European affairs (18 Viewers)

[Scottish]

Im enlightened non-European Turkic person. Im Ataturkist.

This is an oxymoron.

Mods please ban Elvin from this European thread. It's what he wants and believes to be right. If he attempts fraudulent entry again with falsified documents (a Double Account) then he must be banned again and forcibly sent to the Rwanda Juventus Fan Forum.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[s4tch]

unexpected but well done by the belgians

 

[Scottish]

That's Austria elected a far-right government as well. From what I've read this morning the new guy Herbert Kickl is pro-russia, euroskeptic, islamophobic, antivax and anti-migrant. His party was founded by a literal nazi in the 1950s, although it seems it was a nazi who opposed anchluss and the holocause because it made the nazis look bad (lol)

Looked it up and by my count there are far right parties in government or in coalition in Austria, Netherlands, Hungary, Italy, Finland, Georgia, Macedonia, Serbia, Slovakia, Sweden, Switzerland.

And worrying trends and strong far-right politics in the UK, Estonia, Spain, France, Poland, Bulgaria, Czechia, Portugal, Slovenia.

https://www.politico.eu/article/aus...onal-election-early-projections-herbet-kickl/

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Do we have any Austrians on Tuz? What's the chat like on the ground?

 

[swag]

The underlying theme is more anti-establishment, really. Right now the extremists are winning votes but still lack majorities and are regularly getting locked out of controlling decisions. This is true in Portugal as it is the EU.

I think if you want to see a workable example in Europe, it's Meloni. It's a different thing being anti-establishment until you become the establishment. Most wouldn't know what dafuq to do with themselves on the inside after railing against the inside so long as outsiders. Meloni took a lot of flack for moderating her party's preference to shoot holes in migrant boats off Lampedusa. But she's also made it work and found ways to influence the system from within.

In a short time, Meloni has basically kinda shamed Le Pen for taking too long and not putting any real influence behind her efforts.

It's going to be curious to see how many fail as representative protest candidates and who succeed to influence without resorting to radicalism.

 

[Mokku]

In the UK, most who vote for the far right are basically people who are struggling in the current climate financially and socially. I get the older voters who 'don't recognise their country anymore', but it stems from getting an insufficient pension and struggling while 'immigrants' are taking all the money.

Others want to claim the top jobs, but any serious company will take the best for the job, which can be foreigners or non-white looking people. The low level shitbags who can't get good jobs bellyache over immigrants taking the lowest level jobs, the fact is that they're too incompetent. Serious people can see the benefit of immigration and take advantage to develop. Having a far right win in the UK does nothing for their supporters. They went all out to get out of the EU and these shits sat on their arses expecting floods of money while they did nothing to adapt to increased imports and cost of living changes. Nobody wants to be a nurse or midwife, not part of the police, don't want to humble themselves and do cleaning or whatever, then the immigrants will have to take those jobs.

Also, the previous Conservative governments have screwed us financially and we're going to have to recover slowly. I wouldn't trust the English hillbillies to contribute much whereas some of these immigrants and smarter whites will take their opportunity to make the country better. It's really telling that most of the anti-fascism protesters are educated whites and it's because they have some humanity and even if closet racists, they see the importance of immigrants. These UK far righters will take the country back to the stone age because they simply have no brains whatsoever.

Unchecked immigration is an issue for sure, but you need smarter people who actually contribute to the economy and society to have their say rather than someone who gargles Tommy Robinson's mirco balls out in Spain or fans of Nigel Farage (who worships Trump). We don't need that shit over here while we try and recover the country.

 

[U Picciriddu]

The underlying theme is more anti-establishment, really. Right now the extremists are winning votes but still lack majorities and are regularly getting locked out of controlling decisions. This is true in Portugal as it is the EU.

I think if you want to see a workable example in Europe, it's Meloni. It's a different thing being anti-establishment until you become the establishment. Most wouldn't know what dafuq to do with themselves on the inside after railing against the inside so long as outsiders. Meloni took a lot of flack for moderating her party's preference to shoot holes in migrant boats off Lampedusa. But she's also made it work and found ways to influence the system from within.

In a short time, Meloni has basically kinda shamed Le Pen for taking too long and not putting any real influence behind her efforts.

It's going to be curious to see how many fail as representative protest candidates and who succeed to influence without resorting to radicalism.

Honestly I would frame Meloni more as conservative instead of far right.

There’s a difference between her and Wilders for example.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

What's the actual endgame with electing these far right parties though? Just stop immigration?

 

[U Picciriddu]

What's the actual endgame with electing these far right parties though? Just stop immigration?

Immigration, safety (I mean look to Germany yesterday), housing, LGBTQ, not agreeing with the left approach to climate change*, covid (I think many people started to mistrust the establishment due to covid and the left gets blamed for it), left activist who disrupt society very often, really a variety of things.

*Just a silly example, but there’s a town here called Amersfoort. If you have a old fireplace (I think you call it like that in English), you risk a €400 fine due to the pollution. That’s obviously not the way to win people over.

 

[s4tch]

Immigration, safety (I mean look to Germany yesterday), housing, LGBTQ, not agreeing with the left approach to climate change*, covid (I think many people started to mistrust the establishment due to covid and the left gets blamed for it), left activist who disrupt society very often, really a variety of things.

*Just a silly example, but there’s a town here called Amersfoort. If you have a old fireplace (I think you call it like that in English), you risk a €400 fine due to the pollution. That’s obviously not the way to win people over.

that's a very soft way to sum it up

they also want total control over basically everything: prices (stop the inflation with putting price caps on everything lol), press (shut up not friendly opinions, even unfriendly questions aren't welcome), religion (either christian or fuck off), birth (you'll give birth under all circumstances, period), economy (they'd put buddies in every position, regardless of their experience or skill), monetary policy and taxes (fuck moderate and well working policies, unorthodox is the way to go), prosecution (the best way to control crime is to control who's in charge of the cases, insert roll safe think about it meme), etc. i could go on for a day

we have trump's favorite guy in charge for almost 1,5 decades now, so i'm speaking from experience. these motherfuckers stole everything they could and they aren't finished yet, they destroyed the press, free speech, election system, international relations with west/eu, they turned the telekom market upside down, they bought the best domestic companies using the stolen eu money, it's complete insanity.

and they are hypocrites too: https://24.hu/fn/gazdasag/2023/12/2...avallalo-filippino-fulop-szigetek-elbocsatas/ - in hungarian, but both google and deepl translate hungarian to english pretty well
this happened in my home town. orbán is the loudest when it comes to immigration, but they lowkey imported thousands of workers from the philippines and replaced hungarians with them lol. they also sold "residency bonds" to wealthy foreigners, that's an other beautiful story worth checking if you're interested: https://telex.hu/english/2022/06/16...s-even-as-the-eu-prepares-to-end-the-practice (this is in english at least)

tl;dr: these are opportunist pieces of shit with zero integrity

and yes, illegal immigration is an issue that must be solved. europe should have never invited immigration and should have reacted much earlier with more strength. that's the only solid point far right is making. literally the only one. everything else is blown out of proportion. when trump says that they are changing the gender of the kids in schools without the knowledge of the parents, ffs... that's from the same communication manual fidesz is using. those populists are the worst politicians, even a soviet dictator has more integrity than these spineless cunts

 

[swag]

Honestly I would frame Meloni more as conservative instead of far right.

There’s a difference between her and Wilders for example.

See. Her plan worked.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/i-a...orld-of-italian-politics-20240722-p5jvka.html

 

[U Picciriddu]

See. Her plan worked.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/i-a...orld-of-italian-politics-20240722-p5jvka.html

Can’t read pay wall

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that's a very soft way to sum it up

they also want total control over basically everything: prices (stop the inflation with putting price caps on everything lol), press (shut up not friendly opinions, even unfriendly questions aren't welcome), religion (either christian or fuck off), birth (you'll give birth under all circumstances, period), economy (they'd put buddies in every position, regardless of their experience or skill), monetary policy and taxes (fuck moderate and well working policies, unorthodox is the way to go), prosecution (the best way to control crime is to control who's in charge of the cases, insert roll safe think about it meme), etc. i could go on for a day

we have trump's favorite guy in charge for almost 1,5 decades now, so i'm speaking from experience. these motherfuckers stole everything they could and they aren't finished yet, they destroyed the press, free speech, election system, international relations with west/eu, they turned the telekom market upside down, they bought the best domestic companies using the stolen eu money, it's complete insanity.

and they are hypocrites too: https://24.hu/fn/gazdasag/2023/12/2...avallalo-filippino-fulop-szigetek-elbocsatas/ - in hungarian, but both google and deepl translate hungarian to english pretty well
this happened in my home town. orbán is the loudest when it comes to immigration, but they lowkey imported thousands of workers from the philippines and replaced hungarians with them lol. they also sold "residency bonds" to wealthy foreigners, that's an other beautiful story worth checking if you're interested: https://telex.hu/english/2022/06/16...s-even-as-the-eu-prepares-to-end-the-practice (this is in english at least)

tl;dr: these are opportunist pieces of shit with zero integrity

and yes, illegal immigration is an issue that must be solved. europe should have never invited immigration and should have reacted much earlier with more strength. that's the only solid point far right is making. literally the only one. everything else is blown out of proportion. when trump says that they are changing the gender of the kids in schools without the knowledge of the parents, ffs... that's from the same communication manual fidesz is using. those populists are the worst politicians, even a soviet dictator has more integrity than these spineless cunts

I don’t see why Trump is relevant for this discussion, we’re talking European politics not the USA.

Also all the points your making in your first part dont relate to anything I’ve seen here.

 

[s4tch]

I don’t see why Trump is relevant for this discussion, we’re talking European politics not the USA.

Also all the points your making in your first part dont relate to anything I’ve seen here.

they are the same people, buddy. trump, orbán, putin, erdogan, salvini are all the same. same playbook, similar personality, similar policies, same target audience

i give you an example. trump was shocked the other day by a poll revealing that the large majority of teachers is democrat. orbán has cut the overall budget of higher education by ~50% (considering inflation corrected data). orbán said in 2010 that he wants his main oligarch to buy rtl for him, and if the oligarch wouldn't oblige, then the russians will buy the tv channel for orbán anyway. (that's an other nice story.) trump said that abc's licence should be revoked and fox shouldn't broadcast kamala's speeches. i'll let you connect the dots.

you don't see it there because 1. they aren't in power, just a loud minority 2. your democracy works better than the hungarian or the turkish

or pvv isn't far right enough (yet) lol

 

[U Picciriddu]

they are the same people, buddy. trump, orbán, putin, erdogan, salvini are all the same. same playbook, similar personality, similar policies, same target audience

i give you an example. trump was shocked the other day by a poll revealing that the large majority of teachers is democrat. orbán has cut the overall budget of higher education by ~50% (considering inflation corrected data). orbán said in 2010 that he wants his main oligarch to buy rtl for him, and if the oligarch wouldn't oblige, then the russians will buy the tv channel for orbán anyway. (that's an other nice story.) trump said that abc's licence should be revoked and fox shouldn't broadcast kamala's speeches. i'll let you connect the dots.

you don't see it there because 1. they aren't in power, just a loud minority 2. your democracy works better than the hungarian or the turkish

or pvv isn't far right enough (yet) lol

The question was why (far-)right parties are on the rise in the EU, not necessarily if Salvini is comparable with Erdogan.

My post you quoted were some simple examples of why people started voting right here

 

[s4tch]

The question was why (far-)right parties are on the rise in the EU, not necessarily if Salvini is comparable with Erdogan.

My post you quoted were some simple examples of why people started voting right here

question was literally about their endgame

and their endgame is a bit more nuanced than the picture you painted

 

[U Picciriddu]

question was literally about their endgame

and their endgame is a bit more nuanced than the picture you painted

Ah I’m sorry, missed the end game part

Your last sentence is simply not true, I haven’t talked about that so not sure why you’re saying this now.

 

[loyada]

What's the actual endgame with electing these far right parties though? Just stop immigration?

They are trying to solve the paradox of Schrödinger famous feline immigrant paradox

 

[s4tch]

Ah I’m sorry, missed the end game part

it looked to me you didn't

now you can re-read what i wrote in that context

 

[campionesidd]

What's the actual endgame with electing these far right parties though? Just stop immigration?

It’s a way to drum up support by leaning into people’s fears and tribal mentality.

 

[s4tch]

they are everywhere, aren't they

How a Russian operative snared an Irish politician (thetimes.com)

 

[Firestarter]

i guess this belongs in this bread — Tuz better not ban those IP addresses also. We need @Alex-444 highligh/news links

@.zero pls advise on this geo-political matter