Egypt: from 2011 demonstrations to today (6 Viewers)

Bisco

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2005
14,384
i know you're half joking but it really strikes a chord here, this egyptian "islamic" experiment had really high hopes. And this obvious failure reverberated across a muslim world which was brainwashed to think that this sort of rule will bring back past glories. These fools that you see here who are not even egyptian yet speak with more certainty and confidence that actual egyptians living there are in denial and will never allow themselves to believe that the fault here is within the system itself.
:agree: and here is an insight around this "islamic" experiment and why it was bound to fail.


Islam, Egypt and political theory
Échec mate

ON the face of things, this week's events in Egypt have validated a theory about Islam and society that seemed contrarian when it was first floated. In 1992 a French analyst of the Muslim world, Olivier Roy, published a book entitled "L'échec de l'Islam politique"—translated into English three years later as "The Failure of Political Islam".

Back then, political Islam—the idea that Islam could provide a platform for taking and exercising power in modern times—seemed to be doing quite well. The Islamic masters of Iran, having withstood a long war with Iraq, were looking for new places to extend their influence, including the former Soviet republics to their north. In Algeria, an Islamist party had won a clear electoral majority, triggering a military intervention and then a civil war whose outcome was anybody's guess. It seemed clear that wherever secular despots were willing to relax their grip, Islamist parties would step into the void.

But none of those things disproved the thesis of Mr Roy, who is now a professor at the European University Institute. One of his simplest but most compelling points was that for all its power as a mobilising slogan, Islam just does not provide the answers to the problems of governing a modern state. Quite recently the resurgence of the Muslim Brotherhood in the wake of the Arab spring seemed, once again, to challenge Mr Roy's analysis. But as of this week, he could be forgiven for saying: "I told you so."

In fact, he was saying more interesting things than that when I spoke to him today. These are some of the points he has made about the turmoil in Cairo. The Brotherhood regime in Egypt fell, of course, under the weight of its own incompetence (and in particular its failure to recruit technocrats) and its perceived nepotism. These sins fell short of big-time corruption, because the government did not last long enough to refine that art; but it still looked pretty bad. Nor, Mr Roy told me, could the Morsi government consolidate its power by "Islamising society"—one of the Brotherhood's stated goals—because Egyptian society was about as Islamised as it could be already.

So did that "Islamisation of society" represent a success at least for the Brotherhood's work as a semi-clandestine, semi-overt opposition movement over the past several decades? Not really, because Egypt's Islamised social world was not centrally co-ordinated, as the Brotherhood would like it to be, but highly diverse, with sub-cultures growing around particular charismatic preachers and theological trends. Egypt's Muslim majority might be devout, but it was also "modern" in the sense that more than one Islamic style was available and individuals could make their choice. Even the strict back-to-basics form of Islam known as Salafism was a kind of modern choice, in the sense that individuals, rather than groups, opt it into it.

Mr Roy is surely right to stress that Islam cannot provide detailed prescriptions for governing a modern state. As another scholarly Islam-watcher, Abdullahi Ahmed an-Naim of America's Emory University, has pointed out, Islam cannot even provide a clear basis for the centralised administration of family law, even though Islamic texts have a huge amount to say about family law. That is because the very idea of centralised administration did not exist at the time when the various schools of Muslim family law were evolved; in those days many matters were adjudicated at the level of the local community or the clan.

But the fact that a political project is ultimately impossible will not stop people shouting for it, dying for it, trying their best to implement it. An ideology can still play an important role in history, even if it has little to contribute to the challenges of complex societies. And there is a sense in which all political projects, conceived in the abstract, are bound to fail when they face contact with hard reality. After all, as a famously jaded French philosopher said, at some level everybody fails in life.


source: http://www.economist.com/blogs/eras...-political-theory?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/bl/echecmate

the bolded parts are for the people who seem to be brain washed and saying oh we have to support muslims :lol: and the free army he/she seems to advocate with no regard to the unity of a country that is the very corner stone for the existence and stability of his, seems very laughable. egypt might be a small country size wise but remains a very pivotal country for the stability of this region for more than one reason. its sad when the west these so called radical's call the devil, knows the importance of egypt and its army, and people who claim to know religion, and the true understanding of islam ( needless to say i dont believe in this line, i know from the tender age of 10 these people are hypocrites and i've lived enough to know islam to them is super facial appearance not the true manners islam preaches) don't read what is written on egypt in the holy Quran, or even try and read what the prophet (pbuh) has revealed on egypt and its army and coptic's. seems these radical "we love el qaeda" know better....
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
69,414
i read that article earlier today at work, there was this funny comment in the bottom that caught my eye:

'Religion is much like a penis. It's great to have one, and it's perfectly alright to be proud of it. But if you start whipping it out in public, then you have a serious behavioral problem that needs to be addressed. If you try to shove it down people's throats, then you are sick and require treatment.'
 

Bisco

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2005
14,384
i read that article earlier today at work, there was this funny comment in the bottom that caught my eye:

'Religion is much like a penis. It's great to have one, and it's perfectly alright to be proud of it. But if you start whipping it out in public, then you have a serious behavioral problem that needs to be addressed. If you try to shove it down people's throats, then you are sick and require treatment.'
:lol: i tend to agree with this. that made me spill tea down my shirt :D that made my day

what kills me is that bolded part, when some one tries to enforce his understanding and neglects that there could be more than one right understanding down yr throat :( drives me mad. oh and playing god!! not just in islam before some one jumps and calls me an infidel or sth bec this seems to be happening quite often recently :D but when you sit and pass out judgements on how people go on about there faith as if they own the keys to heaven ( with scripture warning against this) this is why i actually respect mr Adnan ( the scholar you shared a vid for so ze can see what he is saying). scholars like him do exist and its always nice to hear some one moderate, with a kind tone in his voice and more importantly means what he says.
 

Bisco

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2005
14,384
the only distinction on my mind is to figure out whether they're driven by naivety or sheer ignorance
thats a legit question, i think its a mix of both really Abel. politics is a dirty place for scholars and i can go as far as saying its the grave yard for scholars specially ones who did not go thru enough education to know laws, ethic's, and the various schools of thought in islam. there r 4 main schools mind you and they r all human understanding of scripture. i think its also naivety bec deep inside they believe islam is threatened to vanish which is very untrue. i think mega institutions like Azhar have a bigger role to play specially in egypt. its the beacon of moderate islam in the world and its about time they re-live up to there name bec sadly they have been sidelined by extreme voices that are coming out from people who don't have the credentials to do so.
 
OP

ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,871
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #2,552
    nope :) the MB are terrorists and they have shown there true colors. as for last night you cant attack a military position and expect to get away with it. and the egyptain military has released a video showing what happened. they learned the lesson and now they record the events so MB don't trade with the people's life, sth they do all too well.

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    the idiot that is morsy allowed syrians to come to egypt with no visa's now that has changed and they need visa's after a few syrian citizens residing in egpyt have been caught in the action and toke the wrong side by attacking the military.

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    thats what they want to drag the country into. the scary part its there COUNTRY and they have no problems in the country burning or killing egyptain armed forces or egyptain citizens. speakes volumes of there terrorism.

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    @ReBeL

    the terrorists are showing there true colours.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7guPrIog4Y

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    its scary how people can take sides and preach there ideologies and crap when its not there country or the country they reside in!! any ways people can believe what they want to believe. the main thing for me is my country being back to its best and being peaceful. as for the terrorists who attack children, who don't care about the well being of the people of there country, or the people who don't mind if we r dragged to a civil war, or people who conspire against there own $#@!ing army, i hope they get what they deserve!! and for people who seem cool about it being a second algeria, well that will be the biggest mass suicide the MB do and literally brings an end to there 85 year old history that has Egyptian blood on its hands!!! EGYPTAIN blood not any other blood.
    This is why I rarely post here. It is your country, brother, I know. I merely said what I see. I never hope things will get worse in Egypt or anywhere in Arab countries, but if we say that Sun comes from the West, does it hear us and come from there just because we said so? The same thing happened with Snoop in the Syrian thread. We said what we saw from abroad by expecting that the things will develop there because of the violent reaction of the regime there. He accused us of being anti-Syrians!! Here, I said that it is becoming a second Algeria because of the harsh treatment of the army to the opponents. It is your right to see your army as heroes, but from my objective viewpoint, I never thought the leaders of the army are noble men. They have their own agenda where it may collude with the opinion of the majority, but it is not in their target to be always with the opinion of the majority.

    Anyway, it is not healthy to say that all the Muslim Brothers are terrorists because those terrorists gained the majority in the elections one year ago. Does that make the majority in Egypt pro-terrorists?

    Abed, how are you bro ? Been a long, hope everything is ok with you ;) .
    Salam, Cheesio. How are you, brother? I'm so fine. I left this place for a while because I felt it became politically like Arab forums where you are accused of hating a whole country because you comment on its events. I don't hate anybody (Except Olivera, Abbas and Zionist leaders :)). I merely come here to share my opinion.
     

    Fred

    Senior Member
    Oct 2, 2003
    41,113
    This is why I rarely post here. It is your country, brother, I know. I merely said what I see. I never hope things will get worse in Egypt or anywhere in Arab countries, but if we say that Sun comes from the West, does it hear us and come from there just because we said so? The same thing happened with Snoop in the Syrian thread. We said what we saw from abroad by expecting that the things will develop there because of the violent reaction of the regime there. He accused us of being anti-Syrians!! Here, I said that it is becoming a second Algeria because of the harsh treatment of the army to the opponents. It is your right to see your army as heroes, but from my objective viewpoint, I never thought the leaders of the army are noble men. They have their own agenda where it may collude with the opinion of the majority, but it is not in their target to be always with the opinion of the majority.

    Anyway, it is not healthy to say that all the Muslim Brothers are terrorists because those terrorists gained the majority in the elections one year ago. Does that make the majority in Egypt pro-terrorists?



    Salam, Cheesio. How are you, brother? I'm so fine. I left this place for a while because I felt it became politically like Arab forums where you are accused of hating a whole country because you comment on its events. I don't hate anybody (Except Olivera, Abbas and Zionist leaders :)). I merely come here to share my opinion.

    Abed my man!

    Welcome back bro, hope you've been doing well :)
     

    swag

    L'autista
    Administrator
    Sep 23, 2003
    83,483
    i read that article earlier today at work, there was this funny comment in the bottom that caught my eye:

    'Religion is much like a penis. It's great to have one, and it's perfectly alright to be proud of it. But if you start whipping it out in public, then you have a serious behavioral problem that needs to be addressed. If you try to shove it down people's throats, then you are sick and require treatment.'
    That is sig material. :lol:
     
    Jul 2, 2006
    18,850
    We have suffered a lot from military coups, we don’t want the same for Egypt: Turkish PM

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/we...sh-pm.aspx?pageID=238&nID=50474&NewsCatID=338

    Turkey’s stance regarding the military takeover in Egypt is due to its own recent history, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan explained June 10, raising his rhetoric a notch against the interim rule in the country.

    “A military coup has been staged in Egypt, although they don’t accept it. We have suffered a lot from military coups. We don’t want our Egyptian brothers to suffer from [them] as well. That’s the only matter,” Erdoğan said during a fast-breaking event organized by the civil servants’ union (Memur-Sen) in Ankara.

    “I hope that steps will be taken to end the chaos,” he added.

    Turkey had been the most vocal critic of the military takeover that toppled President Mohamed Morsi, who was elected as the candidate of the Freedom and Justice Party (FJP). The party stood as the political arm of the Muslim Brotherhood, a powerful Islamist organization banned until the fall of Hosni Mubarak in 2011.

    Erdoğan also asked the Egyptian rulers to render account on the killing of 53 pro-Morsi supporters by soldiers on July 8.

    “In no place of the world are those who stage coups remembered with benevolence. At first there are some toadies who emerge, but years after everyone ends up cursing them. That’s also the fate that awaits [those who staged the coup in Egypt],” Erdoğan said, also accusing those who supported the military’s takeover.

    “The coup stagers will sooner or later be tried. Those who keep silent will be ashamed as long as they breathe. And in the end, they will find the people in front of them,” he added, drawing parallels with the period when the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) came to power.

    “Those who intend to conduct operations find the people in front of them. We have said 'That’s enough, the people have the floor.’ The ballot box will make the last decision,” Erdoğan said.
    The prime minister’s speech came a day after the Egyptian Foreign Ministry summoned the Turkish ambassador to Cairo, asking Ankara to “not take sides.” Erdoğan had called on the new rulers of Egypt to immediately release Morsi, in custody at an undisclosed location since he was toppled, in another defiant speech over the week-end.

    July/10/2013
     
    OP

    ReBeL

    The Jackal
    Jan 14, 2005
    22,871
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #2,560
    All is good. Where are you these days?
    Still in Jordan. Nothing changed really. Are you back to Libya?

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    We have suffered a lot from military coups, we don’t want the same for Egypt: Turkish PM

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/we...sh-pm.aspx?pageID=238&nID=50474&NewsCatID=338

    Turkey’s stance regarding the military takeover in Egypt is due to its own recent history, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan explained June 10, raising his rhetoric a notch against the interim rule in the country.

    “A military coup has been staged in Egypt, although they don’t accept it. We have suffered a lot from military coups. We don’t want our Egyptian brothers to suffer from [them] as well. That’s the only matter,” Erdoğan said during a fast-breaking event organized by the civil servants’ union (Memur-Sen) in Ankara.

    “I hope that steps will be taken to end the chaos,” he added.

    Turkey had been the most vocal critic of the military takeover that toppled President Mohamed Morsi, who was elected as the candidate of the Freedom and Justice Party (FJP). The party stood as the political arm of the Muslim Brotherhood, a powerful Islamist organization banned until the fall of Hosni Mubarak in 2011.

    Erdoğan also asked the Egyptian rulers to render account on the killing of 53 pro-Morsi supporters by soldiers on July 8.

    “In no place of the world are those who stage coups remembered with benevolence. At first there are some toadies who emerge, but years after everyone ends up cursing them. That’s also the fate that awaits [those who staged the coup in Egypt],” Erdoğan said, also accusing those who supported the military’s takeover.

    “The coup stagers will sooner or later be tried. Those who keep silent will be ashamed as long as they breathe. And in the end, they will find the people in front of them,” he added, drawing parallels with the period when the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) came to power.

    “Those who intend to conduct operations find the people in front of them. We have said 'That’s enough, the people have the floor.’ The ballot box will make the last decision,” Erdoğan said.
    The prime minister’s speech came a day after the Egyptian Foreign Ministry summoned the Turkish ambassador to Cairo, asking Ankara to “not take sides.” Erdoğan had called on the new rulers of Egypt to immediately release Morsi, in custody at an undisclosed location since he was toppled, in another defiant speech over the week-end.

    July/10/2013
    Great position by Erdoğan so far...
     

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