Fabio Paratici (47 Viewers)

[MikeM]

We are not even 1 man short in the FB. We currently have 4 for two position, which should be enough. If we can’t suvive playing SPAL at home with Matuidi, Berna or some U23 player as LB, then we have some serious issues.

Well then we are short for wingers, if Cuadrado is a fullback. Because the coach we hired decided Bernardeschi is a "specialized midfielder" instead of a winger. Which I agree with btw, but how do you not figure this out months before? I think the synergy with the coach has always been a problem, even with Allegri. Maybe even especially. The buying and selling, in a vacuum, has been fine.

But how do you not have such simple conversations?

"Coach, what is your formation?"

"4-3-3"

"Ok, who are the 4 wingers?"

"Ronaldo, Costa, Cuadrado"

"And Berna?"

"Midfield"

"Ok, I'll buy another winger instead of a holding mid so you don't have to scrap your whole ethos because ONE winger got hurt".

---

"Oh and who are the 4 fullbacks?"

"Danilo, Alex Sandro, MDS and Cuadrado"

"Cuadrado again?"

"Well, I have no one else."

"Try Emre Can there."

"No. In fact, he's not even going to be on the UCL list. You should just sell him and use the money to fill out the other weak spots."

"Ok.".

 

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[X Æ A-12]

#marketopportunities

 

[pavluska]

Well then we are short for wingers, if Cuadrado is a fullback. Because the coach we hired decided Bernardeschi is a "specialized midfielder" instead of a winger. Which I agree with btw, but how do you not figure this out months before? I think the synergy with the coach has always been a problem, even with Allegri. Maybe even especially. The buying and selling, in a vacuum, has been fine.

But how do you not have such simple conversations?

"Coach, what is your formation?"

"4-3-3"

"Ok, who are the 4 wingers?"

"Ronaldo, Costa, Cuadrado"

"And Berna?"

"Midfield"

"Ok, I'll buy another winger instead of a holding mid so you don't have to scrap your whole ethos because ONE winger got hurt".

---

"Oh and who are the 4 fullbacks?"

"Danilo, Alex Sandro, MDS and Cuadrado"

"Cuadrado again?"

"Well, I have no one else."

"Try Emre Can there."

"No. In fact, he's not even going to be on the UCL list. You should just sell him and use the money to fill out the other weak spots."

"Ok.".

Sarri only recently began coaching Juve and Berna. Berna-CM comment is recent news after playing him as a winger in preseason and early games.

 

[MikeM]

Sarri only recently began coaching Juve and Berna. Berna-CM comment is recent news after playing him as a winger in preseason and early games.

Even with that benefit of the doubt:

Wingers: Ronaldo, Costa, Berna, Cuadrado

Fullbacks: Danilo, MDS, Sandro, Cuadrado

There should be another fullback or another winger. Especially with Can and Mario being complete surplus to requirements.

 

[pavluska]

Even with that benefit of the doubt:

Wingers: Ronaldo, Costa, Berna, Cuadrado

Fullbacks: Danilo, MDS, Sandro, Cuadrado

There should be another fullback or another winger. Especially with Can and Mario being complete surplus to requirements.

Ronaldo isnt a traditional winger. As you can see, he's replaced by a striker.

We've 6 attackers for 3 spots with one playing a dual role. Plus an alt formation that requires only two attackers. Don't see much wrong there.

DC, Berna, Cuadra are all for RW only pretty much and not LW.

 

[dolph]

Well then we are short for wingers, if Cuadrado is a fullback. Because the coach we hired decided Bernardeschi is a "specialized midfielder" instead of a winger. Which I agree with btw, but how do you not figure this out months before? I think the synergy with the coach has always been a problem, even with Allegri. Maybe even especially. The buying and selling, in a vacuum, has been fine.

But how do you not have such simple conversations?

"Coach, what is your formation?"

"4-3-3"

"Ok, who are the 4 wingers?"

"Ronaldo, Costa, Cuadrado"

"And Berna?"

"Midfield"

"Ok, I'll buy another winger instead of a holding mid so you don't have to scrap your whole ethos because ONE winger got hurt".

---

"Oh and who are the 4 fullbacks?"

"Danilo, Alex Sandro, MDS and Cuadrado"

"Cuadrado again?"

"Well, I have no one else."

"Try Emre Can there."

"No. In fact, he's not even going to be on the UCL list. You should just sell him and use the money to fill out the other weak spots."

"Ok.".

In general I agree with you about the lack of synergie between the coach and the management. It was like that under Conte, Allegri and now Sarri and I dont think it will change anytime soon. To be fair to Paratici I think that Sarri, thought of Berna as a wide player, but after seeing his lack of ability in that position up close and personnel I think he changed his mind.
I dont have a problem with having 4 fullbacks and 4 wingers, were one of the wingers is both a fullback and a winger. Having three starting quality wingers that could be starters and an extra in Cuadrado to cover in a few games should be enough. The problem this year is with the quality of the personnel in those position and not with the numbers.
For example I would have been fine with Ronaldo, Costa, Chiesa, Cuadrado, AS, MDS and Cancelo.
In general I think we focus way to much on having a quality 5 choice CB, 5 choice FB or 3 choice CF, instead of focusing on having starter material among the first 16-17 players, some players who are able to play multiple positions and some fringe players who could offer backup in emergency situations.

 

[MikeM]

Ronaldo isnt a traditional winger. As you can see, he's replaced by a striker.

We've 6 attackers for 3 spots with one playing a dual role. Plus an alt formation that requires only two attackers. Don't see much wrong there.

DC, Berna, Cuadra are all for RW only pretty much and not LW.

Well we don't know for sure how Sarri would choose to replace Ronaldo because there are no winger options. In that sense, it makes more sense to use Higuain/Dybala together. Of course, it might make sense to use those two together anyway instead of winger-Higuain-winger.

I think the first match after Costa's injury, he used Cuadrado there. Obviously to balance the formation because of the 4-4-2 defensive shape. And possibly he would prefer Cuadrado there every match, but now he has to play fullback.

Which is why I think it's unavoidable to have 2 for every position.

 

[X Æ A-12]

we may lack depth in wingers but the club has more than enough attackers so if an injury happens its up to the coach to cobble together a frankenstein lineup from the remaining

Or at least thats our managements philosophy which begs the question why in the fuck did we replace Max "38 games 38 lineups" Allegri with Maurizio "11+3" Sarri

 

[dolph]

we may lack depth in wingers but the club has more than enough attackers so if an injury happens its up to the coach to cobble together a frankenstein lineup from the remaining

Or at least thats our managements philosophy which begs the question why in the fuck did we replace Max "38 games 38 lineups" Allegri with Maurizio "11+3" Sarri

Maybe because he have other qualities that the management like, and that the team under Max, looked bad for two seasons straight so it was time for a change anyway.

 

[Alin]

Maybe because he have other qualities that the management like, and that the team under Max, looked bad for two seasons straight so it was time for a change anyway.

Honestly now, what does your answear have to do with the question/fact that we replaced a tactically versatile coach known for his game by game rotation with another which is widely known for the exact opposite? All this while we have ~20 players who want,demand and some of which perhaps even deserve consistent playing time.


I agree however that a change was perhaps needed and the management wanted to try something new, but to hide this very fact behind the option that Sarri is as if he was the only option at the time is kind of short-sighted(to not say bullcrap-sighted). There’s absolutely no question or debate if this current 19/20 roaster was more suited to Allegri.. what the real dilemma here is why assamble and hold on to an Allegriesque’ squad and then appoint Sarri when clearly your idea is to change everything starting from the basics?

The confusion and questions surrounding the club at the beggining of this season are absolutely warranted tbh and ironically, at least for now, Sarri is hardly to blame for it, it’s still early and realistically still has time to adapt/adjust to what it’s being asked of him here and only time can tell how he will fare but the only legit point here still stands, that we could have avoided going into this transitioning position when there are missing pieces(or in our case extra misshaped pieces) to the puzzle.

 

[rainhard]

We need 2 more Cuadrados it will be better if they both can play anywhere on any side



Sent from my SM-A910F using Tapatalk

 

[dolph]

Honestly now, what does your answear have to do with the question/fact that we replaced a tactically versatile coach known for his game by game rotation with another which is widely known for the exact opposite? All this while we have ~20 players who want,demand and some of which perhaps even deserve consistent playing time.


I agree however that a change was perhaps needed and the management wanted to try something new, but to hide this very fact behind the option that Sarri is as if he was the only option at the time is kind of short-sighted(to not say bullcrap-sighted). There’s absolutely no question or debate if this current 19/20 roaster was more suited to Allegri.. what the real dilemma here is why assamble and hold on to an Allegriesque’ squad and then appoint Sarri when clearly your idea is to change everything starting from the basics?

The confusion and questions surrounding the club at the beggining of this season are absolutely warranted tbh and ironically, at least for now, Sarri is hardly to blame for it, it’s still early and realistically still has time to adapt/adjust to what it’s being asked of him here and only time can tell how he will fare but the only legit point here still stands, that we could have avoided going into this transitioning position when there are missing pieces(or in our case extra misshaped pieces) to the puzzle.

The answer to why we changed Allegri with Sarri, is that Allegri needed to go, and Sarri was the best option available.
And I think the narative about Sarri not being willing to adapt and rotate is greatly exaggerated. He was willing to rotate in Chelsea and so far he’s been willing to rotate here. He has played a 4-3-1-2, 4-4-2, 4-3-3 depending on the personnel.
He has been quite pragmatic in he’s approach here so far.
I dont agree that the squad is better suited for Allegri either, but I guess we will see after the season if I am right or not.

 

[Alin]

The answer to why we changed Allegri with Sarri, is that Allegri needed to go, and Sarri was the best option available.
And I think the narative about Sarri not being willing to adapt and rotate is greatly exaggerated. He was willing to rotate in Chelsea and so far he’s been willing to rotate here. He has played a 4-3-1-2, 4-4-2, 4-3-3 depending on the personnel.
He has been quite pragmatic in he’s approach here so far.
I dont agree that the squad is better suited for Allegri either, but I guess we will see after the season if I am right or not.

I agree that Allegri’s time has come and that Sarri so far has shown signs that he can adapt but it’s also still early in the season so who knows how our game will look when there is no continuity due to injuries and all sort of circumstances... however, i couldn’t disagree more with you about the rest, especially as i’m pretty sure you are one of those who always had something to say about our so far similar style of football in the previous season to the one on display now.

So just to get it straight, in your book replacing a succesfull coach with an inferior one is just a matter of the previous one needing to go? No upgrade, not someone who can really be an inspiration or at the very least someone who’s won at least a few trophies in his 30year long career to at least simulate some sort of mutual respect to a group of serial champions? Because honestly that’s what i get from your post other than you praising and acting as if Sarri was a normal choice to us and the way this team was built.


I ain’t gonna go on about it because it almost seems as if i’m all out against Sarri when frankly that is far from the case i’m trying to make, that’s not my point, what i dislike is people hiding behind views that fit theirs or someone else’s narrative despite being obviously contradicted by facts and common sense.

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So yeah, was Sarri a good choice? NO , is Sarri remmended to lead such a squad on all fronts? Not exactly. Do you have to speak nonsense about Sarri being a great or even a fit to Juventus? ffs, NO! What for...

Does Sarri deserve his chance now that he is here? Obviously YES, and will/should get all my/our support and praise each time he deserves it.

 

[dolph]

I agree that Allegri’s time has come and that Sarri so far has shown signs that he can adapt but it’s also still early in the season so who knows how our game will look when there is no continuity due to injuries and all sort of circumstances... however, i couldn’t disagree more with you about the rest, especially as i’m pretty sure you are one of those who always had something to say about our so far similar style of football in the previous season to the one on display now.

So just to get it straight, in your book replacing a succesfull coach with an inferior one is just a matter of the previous one needing to go? No upgrade, not someone who can really be an inspiration or at the very least someone who’s won at least a few trophies in his 30year long career to at least simulate some sort of mutual respect to a group of serial champions? Because honestly that’s what i get from your post other than you praising and acting as if Sarri was a normal choice to us and the way this team was built.


I ain’t gonna go on about it because it almost seems as if i’m all out against Sarri when frankly that is far from the case i’m trying to make, that’s not my point, what i dislike is people hiding behind views that fit theirs or someone else’s narrative despite being obviously contradicted by facts and common sense.

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So yeah, was Sarri a good choice? NO , is Sarri remmended to lead such a squad on all fronts? Not exactly. Do you have to speak nonsense about Sarri being a great or even a fit to Juventus? ffs, NO! What for...

Does Sarri deserve his chance now that he is here? Obviously YES, and will/should get all my/our support and praise each time he deserves it.

What an absolute bunch of horseshit.

First of all you and I dont know if Sarri is qualified to coach Juve, but our management certainly seems to think so.

Second of all I dont think Sarri is a downgrade to Allegri, and I think he is a good choice by our management. Good job replacing a man who was totally out of ideas, with a quality coach.
If it turns out to be nonsense in the end I will gladly admit I was wrong. I wonder if you will do the same if it turns out Sarri becomes a succes for us.

 

[Alin]

What an absolute bunch of horseshit.

First of all you and I dont know if Sarri is qualified to coach Juve, but our management certainly seems to think so.

Second of all I dont think Sarri is a downgrade to Allegri, and I think he is a good choice by our management. Good job replacing a man who was totally out of ideas, with a quality coach.
If it turns out to be nonsense in the end I will gladly admit I was wrong. I wonder if you will do the same if it turns out Sarri becomes a succes for us.

Don’t wonder too much, because i have no problem in praising a succesfull coach when i see one, i.e. Allegri for majority of his time here in our case, whereas not the same can be said about you now, is it?

Talking about a bunch of horseshit lol , won’t even get into comparisons between them with you because it would clearly be a waste of time bringing some common sense into this debate, however, point still stands that you basically have zero arguments to sustain your Sarri narative other then the fact the club appointed him because of the same reason you pointed out, he was perhaps the only decent option available to us at the time being.

To clear it out for you, if the club decided to take a gamble on a coach doesn’t automatically mean he is already a better choice or an automatic upgrade over the previous one, regardless of our personal feelings towards one or the other.

Try thinking without a premeditated narrative for once. Respect and praise has to be earned, is not a given.

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Spoiler

P.S.: Don’t take my rant too personal, i’m mainly against the narrative itself.

 

[pavluska]

It's about perspective. Allegri then was deemed a worse coach than Sarri now when he joined us.

Don't be so sure about Sarri being levels below Allegri. You might be pleasantly surprised.

And given the trajectory, going from Allegri to Sarri certainly isn't a downgrade. There's no reason to ignore the deterioration and trend from last two seasons, and neither is that a negative on Allegri. 5 years is a long time.

 

[Alin]

It's about perspective. Allegri then was deemed a worse coach than Sarri now when he joined us.

Don't be so sure about Sarri being levels below Allegri. You might be pleasantly surprised.

And given the trajectory, going from Allegri to Sarri certainly isn't a downgrade. There's no reason to ignore the deterioration and trend from last two seasons, and neither is that a negative on Allegri. 5 years is a long time.

I agree that It’s not necessarily a downgrade but surely more like a sideways move at best so far tbf.

However, this takes nothing away from the fact(and my main point altogether) that respect and praise has to be earned and is not a given just through the appointment itself, so untill proven otherwise there’s no real debate into it other then assumptions, narratives and mainly real/false expectations judging by the career achievements of one or the other.

Obviously, time will tell, a gamble is still a gamble afterall.

 

[dolph]

Don’t wonder too much, because i have no problem in praising a succesfull coach when i see one, i.e. Allegri for majority of his time here in our case, whereas not the same can be said about you now, is it?

Talking about a bunch of horseshit lol , won’t even get into comparisons between them with you because it would clearly be a waste of time bringing some common sense into this debate, however, point still stands that you basically have zero arguments to sustain your Sarri narative other then the fact the club appointed him because of the same reason you pointed out, he was perhaps the only decent option available to us at the time being.

To clear it out for you, if the club decided to take a gamble on a coach doesn’t automatically mean he is already a better choice or an automatic upgrade over the previous one, regardless of our personal feelings towards one or the other.

Try thinking without a premeditated narrative for once. Respect and praise has to be earned, is not a given.

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Spoiler

P.S.: Don’t take my rant too personal, i’m mainly against the narrative itself.

I been praising Sarri for 3 years, calling him a top coach, based on the work he done in Napoli and partly Chelsea. For me he got the max out of the material he was given, which for me is the sign of a quality coach. My assesment of Sarri has nothing to do with our management appointing him.

I praised Allegri plenty just like I been critical of him, and I will do the same with Sarri.

 

[Alin]

I been praising Sarri for 3 years, calling him a top coach, based on the work he done in Napoli and partly Chelsea. For me he got the max out of the material he was given, which for me is the sign of a quality coach. My assesment of Sarri has nothing to do with our management appointing him.

I praised Allegri plenty just like I been critical of him, and I will do the same with Sarri.

Really wonder what your take would have been if say Guardiola, Zidane or even Pochettino would have been appointed instead because from what i am reading here, other then the fact you personally like Sarri for a number of years now, to you he is also the best choice we could have went for and also a very good fit to this Juventus roaster despite realistically nothing truly recommending him to take on such a star-studded squad or even the challenge itself of winning on all fronts...We get it you don’t like Allegri and was fed up with him as many of us were but why the sudden urge to praise and defend Sarri at all costs despite doing basically nothing here yet to actually be worthy of it?

Also iggnoring the fact our previous coach had 3 direct years in which he went head to head with our current one and we all know what happened is definitely questionable to your assesment.

 

[pavluska]

he got the max out of the material he was given, which for me is the sign of a quality coach.

Somehow, that's lost on some.