[EU] Champions League 2008/2009 (21 Viewers)

[Alen]

Sorry you won't get your John Terry to enjoy, most will enjoy, arguably the two best attacking players currently in the world on opposite sides, in the most important game of this season.

Manchester's football is indeed enjoyable. Not only Ronaldo, but the way the whole team plays.
I can't say the same about Barcelona, but it's a matter of taste i guess.

 

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[Martin]

i m always down for some free dinner

there's no dinner at the bank, but some banks have those bowls of free hard candy :choc:

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Manchester's football is indeed enjoyable. Not only Ronaldo, but the way the whole team plays.
I can't say the same about Barcelona, but it's a matter of taste i guess.

euphemism for bias?

 

[JCK]

Well I happen to think you are: intelligent, witty, good looking, knowledgable, gracious, noble, humble, and mature.

That was a good one.

 

[JCK]

Manchester's football is indeed enjoyable. Not only Ronaldo, but the way the whole team plays.
I can't say the same about Barcelona, but it's a matter of taste i guess.

That's because Manchester don't go passing the ball cluelessly in the middle of the pitch.

 

[Red]

That's because Manchester don't go passing the ball cluelessly in the middle of the pitch.

And Man Utd have better variation in their play.

 

[Alen]

I'm against this mentality in Football... You don't score, you're not worth it.

You can perform, have a great performance, be part of a win without scoring so long your team wins and you're a part of it.

For example, Wayne Rooney, doesn't score lot of goals, but his tremendous work on the field is immense and makes you forget whether he made it to the score-sheet or not.

I can't remember all Messi performances vs Italian or English teams but not everything is about goals.

I agree in general, but we're talking about a guy who scores like crazy in La Liga. Who creates chances with ease. Who destroys defenses.
But the stats say that he couldn't do anything similar against the EPL and serie A teams.

You don't even have to look at the stats though. Look at his performances. Compare what he was doing to Real and the other Spaniards with how well he played against Chelsea or Liverpool.

Messi will grow up to be the best, he'll learn how to make himself useful even when all the attention of the oposition is on him. But until today he still didn't manage to do it against the strong EPL defenders and DMCs.
Ronaldo was also like that, IIRC until 2 years ago.

Messi is still not a complete and mature player, which is normal, he's 21. Atm, Ronaldo is ahead of him, but looking at the future, Messi can be the better player.

 

[Azzurri7]

.

Messi is still not a complete and mature player, which is normal, he's 21. Atm, Ronaldo is ahead of him, but looking at the future, Messi can be the better player.

That I agree. He's still not a complete player yet. Those who claim he is are either pony show fans (all they care about is to see a trick or too) or are newly Football fans.

Turning my biased button on, Diego is the complete one. Just waiiiiiiit and see:cap:

 

[JCK]

And Man Utd have better variation in their play.

That's true and they look like they have a plan.

 

[swag]

Ronaldo is back on form, and that's just one of the reasons the final will be essential viewing: Ronaldo v Messi.

That's how it will be billed.

But chances are the real story will end up being more Puyol vs. Vidic.

 

[Henry]

and vidic will come out on top

 

[sateeh]

But who are the the players Messi has played against them in the entire season? Villareal defenders? Even the Arsenal "bunch of wussies" could beat the shit out of them in the past round. Real Madrid defenders? Sevilla's? Bayern's? Name me the decent defensive teams Messi has played against them this season and I'll accept he's a better player than CR. In 180 minutes against the FIRST team you'd call a "machine", Messi was off if not the worst player of Barca. La Liga teams are utter jokes when it comes to defend. Ronaldo indeed is a better player than Messi. More complete, more stable and in a better physical form.

I was mentioning those specific games Alen was referring to and the massive mismatch between them.

On the other hand one could argue that the teams C.Ronaldo did well against are no better than the La Liga teams. Its not that simple and goes both way imo, people are always mentioning how the EPL is superior to any league on the planet but that is merely an opinion and thus does not consitute a more superior competition for a certain player to excel. It needs to be deeper than that imo. A big argument against C.Ronaldo is his form with his NT. But its not considered as much as i think it should as great players lift their teams and the ones around them in their time of need. And C.Ronaldo has not been near the form he was on last year and Man U have lifted as a team without him, don't get me wrong he makes a difference but not as much as last year.

Anyway, none of this matters as it will ultimately depend on who wins the CL.
Well one could argue the same about the premiership teams that Ronaldo did well against.

But he's an arrogant diver, and a choker, and he loves men.
Messi on the other hand never dives, he's so humble and he also helps the elderly pass the street.

I did not say that, however since you brought it up Messi does conduct himself in a better manner than C.Ronaldo.

 

[v1rtu4l]

Messi on the other hand never dives

because the referee could not even see the height difference when he stands or lies on the ground, so no need for diving ... CR does in fact date men, but messi does try to date pinoccios sister

 

[Stephan]

 

[king Ale]

 

[DelpieroForLife]

Messi is already better than Ronaldo soon to become better than Kaka.

 

[Fred]

I enjoyed that match. There is no chance i ever said that Chelsea-Liverpool wasn't entertaining.
Did you maybe confuse me with Red who said that he'd rather watch a 0:0 with good defense than 4:4 with awful defense?

And that comment about Messi was an obvious (at least i thought so) hit at those who kept saying how Ronaldo, Henry or Ibra are chokers. The : seven : smiley should have been the clue. :smile:
What is a choker? Who is a choker?
If a player plays amazing football through out the year and can't do much when 2-3-4 fantastic defensive players are marking him, is that player a choker? I don't think so.
Because if it is, then everyone's favorite Messi is just as much of a choker as Zlatan and Ronaldo.

Ronaldo and Messi are definitely not chokers. Ronaldo might not influence the game for 90 minutes against the big teams, but he definitely scores goals in important matches, i have never said that Ronaldo is a big game choker, and actually if you search hard enough in the EPL thread, i'm sure you'll find many instances where i grudgingly defend Ronaldo against the people who call him a big game choker.


Ibrahimovic on the other hand is a player i enjoy watching very much, but fact of the matter is, he goes missing when the going gets tough, he's done it so many times. I love footballers like him who play the game and enjoy themselves, but to be objective here, he is a big game choker, difficult to argue against that imo.

Btw, Hoori, do you happen to know more about Messi's record against the serie A and EPL teams?

If you don't, here it is :

He played 8 matches against EPL teams (4 vs Chelsea, 2 vs ManUtd, 2 vs Liverpool) and he scored 0 goals.
He played 3 matches against serie A teams ( 2vs Udinese, 1 vs Milan) and he also scored 0 goals.

Total: 11 matches/ 0 goals.

Wonder if this has something to do with the defense of the EPL and serie A teams.

Its not all about goals Alen. Out of those 8 matches, he performed extremely well against Chelsea in both legs back in 2006, he also did rather well against Man Utd last season, at the very least he was better than C.Ronaldo over both legs, do you not remember that?

However, he was marked out of the other 4 games, the previous two against Chelsea and the two against Liverpool.

 

[Fred]

Messi is already better than Ronaldo soon to become better than Kaka.

Ronaldo is better than Kaka actually.

 

[DelpieroForLife]

Ronaldo is better than Kaka actually.

Your claim was proven last time Milan faced United

 

[king Ale]

Scholes is better than Messi. It was proven last time United faced Barca.