Egypt: from 2011 demonstrations to today (7 Viewers)

Jul 2, 2006
18,781
Please excuse my ignorance here as I am not very familiar with Islam (I was raised a catholic but am now pretty much Agnostic - moved from Catholic Light to - who I am I kidding, I am agnostic).

Anyway, to my question. Is there anything specific in the Quran about women. In other words, anything specific about them needing to wear a burqa once they are married? Anything specific about them not being allowed to drive or anything specific about the husband given the green light to assault them if they have committed adultery etc.

Not being judgmental here, just want to know the facts from people who have actually read the Quran.
Yes, there are verses about hijab. Burqa or not, they should cover all of their body excluding face, hands and feet.

Them not being allowed to drive? There was no driving back then but they are forbidden to travel alone, mostly because of safety.

adultery is a door swings both sides, male or female, adultery is forbidden in Islam.

Why don't you come out of the closet and say what you really believe. What do you think of Shia's that curse every caliph? What do you think of certain Shia's that have altered the Kalma Shahadah to include Hadhrat Ali? Would you not include them in 'O disbelievers'?

Where did 'acceptance of' come from? The key word is deen, faith. In any case, my point stands...why should someone have to 'accept' your religion?
How did we end up in Sunni - Shia discussion? If they curse caliphs, that's their problem. That would make them sinners not disbelievers. Altered version of Kalma Shahadah? Never heard of it. There is only one Kalma Shahadah and it can't be altered.
 

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Zé Tahir

JhoolayLaaaal!
Moderator
Dec 10, 2004
29,281
Please excuse my ignorance here as I am not very familiar with Islam (I was raised a catholic but am now pretty much Agnostic - moved from Catholic Light to - who I am I kidding, I am agnostic).

Anyway, to my question. Is there anything specific in the Quran about women. In other words, anything specific about them needing to wear a burqa once they are married? Anything specific about them not being allowed to drive or anything specific about the husband given the green light to assault them if they have committed adultery etc.

Not being judgmental here, just want to know the facts from people who have actually read the Quran.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/women/long.html

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Also, Turk and Ze, how do you interpret this verse?

4:59 "O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end."
I'm getting read to get off work (night shift), drive home and go to bed in a few min so I'll answer this when I wake up.
 
Jul 2, 2006
18,781
Indyplus updates: The police keep firing; the bodies pile up. In Cairo, bloodbaths are now a daily occurrence

There can be no excuse for the police whose duty is to protect all Egyptians.


Robert Fisk Friday 16 August 2013

It was a disgrace, a most shameful chapter in Egyptian history. The police – some wearing black hoods – shot down into the crowds of Muslim Brotherhood supporters from the roof of Cairo’s Ramses Street police station and surrounding streets.

They even fired at traffic on the airport highway. And to see their terrible work, you had only to climb the pink marble steps of the Al-Fath Mosque – sticky with fresh blood yesterday evening – and see the acre of wounded lying on deep-woven carpets and, in a remote corner, 25 shrouded corpses. Dr Ibrahim Yamani gently lifted the bandages from their bodies: shot in the face, shot in the head, shot in the chest.

So now we have the Ramses Square Massacre – these bloodbaths seem to come by the week, if not by the day – and even as I left the mosque last night, where praying Muslims knelt beside the moaning wounded, a team of paramedics pounded on the chest of a terribly wounded young man. “We are going to lose him,” one of the other doctors said. So was it now 26 dead? The paramedics talked of exploding bullets, and certainly one man’s head had been half blown away. His face was unrecognisable.

The flies were already gathering, swatted from one corpse by a man in tears who was kneeling on the ground. When they could, the medical staff wrote the names of the dead in crayon on their naked bodies. “Zeid Bilal Mohamed” was scrawled on one chest. The dead still deserve names. The last corpse to be brought into the mosque was that of Ahmed Abdul Aziz Hafez. There were – I couldn’t count after the first 50, but the doctors insisted on the figure – 250 wounded.

What was so extraordinary – not to the crowds, perhaps, for they have grown used to this thuggery – was to see some of the faces of the killers. There was a man with a moustache and close-cropped hair on the roof of the police station waving a pistol in the air and shouting obscenities to crowds on the motorway below him. To his left, a policeman wearing a black hood, crouching by the wall, pointed his automatic rifle at the cars on the highway. One of his bullets passed between my driver and myself, whizzing off into the square.

An hour earlier, I had been chatting to the security police at the burned-out Rabaa Mosque in Nasr City – the scene of Wednesday’s massacre – and one of them, in an all-black uniform, cheerfully told me that “we do the work, and the army watches”. This was one of yesterday’s more important truths. For the army stayed a mile from the slaughter in Ramses Square, sitting atop their spanking clean armoured vehicles. No blood on their spotless uniforms.

For two hours, the police gunfire swept the crowds. Two big police armoured cars appeared several times on an overpass and gunfire spattered down on to the square from two narrow steel turrets perched oddly atop the vehicles. At one point, a machine-gun could be heard firing at the crowd of 20,000, 30,000, and later, perhaps 40,000 people, but certainly not a million as the Brotherhood were to claim. The huge body of people twitched and moved like a bubble towards the mosque.

As the police drove up the overpass, dozens of young men – trapped by their approach – began shimmying down an electrical cable to the ground. But one boy jumped to the top of a tree, missed the highest branches, and fell 30 feet to the ground on his back. Panic, fear, fury – “See how they kill us!” a woman in a scarf shouted at us, not without reason – and, I suppose, a kind of courage seized the crowd. They knew this was going to happen. So did the police. The “government” – I suspect it deserves its quotation marks – told the people 24 hours earlier that any attacks on official buildings would be met with live fire. The cops had all the permission they needed. And all the ammunition.

But let us not be romantic about the Muslim Brotherhood. My colleague Alastair Beach saw a man in the crowd firing a rifle at the police. And I rather think those cops I saw on the roof were as fearful as some among the crowds. And – pardon this streak of cruel cynicism – the Brotherhood probably needed those corpses in the mosque yesterday. A day without martyrdom might suggest that the Brotherhood was finished, that the fire of ideology had indeed been damped down, that the Noor Party – the Salafists who with equally massive cynicism joined the military in crushing Mohamed Morsi’s Muslim Brotherhood-backed presidency last month – might take their place as the only true Islamist right hand of the state, albeit in collaboration with the army.

But there was no excuse for the police. Their behaviour was not, I suppose, undisciplined. They had been told to kill, and kill they did – dozens of people were reported killed in clashes elsewhere in Egypt – and the “security” forces also now, I fear, deserve quotation marks around their title. The word “shame” – aib in Arabic – came to mind as we watched these awful scenes. In the centre of one of the greatest cities in the world, known to millions, scarcely a mile from the magnificence of the Egyptian Museum and the treasures of Tutankhamen, only 200 metres from the Courts of Justice – if “justice” is a word that could be uttered in Cairo yesterday – the police officers whose duty is to safeguard the lives of all Egyptians shot into thousands of their own citizens with the simple aim of killing them. And as they did so, the “Beltagi”, also in hoods, the drug-addicts and ex-cops who now form the praetorian guard of the “security” forces, turned up with rifles beside the police station.

Journalists there were aplenty – not that the police cared, for army helicopters hovered low over the crowds with video cameras, hunting for those all-important images of gunmen amid the people, perhaps the man whom Alastair Beach saw, or the groups of bearded youths who stood in the shade with their mobile phones ringing like grasshoppers. Not that we could hear them. The crack of gunfire drowned out all conversation, as clouds of tear gas swamped the streets, shrouding even the minaret of the Al-Fath Mosque.

Another bloody day, then. Funerals within 24 hours – if Cairo’s only mortuary can issue enough pre-burial death notices – and more “martyrs” for the cause.

I was struck yesterday by the face of one middle-aged man carried by five paramedics into the side door of the mosque. Blood was dribbling down his face on to the floor and pouring off his torso. His eyes were open and he stared at the doctors, the faces no doubt blurring past him on what may have been his last journey in life. And a few cameras clicked and a man said that God was great and the haunting face of the living dead was gone. And this is Egypt, two and a half years after the revolution that was supposed to bring freedom, justice and dignity. Forget democracy for the moment, of course.
http://www.independent.co.uk/indepe...baths-are-now-a-daily-occurrence-8771232.html

Gen. Sisi's accomplice
Obama's response to the massacre in Cairo is a big disappointment. It's a big disappointment because it's all about words. No real sanctions that would stop future massacres were mentioned in his reaction.

Like the rest of the world, the Muslim world has correctly interpreted it. Obama, in consideration of pressure from the international community, sent a weak signal in his statement: “Our cooperation cannot go on.” There is a concrete step that the US could take: suspending the $1.3 billion in military aid to Egypt. And if it does this, the administration could name the coup as the reason for the suspension of the aid. Unless these two steps are taken, the US administration will not be seen as convincing and sincere.

The military aid to Egypt makes Obama Gen. Sisi's accomplice. Aid extended to an army that kills its defenseless people with snipers cannot be tolerated or justified. A more remarkable question will be asked more and more: Would the Egyptian army have dared to commit this massacre if the US had opposed the coup from the beginning? Was not Kerry's remark about the July 3 coup to the effect that they are bringing democracy back -- more lethal than the guns the troops held in the Adawiyya and Nahda squares? Massacres are being committed before our eyes. And what about the widespread human rights violations? The military and the police make arbitrary arrests and not a word is heard about those arrested in the news. It is not hard to guess how widespread torture is.

The US has lost prestige in two major fields, democracy and human rights. What is left behind? The democratic experience of Muslims is limited, but they are not stupid. They are well aware that the realpolitik considerations of big powers are the major factors behind the catastrophe they are dealing with. As long as instability in Egypt persists, Israeli security will be guaranteed. The same also applies to the Syrian civil war. The worsening sectarian war in Iraq also serves the national interests of Israel and the US. This is why the Egyptians view Obama and the US administration as Sisi's accomplices. It is also possible to understand why the Arab monarchies are pleased with the coup. The future of these petrodollar-dependent administrations is dimming; democracy will bring them down eventually. It is known that the US' indirect support to Sisi will prolong their reign. But how long will they stay in power?

The 2011 Arab Spring has emerged on a natural and solid basis. Like anyone else in the world, the Arabs demanded democracy and law. But they made a huge mistake. They expected support from the West to uphold their legitimate demands. They believed that their job would be facilitated by the trinity of democracy, human rights and rule of law in the 21st century. The growing massacres in Egypt proved them wrong. For them, the West is now the supporter of the coup makers and the despotic monarchies. There is no other explanation for the West's reluctance to speak out for the liberal values that were used as a pretext for interference with the domestic affairs of other countries in the past. Today, Muslims have experienced this in the massacres committed by their despotic rulers.

We realize that history will not go backward. No administration can survive by spilling the blood of its own people. There will be another Arab Spring; but this time, the people will have faith in themselves alone. But the US and Europe will have lost a great deal of their moral power.
http://todayszaman.com/columnist-323753-gen-sisis-accomplice.html
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
52,534
Them not being allowed to drive? There was no driving back then but they are forbidden to travel alone, mostly because of safety.
Exactly why I think God made a mistake when he decided not to update the Quran over time. It's his final revelation to mankind, but he left us clueless about some things that were invented long after the 7th century.
 

Maddy

Oracle of Copenhagen
Jul 10, 2009
16,541
Exactly why I think God made a mistake when he decided not to update the Quran over time. It's his final revelation to mankind, but he left us clueless about some things that were invented long after the 7th century.
The printer is out of order?

Allah shouldn't have outsourced Help desk to India.

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I don't think Allah foresaw the Industrial Revolution. :D
But he's divine. My Imam told me + a fictional book claims it.
 
Jul 2, 2006
18,781
Saudi prince fires celebrity TV preacher for Brotherhood links

(Reuters) - Saudi billionaire Prince Alwaleed bin Talal has fired a renowned Kuwaiti preacher and motivational speaker from the top job at the religious television channel he owns for what he described as "extremist inclinations" and links to the Muslim Brotherhood.

Saudi Arabia has come out strongly in support of an army crackdown on the Brotherhood in Egypt following the military overthrow of Islamist President Mohamed Mursi last month. The Brotherhood's rise had unsettled Gulf Arab states which feared it would embolden Islamists at home.

The prince said Tareq al-Suwaidan, who has more than 1.9 million Twitter followers and is known across the Arab world for his lectures on self-improvement from an Islamic perspective, had identified himself as "one of the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood" during a lecture in Yemen.

"There is no place for those who carry any deviant thoughts at Al Resalah Channel," Alwaleed wrote in a letter to Suwaidan, according to a news release from the prince's office.

Prince Alwaleed said in the letter that he had repeatedly warned Suwaidan against political affiliation.

Suwaidan responded on Twitter, "Only the weak worry about earning a living, and no one abandons his principles but he who cares about earthly matters."

Prince Alwaleed's uncle, King Abdullah, on Friday called on Arabs to stand together against "attempts to destabilize" Egypt, in a message of support for the military leadership.

(Reporting by Marwa Rashad in Riyadh and Ahmed Hagagy in Kuwait; Writing by Mahmoud Habboush; Editing by Louise Ireland and Sami Aboudi)

‘Our money is the reason Egypt’s bloodshed,’ Dubai sheikh’s daughter says
ISTANBUL - Anadolu Agency

The daughter of Dubai’s Sheikh, Mahra Mohammed al-Maktoum, has protested her emirate’s stance vis-à-vis Egypt’s coup with controversial statements on Facebook.

Mahra Mohammed al-Maktoum posted a comment on a Facebook photo of her father, Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum, saying, “I’m sorry, father, but the reason for the bloodshed [in Egypt] is our money.”

She posted her comment under a photo of her father and King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia with a message that said, “New York Times: Money given by Saudi Arabia and the UAE to [Egyptian army chief Abdel Fattah] al-Sisi proves a conspiracy against Morsi.”

Mahra Mohammed al-Maktoum had earlier posted comments on the social network backing ousted Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi and the Syrian opposition fighting against Damascus.

Exactly why I think God made a mistake when he decided not to update the Quran over time. It's his final revelation to mankind, but he left us clueless about some things that were invented long after the 7th century.
They are not allowed to travel alone, that includes driving as well. It's not that difficult to figure out, is it? Did you really expect the cars and what will happen in future to be written in Quran?

5:48

''Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.''
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
52,534
They are not allowed to travel alone, that includes driving as well. It's not that difficult to figure out, is it? Did you really expect the cars and what will happen in future to be written in Quran?
I'll stop with the off topic after this, but not allowed to travel alone doesn't mean that they can't drive, imo. They can drive with a husband/male relative sitting next to them.
Anyway, from what I understood, no limitation or prohibition against women's travelling alone is mentioned in the Quran.
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
52,534
The MB didn't do themselves a favor when they decided to fake being dead or wounded on TV. Al Jazeera too.
Now people won't even believe that the dead are really dead. Really stupid move from them :sergio:

They did a Sheik in the mafia game.

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You can't be %100 sure if he is faking there.
Come on :D No blood at all on his stomach, but blood on the shirt? :D
Why did he pull his leg then, to hide his stomach being filmed?
 

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