Fabio Paratici (28 Viewers)

[kappa96]

I wouldn't say plenty. Only the top top clubs in my opinion. He was well settled in Turin with his family, earning good cash, playing for trophies, already 30yo, why would he move to a random club? And what other top top club with top top money would like a burnt out Pjanic?

People had unrealistic expectation out of his transfer thinking that after a season like pjanic had he could fetch 20 mil.
He wasn't a starter for juve and he isn't a starter for barcelona . He would have probably left for free a la matuidi , if this chance wouldn't arise.
Also how many second rate teams could afford pjanic salary . Google says he was on 6.5 mil. a year.
Now arthur could come good , we just have to wait and see.

 

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[Robee]

Just kicked the problem down the road though with an even more expensive deal for FFP. We now incur more of a hit for the next 5 years (around 10m a year) plus will likely have a minusvalenza if we sell Arthur. If we don't we are stuck with 5.5m a year for a guy who has been a flop so far.

Did we even need the deal for FFP this year? I'm pretty sure uefa had made it less onerous.

Yes, it was kicked down the road. And yes, because it had to be. Nobody would've bought our deadweight in the midst of the covid crisis.

 

[MikeM]

I think Paratici views Arthur as a long-term core piece so he was happy to inflate the figures.

In reality, we should have probably cut the money in half (30M Pjanic, 40M Arthur) and Arthur would be a lot easier to re-sell.

 

[Boksic]

You think Pjanic couldn't be sold for 20m an would have left for free like Matuidi, seriously? That is crazy, he has a bad 2nd half of the season in a poor Juve side. He is only 30 and been a top player for us up until the start of 2020. This isn't a washed up player like Khedira. Many people were claiming he was amongst the best in the world at the start of last season.

He was absolutely a starter for Juve and of course decent teams would have been willing to go for him.

I can see why we cashed in on him but to class him in the same level and stage of his career as Matuidi is nonsense.

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Yes, it was kicked down the road. And yes, because it had to be. Nobody would've bought our deadweight in the midst of the covid crisis.

Why did it have to be? FFP rules changed this season. We seemed willing to buy Barca's deadweight.

 

[kappa96]

Yes, it was kicked down the road. And yes, because it had to be. Nobody would've bought our deadweight in the midst of the covid crisis.

For @Boksic
Anything above 25 milion for Arthur is a profit for us, probably.

So where was the offers, for him, because it was obvious that we wanted to sell?

I doubt his agent didn't try to talk to other teams as no agent is that dumb to put all his chips on a single move.

Tell me some teams who would have payed 20 million for Pjanic, and why they didn't try to hijack the deal if he was that sought after.

It's like dybala all over again, everyone says he is 80 or 90 or 100, but your value is actually the most you can get on the market, not what you and I think it is

Also you can exclude the PL teams as most big teams have a policy against signing over 30 year olds

It wasn't kicked down the road. That's just FFP talk.
Simple matematics state that if you buy someone for 82 and you sell someone for 60 you incur a net loss of - 22 in any scenario be it 3 4 5 years. Now we know that Pjanic had a 6.5 mil. and Arthur Melo has 5.5 million, we potentially save 5 mil. from salary, a part probably going to his agent.
So it's safe to say that if we sell Arthur for anything above 23 and 25 we make a profit.

 

[LiquidPLP]

You think Pjanic couldn't be sold for 20m an would have left for free like Matuidi, seriously? That is crazy, he has a bad 2nd half of the season in a poor Juve side. He is only 30 and been a top player for us up until the start of 2020. This isn't a washed up player like Khedira. Many people were claiming he was amongst the best in the world at the start of last season.

He was absolutely a starter for Juve and of course decent teams would have been willing to go for him.

I can see why we cashed in on him but to class him in the same level and stage of his career as Matuidi is nonsense.

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Why did it have to be? FFP rules changed this season. We seemed willing to buy Barca's deadweight.

You're forgetting one thing though: he wanted only Barca and they were (still are) broke.

Also, as mentioned above, EPL clubs don't spend top money on 30+ yo players. So another option was to swap him for Paredes I guess. Lol.

 

[The Quazis]

You think Pjanic couldn't be sold for 20m an would have left for free like Matuidi, seriously? That is crazy, he has a bad 2nd half of the season in a poor Juve side. He is only 30 and been a top player for us up until the start of 2020. This isn't a washed up player like Khedira. Many people were claiming he was amongst the best in the world at the start of last season.

He was absolutely a starter for Juve and of course decent teams would have been willing to go for him.

I can see why we cashed in on him but to class him in the same level and stage of his career as Matuidi is nonsense.

In my opinion Pjanic's last good season with us was in 2017, the Cardiff one. Later on he had only glimpses of a good form.

Your description of him reminds me of Higuain . We all thought we could sell him easily for decent cash after two great seasons he had with us but we all know how it ended .

 

[Boksic]

In my opinion Pjanic was a very good player up until Sarri took over Juve. The first few months under Sarri he was excellent then turned terrible. He scored five goals and assisted 8 the very next season after Cardiff. I think people have very short term memories with our players and seem to want to write them off after the first bad game regardless of what they have done before.

The comparisons with Higuain and Matuidi are laughable, they are in completely different phases of their career. Higuain had checked out mentally and physically and Matuidi was winding down, both have gone to a league where players from Europe end their careers. Pjanic has gone to one of the biggest clubs in the world in a top league.

I refuse to believe that the only possible deal in world football we could do was to swap Pjanic for Arthur. But no point going round in circles and I'm happy to agree to disagree.

 

[Juve_newbie]

I refuse to believe that the only possible deal in world football we could do was to swap Pjanic for Arthur. But no point going round in circles and I'm happy to agree to disagree.

Pjanic-Arthur deal is a must, and only one possible. Apart from Barca, the only club Pjanic have linked with last summer is PSG, and they are also broke as f. Last summer PSG must use their transfer budget to fullfill their obligation to buy Icardi. Do you really think they will spend another 30M for Pjanic, I don't think so. So instead of Arthur, we get a swap with Parades. who is even more underwhelming. At least Arthur is 24, has very good reputation, and have some good quality like avoid pressing. After 3 years, if he isn't outstanding, we still can offload him and get some money back.

And financial thing is also a factor. Since Parades's value is not so high, we can not inflate the deal too much to avoid any investigation. So we get less money for the financial book., and at that pandemie time, it is even more important.

 

[lgorTudor]

strada per la tutta famiglia

 

[Claudio Gentile]

In my opinion Pjanic was a very good player up until Sarri took over Juve. The first few months under Sarri he was excellent then turned terrible. He scored five goals and assisted 8 the very next season after Cardiff. I think people have very short term memories with our players and seem to want to write them off after the first bad game regardless of what they have done before.

The comparisons with Higuain and Matuidi are laughable, they are in completely different phases of their career. Higuain had checked out mentally and physically and Matuidi was winding down, both have gone to a league where players from Europe end their careers. Pjanic has gone to one of the biggest clubs in the world in a top league.

I refuse to believe that the only possible deal in world football we could do was to swap Pjanic for Arthur. But no point going round in circles and I'm happy to agree to disagree.

What the hell has panic done for Barca?

 

[s4tch]

Bro we been over this.
If pjanic goes for 60 and arthur comes for 72+10 , it doesn't matter. In the end only the salary component to round the numbers and bonuses matters
In the end it is 60 coming in regardles of years and 72 + 10 going out regardless of time.
The only component that changes is salary and bonuses that were negociated in the contract.
Yeah i know what you say that you have to calculate amortisation and other financial aspect ,but that's just for the books and for FFP.
Incoming and outgoing are still fix sums regardless if they are spread out in more or less years.

I was wrong in stating that it was only pjanic + 12 . I didn't know there were another 10 mil. in bonuses.

not only salary and bonuses matter. it's not your 3rd division east european club ran by the local oligarch, juve is a public, global company. everything matters, including books, and those are heavily influenced by amortization. timing also matters, that's the main point why it was a win-win deal under the current financial circumstances.

anyway, bottom line is that it's not only those 12m + bonuses that make a difference. amortization can't and shouldn't be ignored for any serious company. arthur is a 80m player in the books, regardless of the cash flow involved.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

arthur is a 80m player.

Yikes!

 

[kappa96]

not only salary and bonuses matter. it's not your 3rd division east european club ran by the local oligarch, juve is a public, global company. everything matters, including books, and those are heavily influenced by amortization. timing also matters, that's the main point why it was a win-win deal under the current financial circumstances.

anyway, bottom line is that it's not only those 12m + bonuses that make a difference. amortization can't and shouldn't be ignored for any serious company. arthur is a 80m player in the books, regardless of the cash flow involved.

Yeah but I don't work for juventus as an economist.
I only know basic economy where 82 million> 60 million => - 22 milion balance on the transaction.

The ffp characteristics and financial gymnastics are other people's jobs.

Also I saw that you convinently left out where Pjanic is +60 million on our books, like the incoming cash flow doesn't matter, only the outgoing matters?
Why do that? Why aren't you correlating the transfers?

The core fact remains we incur - 22 million on the transaction and I suppose you agree that if we sell Arthur for more than 23 to 25 million we stand to make a PROFIT on said transaction, ultimately the core of any business.

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Yikes!

Arthur is not a 80 million player.

Arthur is Pjanic + 22 million. You can insert whatever value you want for Pjanic.

I for one value Pjanic between 10 to 15 so for me Arthur is no more than 37.

For example, You can value him (Pjanic) at 100 and then Arthur is 122 million, if you want.

And before anyone says "but he appears - 82 on the books", that is because Pjanic appears +60 on said books. The transfers are correlated between them.
You can't have one without the other.

Another example is cancelo where his value is Danilo + 28 million.
Now you can insert whatever value you want for Danilo but the core transaction remains.
Also selling Danilo for more then 15 million would probably mean a PROFIT on said transaction as cancelo was bought for 40 million.

Now if you wanna make Paratici look bad you would say that Arthur is a 82 million player and we sold Cancelo for only 28 million neglecting the sales or value of other players that are tied to said transactions.

 

[s4tch]

...I suppose you agree that if we sell Arthur for more than 23 to 25 million we stand to make a PROFIT on said transaction, ultimately the core of any business.

that's completely wrong mate. you can't base your valuation on cash flow only. forget the cash flow, just forget it.

it wasn't a barter. it was two separate deals: pjanic was sold for 60m (and that revenue is already accounted in the previous, already closed financial year, done deal, we can already forget it, has ZERO influence on current books), while arthur was bought for 72m + bonuses. i repeat: two separate deals, two separate contracts on paper. that's how accounting works. it's not gymnastics, it's basic accounting. we've been through this in the romero thread already. you can't ignore the contracts, in fact, that's the only thing that matters when it comes to player valuation.

i don't want to completely derail the thread and discuss in details how profit is calculated, just a short remark:

those marked are the two lines that matter the most when it comes to profit calculation and the squad's costs. arthur's amortization is based on the 72m (+eventual bonuses) contractual value, that is the important number when calculating profit/loss, not some "$$$ we paid over pjanic" nonsense.

 

[kappa96]

that's completely wrong mate. you can't base your valuation on cash flow only. forget the cash flow, just forget it.

it wasn't a barter. it was two separate deals: pjanic was sold for 60m (and that revenue is already accounted in the previous, already closed financial year, done deal, we can already forget it, has ZERO influence on current books), while arthur was bought for 72m + bonuses. i repeat: two separate deals, two separate contracts on paper. that's how accounting works. it's not gymnastics, it's basic accounting. we've been through this in the romero thread already. you can't ignore the contracts, in fact, that's the only thing that matters when it comes to player valuation.

i don't want to completely derail the thread and discuss in details how profit is calculated, just a short remark:

those marked are the two lines that matter the most when it comes to profit calculation and the squad's costs. arthur's amortization is based on the 72m (+eventual bonuses) contractual value, not on some "$$$ we paid over pjanic" nonsense.

Bro I don't want to derail it either. I don't care about the books.
I only know that those are fixed sums. There is nothing that changes

We got 60 million + contract of Pjanic with bonuses and all that going out.

We got 82 million + contract and bonuses + agent fees going in.

After we can talk about yers on said contracts.
I don't know how more Pjanic had and how long Arthur signed, but even if Arthur has a longer contract, he still plays for the club and he is still an asset for said club with the potential to turn a profit anytime during his period of his contract.

Now you tell me what numbers do change in the grand scheme of things?

Is Arthur transfer + contract + agent fee going to cost more as time goes one, like besides those numbers we gonna incur extra payments?

The answer is clearly no, unless we extend his contract upward(loss) or downward(profit).

These are fixed summs regardless of how they look in the books and the time we have him on our books.

Why aren't you calculating costs and benefits on a one transaction basis and tell me where I am wrong in my calculations?

Do you mean to say that since both deals are separated, we would have signed Arthur for 82 million, regardless of Pjanic sale?

Also you convinently forgot to circle in your image of income statement the part of

"Revenue for players registration rights" - 172 million.
How would 172 - 60(from Pjanic look like)/divided by the number of installments.
You can circle that also.

Or the "player wages and staff salaries" since Pjanic had a 1 million extra of salary that would have looked like 260 million 273 thousand.
Right?

 

[Bianconero81]

Tootise can do no wrong.

All hail Lord Tootsie Da Almighty

 

[Monty]

Lord Paratici

 

[Strickland]

Huge chunk?
The guy was like 12 million.
Pjanic + 12 = Arthur

Looking at it this way Higuan also cost only 12m, as the rest was covered by Pogba sale lol

 

[kappa96]

Looking at it this way Higuan also cost only 12m, as the rest was covered by Pogba sale lol

Hmmm since when was the coming of higuain conditioned by the sale of pogba.
If I recall pogba went to man utd not Napoli.

But the coming of Arthur is conditioned by the sale of Pjanic, or you think Juve would have payed 82 million for Arthur without selling Pjanic?

The negotiations went probably this way.
Barca asked 30 + Pjanic
Juve offered 15 +Pjanic
And both clubs settled at 22 + Pjanic, for Arthur.
After they discussed how much they need to overinflate their prices for ffp reasons.

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Tootise can do no wrong.

All hail Lord Tootsie Da Almighty

Paratici does plenty of wrong himself but the way some posters provide only contextual proof for some of his alleged wrongs is laughable.