitch 11 goals in 575 minutes
When Giovinco-Quag were on the pitch 8 goals in 478 minutes (6 against Pescara)
When Giovinco-Bendtner were on the pitch 4 goals in 208 minutes
With Giovinco-Anelka on the pitch 0 goals in 19 minutes
Giovinco as a lone striker 1 goal in 1 minute
---------
When Quag-Matri were on the pitch 3 goals 193 minutes
When Quag-Vucinic were on the pitch 7 goals in 345 minutes
When Quag-Bendtner were on the pitch 1 goal in 84 minutes
---------
When Vucinic-Bendtner were on the pitch 5 goals in 175 minutes
When Vucinic-Matri were on the pitch 18 goals in 548 minutes
---------
When Matri-Bendtner were on the pitch 1 goals in 17 minutes
With Matri-Anelka on the pitch 0 goals in 19 minutes
Matri as a lone striker 2 goals in 91 minutes
---------
Anelka as a lone striker 0 goals in 5 minutes


Now, lets check on those pairs which played more than 180 minutes together (more than 2 full matches). This shows how many goals the team scored when these attacking pairs were on the pitch.

Vucinic-Matri 18 goals in 548 minutes (1 goal in 30 minutes)
Giovinco-Vucinic 27 goals in 1055 minutes (1 goal in 39 minutes)
Quag-Vucinic 7 goals in 345 minutes (1 goal in 49 minutes)
Giovinco-Bendtner 4 goals in 208 minutes (1 goal in 52 minutes)
Giovinco-Matri 11 goals in 575 minutes (1 goal in 52 minutes)
Giovinco-Quag 8 goals in 478 minutes (6 against Pescara. Without that match it's 2 goals in 388 minutes) (1 goal in 59 minutes)
Quag-Matri 3 goals 193 minutes (1 goal in 64 minutes)

HOLY MOLY LO-PAN. It looks like the team scores the most and most often only when Vucinic plays! Now what is more important, the team to score more or the strikers to score more?

debate with you is too pontlessly barbed...but I appreciate the stats, and will likely make use of the research for discussion with other juventini who have an interest in such things and enjoy debating with civility and enjoyment of rubbing virtual shoulders with their fellow supporters, rather than aiming to be as abrasive as possible, at every juncture, like yourself. But sincerely...cheers for the stats. sunshine and the the shallows of Port Phillip Bay beckon presently, but I will peruse and ponder them when darkness comes.

(NB. coppa italia games were of little use to me for Conte never picks the strongest team...and essentially, my hope and eagerness is for Quags and Matri to be given that chance, to prove their worth or lack of worth. )

 

[Alen]

debate with you is too pontlessly barbed...but I appreciate the stats, and will likely make use of the research for discussion with other juventini who have an interest in such things and enjoy debating with civility and enjoyment of rubbing virtual shoulders with their fellow supporters, rather than aiming to be as abrasive as possible, at every juncture, like yourself. But sincerely...cheers for the stats. sunshine and the the shallows of Port Phillip Bay beckon presently, but I will peruse and ponder them when darkness comes.

(NB. coppa italia games were of little use to me for Conte never picks the strongest team...and essentially, my hope and eagerness is for Quags and Matri to be given that chance, to prove their worth or lack of worth. )

Hmmm, your main point in your original post was how all three forwards would be of better use than Vucinic against the top teams. First you included some stats to make the point that followed stronger (because, the stats are "of some meaning and measure"). And most of what you said was based on the assumption that we will become very predictable when the midfield becomes an attack with Mirko's link up play, which is nothing more but an assumption. Show me one example when this became predictable. If your answer is that we haven't played top teams yet, then what you're saying is indeed a baseless assumption. From what we can all see with a bare eye, and what my stats above picture perfectly, is that Mirko provides that link between the midfield and attack, and the team, especially the midfield, scores much more that way. We as a team create more and we are more dangerous with Vucinic in the team. That would be the main reason why Conte insists on playing him. And while lots of the things you said in your original post were correct, the conclusion was not proven right until now and, like I said, is only an assumption.

Plus, in your analysis you failed to take into consideration a Matri-Vucinic partnership. For two seasons in a row we're most lethal when those two are placed together, which, taking the characteristics of all our strikers, is the partnership that provides the best balance.

 

[Vinny Del Pogba]

 

[Alen]

And since we're in Quag's thread...food for thought.

When Vucinic is paired with:
1. Matri... Juve score 1 goal in 30 minutes
2. Giovinco...1 goal in 39 minutes
3. Quag...1 goal in 49 minutes

When Giovinco is paired with:
1. Vucinic... Juve score 1 goal in 39 minutes
2. Matri... 1 goal in 52 minutes
3. Quag... 1 goal in 59 minutes (excluding the Pescara game, it's 1 goal in 194 minutes)

When Matri is paired with:
1. Vucinic... Juve score 1 goal in 30 minutes
2. Giovinco... 1 goal in 52 minutes
3. Quag... 1 goal in 64 minutes

Could be a coincidence, but it most probably isn't.

 

[Nzoric]

@baggio @Goodfella

 

[TrezJuve]

Alen

 

[Zé Tahir]

@Haters

 

[ZoSo]

And since we're in Quag's thread...food for thought.

When Vucinic is paired with:
1. Matri... Juve score 1 goal in 30 minutes
2. Giovinco...1 goal in 39 minutes
3. Quag...1 goal in 49 minutes

When Giovinco is paired with:
1. Vucinic... Juve score 1 goal in 39 minutes
2. Matri... 1 goal in 52 minutes
3. Quag... 1 goal in 59 minutes (excluding the Pescara game, it's 1 goal in 194 minutes)

When Matri is paired with:
1. Vucinic... Juve score 1 goal in 30 minutes
2. Giovinco... 1 goal in 52 minutes
3. Quag... 1 goal in 64 minutes

Could be a coincidence, but it most probably isn't.

Quag has the lowest minutes per goal.

 

[Lo-Pan]

Hmmm, your main point in your original post was how all three forwards would be of better use than Vucinic against the top teams. First you included some stats to make the point that followed stronger (because, the stats are "of some meaning and measure"). And most of what you said was based on the assumption that we will become very predictable when the midfield becomes an attack with Mirko's link up play, which is nothing more but an assumption. Show me one example when this became predictable. If your answer is that we haven't played top teams yet, then what you're saying is indeed a baseless assumption. From what we can all see with a bare eye, and what my stats above picture perfectly, is that Mirko provides that link between the midfield and attack, and the team, especially the midfield, scores much more that way. We as a team create more and we are more dangerous with Vucinic in the team. That would be the main reason why Conte insists on playing him. And while lots of the things you said in your original post were correct, the conclusion was not proven right until now and, like I said, is only an assumption.

Plus, in your analysis you failed to take into consideration a Matri-Vucinic partnership. For two seasons in a row we're most lethal when those two are placed together, which, taking the characteristics of all our strikers, is the partnership that provides the best balance.

My main point was and remains that I prefer to see us play with a clinical striker in the starting XI. The stats are...as I have mentioned several times...interesting. Not in any way the sole basis from which I campaign for Quagliarella to be used more frequently. Your stats are as interesting as the individual player stats of assists and goals I posted originally, offering more depth, but still, just suggestive rather than conclusive information. They do not prove anything, unless you are to list the whole team including substitutes and times of the goals and which XI was on the field when we scored the goals and who was included in the passing move and who dragged defenders away and all players had played the same amount of time etctetctetctct...the stats alone are not at all absolute proof, as you suggest. Would the stats be the same if Quagliarella had been given as many opportunities as Vucinic??? You simply cannot say. Because he hasn't. We can guess, and assume...and debate...hopefully in your case with a bit more civility if possible. My own position is basically that I feel we would be a stronger, more clinical team if we played at least one of Matri/Quagliarella, preferably both, for I feel they bring more to the team than Vucinic and Giovinco. Its my view, not a statement based in stats.

 

[baggio]

And since we're in Quag's thread...food for thought.

When Vucinic is paired with:
1. Matri... Juve score 1 goal in 30 minutes
2. Giovinco...1 goal in 39 minutes
3. Quag...1 goal in 49 minutes

When Giovinco is paired with:
1. Vucinic... Juve score 1 goal in 39 minutes
2. Matri... 1 goal in 52 minutes
3. Quag... 1 goal in 59 minutes (excluding the Pescara game, it's 1 goal in 194 minutes)

When Matri is paired with:
1. Vucinic... Juve score 1 goal in 30 minutes
2. Giovinco... 1 goal in 52 minutes
3. Quag... 1 goal in 64 minutes

Could be a coincidence, but it most probably isn't.

Coincidence or lack of continuity? Those stats would be better substantiated if we had seen Quag get more minutes than he currently has. For eg. When you pair him with Matri, and he scores 1 goal in 64 minutes, doesn't that have something to do with the fact that they have actually paired only once this season? What these stats cannot present is the lack of time those pairings have had to understand each other and actually settle. Those numbers one would notice are probably the result of also being used least with each of those partners. If anything, despite that, the player has shown to have a fairly clinical presence on the field when you translate these stats into a goal/minutes strike ratio. We'll never know how much better or worse these combos would be if they weren't given enough time in.

- - - Updated - - -

@baggio @Goodfella

@Nzoric. Top scoring forward. Eat your heart out baby.

- - - Updated - - -

Amazing pic.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

Q > Matri

 

[Osman]

And since we're in Quag's thread...food for thought.

When Vucinic is paired with:
1. Matri... Juve score 1 goal in 30 minutes
2. Giovinco...1 goal in 39 minutes
3. Quag...1 goal in 49 minutes

When Giovinco is paired with:
1. Vucinic... Juve score 1 goal in 39 minutes
2. Matri... 1 goal in 52 minutes
3. Quag... 1 goal in 59 minutes (excluding the Pescara game, it's 1 goal in 194 minutes)

When Matri is paired with:
1. Vucinic... Juve score 1 goal in 30 minutes
2. Giovinco... 1 goal in 52 minutes
3. Quag... 1 goal in 64 minutes

Could be a coincidence, but it most probably isn't.

Appriciate your stats, allways, but in this didnt need them to know this. I thought it was fairly obvious this the main reason Quag has been benched/not gotten trust, he has visibly been the one who has had the least cohesion with any of the attackers and most limited at finding common patterns with the others (despite the little time yes, though the others gelled more easily together in little time too earlier in the season), that it has lead to being benched even when he has been on scoring mood.

 

[baggio]

Appriciate your stats, allways, but in this didnt need them to know this. I thought it was fairly obvious this the main reason Quag has been benched/not gotten trust, he has visibly been the one who has had the least cohesion with any of the attackers and most limited at finding common patterns with the others (despite the little time yes, though the others gelled more easily together in little time too earlier in the season), that it has lead to being benched even when he has been on scoring mood.

That is what is debatable. We play a combination that is neither clinical nor cohesive as a partnership, so it kind of negates the whole point. I'd rather we play less cohesive partnerships if we can have more clinical players on the field. And even still I think Vucinic-Matri and Vucinic-Quag are combos that have deserved more time on the pitch together than they've actually gotten. What kind of stats do you think Quag-Vucinuc would throw up as a pairing if Conte had shown the kind of faith he has shown in Gio-Vucinic who have done nothing to convince anyone that they are a plausible combo?? With all those extra minutes and understanding do you think a Quag-Vucinic pairing would be worse than a Vucinic-Gio pairing? I doubt it.

 

[JuveJay]

Appriciate your stats, allways, but in this didnt need them to know this. I thought it was fairly obvious this the main reason Quag has been benched/not gotten trust, he has visibly been the one who has had the least cohesion with any of the attackers and most limited at finding common patterns with the others (despite the little time yes, though the others gelled more easily together in little time too earlier in the season), that it has lead to being benched even when he has been on scoring mood.

This seems pretty obvious to me. You can see it in the games, numbers are a different thing. That Quag still has a good goal ratio is testament to his ability as a striker.

 

[Nzoric]

Coincidence or lack of continuity? Those stats would be better substantiated if we had seen Quag get more minutes than he currently has. For eg. When you pair him with Matri, and he scores 1 goal in 64 minutes, doesn't that have something to do with the fact that they have actually paired only once this season? What these stats cannot present is the lack of time those pairings have had to understand each other and actually settle. Those numbers one would notice are probably the result of also being used least with each of those partners. If anything, despite that, the player has shown to have a fairly clinical presence on the field when you translate these stats into a goal/minutes strike ratio. We'll never know how much better or worse these combos would be if they weren't given enough time in.

Okay, I just stopped taking you seriously

Have fun in here, you goddamn psycho

 

[ZoSo]

 

[baggio]

Okay, I just stopped taking you seriously

Have fun in here, you goddamn psycho

Lay off Quag. :ferocious: :ferocious: :ferocious:

 

[Nzoric]

Lay off Quag. :ferocious: :ferocious: :ferocious:

I'm hardly in here man .