Endless Summer Mercato 2016 (51 Viewers)

[zizinho]

How is playing with a superior offensive player, a great talent will limit Pogba and Dybala's game ???

I explained it in my post. You should just have read it before quoting

so according to you we just surround pogba and Dybala with hardworking players and their offensive game will flourish.

Thats obviously not what i have meant

Yeah we saw how Pogba dominated offensively at the beginning of the season when he was playing with the likes of Sturaro and Padoin....

And ofcourse you are bringing this up. We were at the beginning of the season with 10 new players and some key injuries. Ofcourse the squad will struggle to find its rhythm at 1st. We also saw how amazing Pogba is later on in the season

Wonder why we play Better with Morata instead of Mandzukic even if the latter is more hardworking, how come Morata don't hinder Dybala and Pogba offensive games.

Its debatable. We had great games with both the players. Why doesn't Morata hinder Pogba and Dybala? If you understood my point instead of quoting for no apparent reason youd understand

Isco is a world class talent, only 24 years, 1 year and half older than Dybala and yet he has more years in top flights and showing as much as Dybala if not more

I don't care what he is. I saw enough of him to know the player, nothing special really if you ask me. Still, that has little to do with the point i was making

This notion that you keep talking about that we need a less talented offensive AM to accomodate Pogba and Dybala is really wierd just shows how much you know about football.

Well 1st, i dont keep talking about it, i mentioned it once, and you took it completely out of context (maybe youre tired, how about some sleep and then quote me again in 10-12 hours). Fact is, we don't need anyone, especially not an AM since we play 352 currently (wouldnt give up Cuadrado as RWB for an overrated Isco tbh). My point was, we are a formed team, we went against Bayern few weeks ago and were atleast equal for most of the game. The team as it is is good enough, so any adjustments you make, especially by adding starter caliber players should be only done if the player fits into the team without forcing us to change our way of play for him. Thats why Isco doesent fit. Hes a dribble first guy, he won't be effective if you limit his time on the ball, and hes not a player i consider worth giving up the 352 with Cuadrado. So if we were to get a starter AM, which is not so likely, then that AM has to be able to adapt to our playing wise, not vice versa

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He's right though. Sacrificing offensive game? That's some new-Zach-BS I guess. Did Suarez damage Neymar and Messi? Did Bale damage Ronaldo and Benzema?

If anything it'd help Pogba and Dybala. Another player to play the ball to or if it's not working out for neither that day, you have another one capable of doing something. How that can be a bad thing? Isco works in defence, he's used to it because he's played as B2B quite a lot. If anything adding a capable AM would make our attack more efficient and fluid. It would make life easier for Pogba and Dybala.

Pereyra is not a hardworker at all and he never limit Pogba Tevez/Dybala. Now you add a superior player to the lineup and you say we'll end up worse? Dude it's bollocks. Stop living in the past where we had two artists and the rest were "hardworkers". Today you need talent and skill in the game more than anything else because the game has changed. It's easier to make a talented player work hard than teach a hardworker some technique and skill.

You also seem to not understand my point. I wasnt saying we need a hardworker, i was saying that a new offensive player has to fit into the team, and I consider Isco not as such

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He isn't saying that. He's saying that we need better player than Isco if we're to sacrifice Pogba's contribution in the final 3rd, since it would require from him to play more deep. Someone with better end product, as it would make 0 sense to sacrifice Pogs for an inferior player.

And lol at Isco showing more than Dybala.

Yep, someone understands.

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How do you know that we will sacrifice Pogba's offensive Contribution playing with someone like Isco, it would be the opposite really, it will elevates his game, talented players benefits the most from playing with other talented players as i explained in my post which you chose to ignore.
And you say all of this, yet you guys prefers someone like Saponara or even better a talent less hack like Oscar instead of Isco and you won't me to take what you say seriously.
Explain to me how playing with someone like Oscar/Saponara instead of Isco would be more benefical to our team even if the the latter is the more talented, the better and more accomplished player.

I explained it. Twice. Now read it

 

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[-=DJANGO=-]

I like offensive players as much as the next guy, but people should easily understand that what @Zacheryah and @zizinho are saying is mostly true. Now if someone was adding Neymar to our team - there is no doubt he will fit as a glove, no problem if Pogba has more defensive duties or if Dybala has to track back more - the advantages in offensive game will overcompensate. Isco is a bigger risk.

 

[LiquidPLP]

You also seem to not understand my point. I wasnt saying we need a hardworker, i was saying that a new offensive player has to fit into the team, and I consider Isco not as such

But at the same time you consider Berardi as good option? Wouldn't he limit Dybala then?

If not Berardi, then who? Allegri wants an AM which means, Pogba's offensive game will be "limited" anyway, because we won't be getting an AM that's "better" than Pogba and you know it.

 

[Amer]

If want to keep all the players we have now we will have to invest big money and it could limit us in Mercato.

We need 20 million for Cuadrado, at least 10 for Morata and 10 for Berardi.

That's 40 million, minimum.

It will be very hard to keep these players and buy a top quality AM. If we could do that, it would be a 10/10 Mercato for me.

 

[Cheesio]

But at the same time you consider Berardi as good option? Wouldn't he limit Dybala then?

If not Berardi, then who? Allegri wants an AM which means, Pogba's offensive game will be "limited" anyway, because we won't be getting an AM that's "better" than Pogba and you know it.

The guy is a joke, he is the same guy saying that he will take someone like Saponara or Oscar before Isco as our AM. How is that even logical, i don't know.
Talented players play better with Talented players. Pogba, Dybala and all of our team will benefit from playing with a WC talent like Isco. And this nonsense that some members spit on this forum just shows that people like to comment on players they never watched.

 

[zizinho]

But at the same time you consider Berardi as good option? Wouldn't he limit Dybala then?

If not Berardi, then who? Allegri wants an AM which means, Pogba's offensive game will be "limited" anyway, because we won't be getting an AM that's "better" than Pogba and you know it.

Berardi can be very effective with little touches on the ball as seen in previous seasons. His off ball movements, his ability to play one touch through balls, long balls, passes to the flanks, his runs in behind the defense, his finishing and his intelligence as to when and where to move to create space for himself and others are all characteristics that i find very useful if we were to try to fit him into our starting lineup next season. In short, i find him much more capable of adjusting to our gameplan without us making any significant changes unlike Isco (who I do not know why I even discuss since he will never come here). But I don't even want an AM. I want us to keep Cuadrado and play 352 with him and Sandro. Id like us to bring Berardi and slowly move to a formation where he would be a starter with Dybala and Morata. It would be good to have a real AM for tactical reasons, for when our gameplan isnt working so we can change things around, but I wont die of sadness if no AM arrives

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The guy is a joke, he is the same guy saying that he will take someone like Saponara or Oscar before Isco as our AM. How is that even logical, i don't know.
Talented players play better with Talented players. Pogba, Dybala and all of our team will benefit from playing with a WC talent like Isco. And this nonsense that some members spit on this forum just shows that people like to comment on players they never watched.

You still arent asleep. Better hurry. Then when you wake up 1st answer to the post i quoted you before calling others a joke. and stop making up stuff and then making people believe I said it. Its not very nice, you might make me sad. Infact, the post im quoting now is not very smart and is very repetitive and wrong. But I won't call you a joke because of it, even if you pretty much ask for it

 

[LiquidPLP]

Berardi can be very effective with little touches on the ball as seen in previous seasons. His off ball movements, his ability to play one touch through balls, long balls, passes to the flanks, his runs in behind the defense, his finishing and his intelligence as to when and where to move to create space for himself and others are all characteristics that i find very useful if we were to try to fit him into our starting lineup next season. In short, i find him much more capable of adjusting to our gameplan without us making any significant changes unlike Isco (who I do not know why I even discuss since he will never come here). But I don't even want an AM. I want us to keep Cuadrado and play 352 with him and Sandro. Id like us to bring Berardi and slowly move to a formation where he would be a starter with Dybala and Morata. It would be good to have a real AM for tactical reasons, for when our gameplan isnt working so we can change things around, but I wont die of sadness if no AM arrives

It's not that I disagree about the Berardi part, I'm myself a fan of the kid but let's not be biased here. Whatever Berardi can do, Isco can do it too. Possibly even better than the Italian. In fact Isco is suited to play with his back to goal and he's very good at making the play and setting up others. He's capable of moving to wings and his short passing/through balls are top notch. I think having him alongside Pogba and Dybala would be a joy to watch and it'd be very effective too. The way I see it is exactly the opposite to yours though: it'll be harder to fit Berardi in than it'd be to fit Isco. The main reason being Berardi very similar to Dybala. It'll require some tweaks from Allegri for sure. With Isco, you just throw him in and he'll link the midfield and attack well enough because it's his natural position.

I mean it's like there's some agenda against the kid in here because he struggles at Madrid. It's not like Snejider and Robben were setting the world on fire there but once they got out of there they turned into truly WC players. Whether Isco comes or not it's a different matter though. It could be Oscar/Pastore or even Gomes (even though Gomes is no AM).

IMO the 352 won't be our main formation any more once we bring a player that enables Allegri to play 4312. Cuadrado is very unlikely to stay and without him 352 won't work as good.

 

[Post Ironic]

I explained it in my post. You should just have read it before quoting



Thats obviously not what i have meant



And ofcourse you are bringing this up. We were at the beginning of the season with 10 new players and some key injuries. Ofcourse the squad will struggle to find its rhythm at 1st. We also saw how amazing Pogba is later on in the season



Its debatable. We had great games with both the players. Why doesn't Morata hinder Pogba and Dybala? If you understood my point instead of quoting for no apparent reason youd understand



I don't care what he is. I saw enough of him to know the player, nothing special really if you ask me. Still, that has little to do with the point i was making



Well 1st, i dont keep talking about it, i mentioned it once, and you took it completely out of context (maybe youre tired, how about some sleep and then quote me again in 10-12 hours). Fact is, we don't need anyone, especially not an AM since we play 352 currently (wouldnt give up Cuadrado as RWB for an overrated Isco tbh). My point was, we are a formed team, we went against Bayern few weeks ago and were atleast equal for most of the game. The team as it is is good enough, so any adjustments you make, especially by adding starter caliber players should be only done if the player fits into the team without forcing us to change our way of play for him. Thats why Isco doesent fit. Hes a dribble first guy, he won't be effective if you limit his time on the ball, and hes not a player i consider worth giving up the 352 with Cuadrado. So if we were to get a starter AM, which is not so likely, then that AM has to be able to adapt to our playing wise, not vice versa

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You also seem to not understand my point. I wasnt saying we need a hardworker, i was saying that a new offensive player has to fit into the team, and I consider Isco not as such

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Yep, someone understands.

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I explained it. Twice. Now read it

+1

 

[il brutto]

I don't understand the negativity around here when people disagree on things. We are all giving opinions not facts so there is no need to get offended. Intellectual warfare on internet is probably one of the lamest things I know.

I think the main worry people have with Isco is would he play well in the bigger games where we tend to play on the counter. He's not that fast and likes to keep hold of the ball for too long at times. I can see why people worry about him not fitting in as it might slow our game down too much.

I do think that with the right coaching he could do well here even with his limitations. It's good to remember that he has been badly out of form for quite some time now. Our aim would be to get that Isco who was great in Malaga out of him.

 

[ADP1897]

The guy is a joke, he is the same guy saying that he will take someone like Saponara or Oscar before Isco as our AM. How is that even logical, i don't know.
Talented players play better with Talented players. Pogba, Dybala and all of our team will benefit from playing with a WC talent like Isco. And this nonsense that some members spit on this forum just shows that people like to comment on players they never watched.

I like Isco, but tbh i rarely seen him play, maybe because he's always in real's bench.
Stat wise he's not that impressive tbh... With foward line consist of C.Ronaldo, Bale, and Benzema his stats should be better. And yes, for me player who played in attacking position can be judged by stats, unlike defensive minded players.

Maybe Saponara mediocre compared to Isco, but he carry mediocre Empoli, while Isco never got his fair chance.

Tbh 3-5-2 is worked and tested in europe, but it wont be hurt to have a good AM.
And we got homegrown + u21 rules...
As italian, and as rotation player Saponara certainly fit in those bracket.

 

[Valerio.]

if the offers for Mandzukic from Tottenham are treu would you be willing to part to keep Morata and buy another striker or Am??

 

[Post Ironic]

I don't understand the negativity around here when people disagree on things. We are all giving opinions not facts so there is no need to get offended. Intellectual warfare on internet is probably one of the lamest things I know.

I think the main worry people have with Isco is would he play well in the bigger games where we tend to play on the counter. He's not that fast and likes to keep hold of the ball for too long at times. I can see why people worry about him not fitting in as it might slow our game down too much.

I do think that with the right coaching he could do well here even with his limitations. It's good to remember that he has been badly out of form for quite some time now. Our aim would be to get that Isco who was great in Malaga out of him.

I really like Isco but I think part of the question is: does a player like Isco need to be the focal point of a team's play in order to get the best out of him?

Dybala and Pogba are superior players to Isco. Not really debatable. They should be the major focal point of this team's play, Pogba in the build-up, Dybala in attack, with overlap of course. You want an AM who would complement these two, not limit them.

The question becomes can Isco play a supporting role to these two players? As in, more limited time on the ball than he saw at Malaga... If he can, I'd love him here. But the evidence from his time at Madrid shows that he has trouble influencing matches without a lot of time with the ball. Whereas his time at Malaga shows that he is much more suited to be the best player, and the focal point of his team's play, rather than being a smaller piece of the pie like at Madrid. The constant chaos at Madrid makes this rather hard to to tell for sure though.

Oscar, while an inferior player, has shown that he can play that supporting role quite capably. As did Vidal and Pereyra last year, respectively.

Even though I do like Saponara, it would again be the thing I would worry about with him. Is he capable of providing the off-ball movement and positioning, and quick effective link-up play in a team like Juve with superior players, where he won't have huge amounts of time on the ball like he does at Empoli?

One of the things Allegri mentioned in the first month with regards to Dybala, was that he needed to get used to less time on the ball, less space, getting the ball out quicker from his feet, faster decision-making, smarter, quicker thinking about things like pass, dribble, or shoot. He no longer had the time and space he had so much of at Palermo. Dybala, being the insanely talented, and very intelligent player he is, adapted very quickly to this.

Isco still hasn't adapted to this at Madrid. Part of that is the constant state of chaos in that team... the other part?

 

[Xperd]

I'd like to discuss players who we have a realistic chance of getting

tanx

 

[Post Ironic]

I'd like to discuss players who we have a realistic chance of getting

tanx

I did mention Saponara

 

[il brutto]

I really like Isco but I think part of the question is: does a player like Isco need to be the focal point of a team's play in order to get the best out of him?

Dybala and Pogba are superior players to Isco. Not really debatable. They should be the major focal point of this team's play, Pogba in the build-up, Dybala in attack, with overlap of course. You want an AM who would complement these two, not limit them.

The question becomes can Isco play a supporting role to these two players? As in, more limited time on the ball than he saw at Malaga... If he can, I'd love him here. But the evidence from his time at Madrid shows that he has trouble influencing matches without a lot of time with the ball. Whereas his time at Malaga shows that he is much more suited to be the best player, and the focal point of his team's play, rather than being a smaller piece of the pie like at Madrid. The constant chaos at Madrid makes this rather hard to to tell for sure though.

Oscar, while an inferior player, has shown that he can play that supporting role quite capably. As did Vidal and Pereyra last year, respectively.

Even though I do like Saponara, it would again be the thing I would worry about with him. Is he capable of providing the off-ball movement and positioning, and quick effective link-up play in a team like Juve with superior players, where he won't have huge amounts of time on the ball like he does at Empoli?

One of the things Allegri mentioned in the first month with regards to Dybala, was that he needed to get used to less time on the ball, less space, getting the ball out quicker from his feet, faster decision-making, smarter, quicker thinking about things like pass, dribble, or shoot. He no longer had the time and space he had so much of at Palermo. Dybala, being the insanely talented, and very intelligent player he is, adapted very quickly to this.

Isco still hasn't adapted to this at Madrid. Part of that is the constant state of chaos in that team... the other part?

Yeah Isco is a weird one he has all the qualities and talent to succeed anywhere but something is just not clicking for him at Madrid same can be said about Götze at Bayern. Might be an confidence issue with them not getting regular playing time.

Mkhitaryan would in my opinion be the safest signing. He is in-form and is the kind of dynamic player that should fit in well straight away. Oscar, Isco, Götze are all out of form at the moment and they need to improve their game to make a difference here change of scene might help them gain confidence.

I do like Oscar and if our management decides to get him I won't be in the crying choir.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

Did somebody mention Saponara?

 

[jukazem]

The guy is a joke, he is the same guy saying that he will take someone like Saponara or Oscar before Isco as our AM. How is that even logical, i don't know.
Talented players play better with Talented players. Pogba, Dybala and all of our team will benefit from playing with a WC talent like Isco. And this nonsense that some members spit on this forum just shows that people like to comment on players they never watched.

Agreed that talented players play better with talented players and there is a need for improvement. But I disagree with "WC talent like Isco." We need better if we get something in that mould (Ozil/Silva) or get something different like Mikhitariyan or Pjanic or take a chance with Berardi since he's got a good goal-scoring stats.
Currently Isco is playing behind a trio who consistently score 60+ or 70+ goals, and still he isn't cutting it in that system as a assistman role, and he just doesn't score enough. At Juve our strikers don't score nearly as many goals as Madrid strikers so Juve needs an attacking mid who scores 10+ goals to compensate.

 

[Valerio.]

Agreed that talented players play better with talented players and there is a need for improvement. But I disagree with "WC talent like Isco." We need better if we get something in that mould (Ozil/Silva) or get something different like Mikhitariyan or Pjanic or take a chance with Berardi since he's got a good goal-scoring stats.
Currently Isco is playing behind a trio who consistently score 60+ or 70+ goals, and still he isn't cutting it in that system as a assistman role, and he just doesn't score enough. At Juve our strikers don't score nearly as many goals as Madrid strikers so Juve needs an attacking mid who scores 10+ goals to compensate.

Marotta should after those deluded players.
We need to bring in Gotze and ask for Benzema. That's the time! Gotze-Benzema-Dybala if you had these two you could give up on Morata and Mandzukic and bring in Berardi.
Having a set up made by Zaza,Berardi,Dybala,Gotze and Benzema! 4/5 under 25yrs old that would be terrific

 

[juventino320]

Our wc signing this year should be a wc medical team

 

[Valerio.]

Our wc signing this year should be a wc medical team

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