j0ker

Capo di tutti capi
Jan 5, 2006
20,516
i said in my mercato recap that it's basically a usual juventus mercato from the andrea agnelli era, not worse, not better.

in one regard beppe was much better than paratici: transparency and consistency. players never complained publicly. back in the days, i bet licht already knew weeks before that he was gonna be excluded from the cl list, and he had time to prepare an adequate statement. now can probably knew that his inclusion was in the balance, but bild's question caught him by surprise and gave a damaging interview before releasing his proper statement. this is on the club, be it paratici or sarri, i don't care. in the beppe days, we never had any fuckups like that ridiculous statement about cr rape allegations, the coach saga (releasing allegri too early, then waiting for sarri like he's the second coming of lippi), or this emre can case. also about consistency: rugani received a new contract, rumors said he's about to sign an other one, then booom, some months later he finds himself on the market, because paratici was unable to sell some unwanted players. dybala is one of our most important franchise players (in fact, 2nd more important behind cr), still, you can't follow how the club handled him. it's unprofessional, and real madrid doing more or less the same with james and bale doesn't make it look much better.

i admit that it's a steep learning curve, but a club's transparency and consistency are just as important as its finances or squad. i hope paratici will improve on these as he gains more experience. at least his plans were transparent when he forgot his notes in that hotel :baus:
Why is transparency so important? I really don't get it.

Would you feel better if he went to the press and said "we are trying to sell Dybala, but he does not want to leave"? What change would it bring?

I for one want the club to be even more secretive, like in the old Moggi days when we signed players with media knowing shit about it.
 
Nov 25, 2005
29,298
Why is transparency so important? I really don't get it.

Would you feel better if he went to the press and said "we are trying to sell Dybala, but he does not want to leave"? What change would it bring?

I for one want the club to be even more secretive, like in the old Moggi days when we signed players with media knowing shit about it.
These are different times. The more buzz around something, the more clicks, the more money.
 

Orgut

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2002
11,799
i said in my mercato recap that it's basically a usual juventus mercato from the andrea agnelli era, not worse, not better.

in one regard beppe was much better than paratici: transparency and consistency. players never complained publicly. back in the days, i bet licht already knew weeks before that he was gonna be excluded from the cl list, and he had time to prepare an adequate statement. now can probably knew that his inclusion was in the balance, but bild's question caught him by surprise and gave a damaging interview before releasing his proper statement. this is on the club, be it paratici or sarri, i don't care. in the beppe days, we never had any fuckups like that ridiculous statement about cr rape allegations, the coach saga (releasing allegri too early, then waiting for sarri like he's the second coming of lippi), or this emre can case. also about consistency: rugani received a new contract, rumors said he's about to sign an other one, then booom, some months later he finds himself on the market, because paratici was unable to sell some unwanted players. dybala is one of our most important franchise players (in fact, 2nd more important behind cr), still, you can't follow how the club handled him. it's unprofessional, and real madrid doing more or less the same with james and bale doesn't make it look much better.

i admit that it's a steep learning curve, but a club's transparency and consistency are just as important as its finances or squad. i hope paratici will improve on these as he gains more experience. at least his plans were transparent when he forgot his notes in that hotel :baus:
Can CL case - Completely agree
notes in hotel - I just remember Zaniolo 40M who were the others?
 

DS8_Montero

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2018
642
Keep in mind that in Inter he loaned out Perisic, Icardi and Naingolan., Players worth more than 100m combined.
It might look like a lame job if you look at those names indeed. But it doesn't look as such if you look at those players closely.

- Nainggolan is no longer the player who looked formidable in Roma, he's unreliable because of both fitness and psychological issues. That's why he went to Cagliari and not some at least tier 2 Italian club like Fiorentina. No serious club needs him. Even a joke of club like Inter doesn't need him, and rightly so. His professional career as a football player is quickly nearing its end and only he's responsible for this.

- Perisic bears Douglas Costa -ish spirit in him. He looks like an excellent winger when he's on top of his game, but he cannot maintain such a level for a significant amount of time, and usually is just a weak shade of his best self. On average he provides very little value for the club on the pitch. He went to Bayern, quite poorly managed club these days, but still very popular, so if Perisic shines there Beppe will only benefit from it when the sale time comes.

- Icardi was a king at Inter before Beppe joined them. And he was a vicious king, who disrespected the club and didn't care much about anything but money and his wife. At the same time, he was useful on the pitch only when the entire team worked for him because he's got very limited range of possible actions as a striker. Beppe showed him his real place. Now nobody even remembers how he treated the club a year ago. He doesn't poison the dressing room anymore, and he doesn't cripple the game plan by his presence. At the same time, he was sent to PSG, much bigger club than Inter now that was in dire need of a striker. If he shines there (and it's not that difficult to shine at PSG in France), he'll restore his full market value and will be sold for good money, but it won't be done at the expense of Beppe's club. If he fails there, it will just prove that the Inter management was right when they decided not to waste time with this guy anymore treating him as an important part of the club.

So, it's pretty good job by Beppe. It looks even better when you look at some of his signings (and here I'm talking only about the most interesting ones).

- Lukaku. Like most Tuz members, I'm not a fan of this guy. But Conte is, which is much more important than my opinion in this situation. Beppe gave Conte the player he wanted so much. The club paid for this player huge money, considering the club's size it was something comparable to 200m if it were spent by Juventus. That's a bold move, and that's the move in the right direction if you trust your coach and want him to show everything he's capable of.

- Sanchez. It's always a pleasure to know that Man Utd pays salary to a man who plays for your club. That's classic Beppe.

All in all:
- he offloaded all the players he wanted to leave, even if they refused to (Icardi);
- he purchased the important player his coach requested who replaced the player he sent on loan.

If you rate highly Paratici's mercato, you cannot deny that Beppe did a great job. Considering the hole he works in now, he definitely didn't do anything worse than Fabio, to put it mildly.

And, since Higuian plays with digits 2 and 1 on his back, the number 9 is vacant at Juventus, while Icardi poses with PSG jersey, it looks like Beppe won his battle against Paratici.
 

GarfielD

Senior Member
May 21, 2009
9,733
It might look like a lame job if you look at those names indeed. But it doesn't look as such if you look at those players closely.

- Nainggolan is no longer the player who looked formidable in Roma, he's unreliable because of both fitness and psychological issues. That's why he went to Cagliari and not some at least tier 2 Italian club like Fiorentina. No serious club needs him. Even a joke of club like Inter doesn't need him, and rightly so. His professional career as a football player is quickly nearing its end and only he's responsible for this.

- Perisic bears Douglas Costa -ish spirit in him. He looks like an excellent winger when he's on top of his game, but he cannot maintain such a level for a significant amount of time, and usually is just a weak shade of his best self. On average he provides very little value for the club on the pitch. He went to Bayern, quite poorly managed club these days, but still very popular, so if Perisic shines there Beppe will only benefit from it when the sale time comes.

- Icardi was a king at Inter before Beppe joined them. And he was a vicious king, who disrespected the club and didn't care much about anything but money and his wife. At the same time, he was useful on the pitch only when the entire team worked for him because he's got very limited range of possible actions as a striker. Beppe showed him his real place. Now nobody even remembers how he treated the club a year ago. He doesn't poison the dressing room anymore, and he doesn't cripple the game plan by his presence. At the same time, he was sent to PSG, much bigger club than Inter now that was in dire need of a striker. If he shines there (and it's not that difficult to shine at PSG in France), he'll restore his full market value and will be sold for good money, but it won't be done at the expense of Beppe's club. If he fails there, it will just prove that the Inter management was right when they decided not to waste time with this guy anymore treating him as an important part of the club.

So, it's pretty good job by Beppe. It looks even better when you look at some of his signings (and here I'm talking only about the most interesting ones).

- Lukaku. Like most Tuz members, I'm not a fan of this guy. But Conte is, which is much more important than my opinion in this situation. Beppe gave Conte the player he wanted so much. The club paid for this player huge money, considering the club's size it was something comparable to 200m if it were spent by Juventus. That's a bold move, and that's the move in the right direction if you trust your coach and want him to show everything he's capable of.

- Sanchez. It's always a pleasure to know that Man Utd pays salary to a man who plays for your club. That's classic Beppe.

All in all:
- he offloaded all the players he wanted to leave, even if they refused to (Icardi);
- he purchased the important player his coach requested who replaced the player he sent on loan.

If you rate highly Paratici's mercato, you cannot deny that Beppe did a great job. Considering the hole he works in now, he definitely didn't do anything worse than Fabio, to put it mildly.

And, since Higuian plays with digits 2 and 1 on his back, the number 9 is vacant at Juventus, while Icardi poses with PSG jersey, it looks like Beppe won his battle against Paratici.
he did a good job in bringing players, true, but he managed the sales terribly imo.

He talked publicly that Icardi is off their project, and with that he cut his price in half. Now he loaned him out with option. As much as i hate him, he is superior to Lukaku for sure. A lot of merda fans agree with me on this one. Imagine we loaned Dybala with option, tuz would go crazy and linch Paratici.

I agree that Naingolan is not that good now, but he spent like 40m for him, terrible transfer. He did ok for them, but still. And they didnt make any profit from the loan.

Perisic also on loan, could have sold to manutd last year for a nice profit. It was obvious that he wanted out, should have sold him then.

I dont agree that he did better than Paratici. Its too early to say this. Look at our second team. Only City can match that. Im satisfied with our squad. Only the fullbacks worry me a bit the rest is top noch.
 

DS8_Montero

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2018
642
He talked publicly that Icardi is off their project, and with that he cut his price in half. Now he loaned him out with option.
He talked about it publicly because Icardi and especially his wife constantly badmouthed the club before. He had to do that to gain control of the situation. At the same time, it doesn't look like it really cut the price that much, since the option to buy is rumored to be around 70m, which is, of course, less than 90-100m Icardi would have probably costed otherwise (he's got a too narrow set of skills to be priced higher in modern football), but it's still a lot of money.

Imagine we loaned Dybala with option, tuz would go crazy and linch Paratici.
Dybala never damaged the club the way Icardi did and has never been hated by Juventus fans. To be fair, he had his issues with the management too (showed lack of respect for Allergi during the substitutions), but it was nothing big and long-lasting.

he spent like 40m for him, terrible transfer. He did ok for them, but still. And they didnt make any profit from the loan.
I agree that it was a bad transfer (the worst part of it for Inter - they lost one of the most talented young Italian players). I don't even think he did ok for them, apart from buying them last minute tickets to the CL in one particular game (if it didn't happen, he would be a complete failure). My point was that now, when all mistakes related to this transfer have been made, there was nothing much he could do with this Nainggolan.

Perisic also on loan, could have sold to manutd last year for a nice profit. It was obvious that he wanted out, should have sold him then.
Marotta was still managing Juventus last summer. Now at least they don't pay a salary to a player they don't need.

I dont agree that he did better than Paratici. Its too early to say this. Look at our second team. Only City can match that.
A huge part of the squad depth Paratici enjoys was reached with Beppe, while now Marotta at this Inter has much fewer options due to money, club prestige, etc. In his particular situation he conducted a very solid mercato (especially if you add Conte to the list of Beppe's achievements). Of course, we'll see what it gives them at the end of the season. But now I consider them much more dangerous opponents than Napoli.
 
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Mokku

Junior Member
Apr 17, 2019
262
Nobody has factored in the influence that agents have, you know that Raiola is someone who gets his way and how Wanda is the total opposite. Both can be great or detrimental for clubs. Since we have Ronaldo every player will want big wages, agents will always push for that on top of playing time guarantees.

Also, our emotional attachment to our players will always cloud our judgement for instance, Dybala. I think he's great but if he rides the bench all season then it's better for all parties that he leaves. If a dickhead like Icardi comes in and starts every game, the whole thing makes sense despite what the fans want.
 

Hængebøffer

Senior Member
Jun 4, 2009
24,516
Cobolli-Gigli should never talk about Juve again. He's the definition of incompetent.
But still right.

- - - Updated - - -

:rofl:Taking the opinion of Cobolli ... the Juve dark side era ... and now talk about Fabio and AA
Dark side era? People forget easily. I’m not saying he was great, but with him here we finished third and second the two first seasons after we returned to Serie A and he started the foundation for us to build our own stadium.

- - - Updated - - -

It's also easy to look good when you have Barzagli and Chiellini on your right and left. Two worldclass defenders who protect your ass as you are the ball-playing defender.
Stop this stupid nonsense. He proved many times that this is not true. But he’s clearly done now.
 
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Apr 21, 2012
2,697
he did a good job in bringing players, true, but he managed the sales terribly imo.

He talked publicly that Icardi is off their project, and with that he cut his price in half. Now he loaned him out with option. As much as i hate him, he is superior to Lukaku for sure. A lot of merda fans agree with me on this one. Imagine we loaned Dybala with option, tuz would go crazy and linch Paratici.

I agree that Naingolan is not that good now, but he spent like 40m for him, terrible transfer. He did ok for them, but still. And they didnt make any profit from the loan.

Perisic also on loan, could have sold to manutd last year for a nice profit. It was obvious that he wanted out, should have sold him then.

I dont agree that he did better than Paratici. Its too early to say this. Look at our second team. Only City can match that. Im satisfied with our squad. Only the fullbacks worry me a bit the rest is top noch.
It seems that Beppe was appointed a few months after Nainngolan transfer.
 

Vlad

Delusional
May 23, 2011
18,334
I have no doubt this guy is an excellent director of sport, he has an eye for talent and opportunities but Juventus also need general manager. Someone well spoken, suave, who makes sure everything goes smooth, handles media well, negotiates deals. Fabio isnt up for this task and I dont think he will ever be.
 

Juventinoo

Ertuğrul Oğlu Osman
Oct 20, 2004
1,956
I have no doubt this guy is an excellent director of sport, he has an eye for talent and opportunities but Juventus also need general manager. Someone well spoken, suave, who makes sure everything goes smooth, handles media well, negotiates deals. Fabio isnt up for this task and I dont think he will ever be.
This is his first year in charge , i think it's fair to say , give him a chance ...
 

cimenk

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2008
1,744
I have no doubt this guy is an excellent director of sport, he has an eye for talent and opportunities but Juventus also need general manager. Someone well spoken, suave, who makes sure everything goes smooth, handles media well, negotiates deals. Fabio isnt up for this task and I dont think he will ever be.
Agree
Paratici is good to see how good a player but he still needs to learn to see it as a whole. And become a good GM
This year is his first year and it seems he doesn't have a clear plan or communicate with Sarri about what kind of team they want and who is included.

In beginning, he want to exclude Matuidi, Khedira, Mandzo, Higuain. And we invest in Can, Ramsey, Rabiot. Later for Sarri keep playing Khedira and Matuidi as first team. Selling Kean after we cant offload Higuain. Selling Cancelo for plusvalenza. I dont know if they have a clear plan or not. Matuidi is a good player but certainly shouldnt in first team if at first Paratici/Sarri thinks he is expendable.

At least with Marotta we know who we will replace and make the right but reasonable investment. We bought Khedira for Vidal, Pjanic for Pirlo, Tevez for Vucinic, etc.

If you see Inter Milan, at least Marotta have a very clear plan and direction. He said signing Conte is Inter's best transfer. He clear all the players who has a problem before in dressing room : Icardi, Perisic, Nainggolan. And buy what they needed : Godin for 3CB formation, Sensi for Pirlo's role, Lukaku as target man, Sanchez as SS which Conte like in Tevez mould, Biraghi as LWB which also homegrown, Barella also. These players already played this season.

This season will be very challenging for us
 

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