Edinson Cavani - ST- PSG (25 Viewers)

[Rollie]

I said traps and flops. Dybala could be a trap... but i dont think he will be a super flop. The issue here is the price. And i can compare them because like those i mentioned....everyone had the same opinion of those players in those mercatos (they are young, talented, with potential, etc etc). This summer the sugar boy is Dybala..but the same way there have been some of hem Special mention to Jovetic..who was the darling of everyone here..and he IS talented.. but the deal was impossible to achieve and he turned into an injury trap like some predicted.
What i want to say... is that every seaosn there will be a player that will have everyone creaming their pants and saying the exact same thing you are saying ("wow dybala is so good compared to X and X and X player from last summer)....just to flop some months later.

Im not saying he IS destined tyo flop... but we need to be very cautious. Just remember that a couple seasons ago..we were seeing Jovetic as del Piero{s perfect heir...but the guy turned to be an injury machine. Look a Rossi , look at InMobile.

The Cavani deal is pretty much impossible without selling pOGBA. We need to be clear on that. And very few would like to see Pogba in other colours so soon. But if somehow Beppe can pull it...he should.

I understand that you're cautious of the hype machine, that makes sense. I understand the general point about all of the new South American flavours of the week that you guys are making.

I would never, ever, ever consider selling Pogba to fund a Cavani move. That is some crazy ish, right there. Paul is a very rare breed of player. Not for sale!

Rossi and Jovetic are good players, just crazy injury prone. Rossi's situation is unreal. Iturbe hasn't led a team in the Champions League, or scored 30 goals in Spain. His biggest season wasn't very impressive for me at all.

I just think Dybala is different from all of them.

I don't think he's comparing the players exactly to Dybala but the hype around them was very similar. Now, Dybala definitely seems better (in hindsight) than those from past years. But it always seems so obvious when you look back. Seriously, go to the Iturbe thread and read right around the page where he was flying into Turin or something. You've got people saying we dodged a bullet in Sanchez and were getting the "Vastly superior" player. People saying he was the next Aguero for sure. A sure bet. Etc. But he really was the flavor of the month South American attacker. But we already knew that lol. Beppe so smart.

Definitely remember a little of that, the hype was pretty silly. I get what you guys are saying here, but like I said earlier, I just rate this guy a lot higher than I ever rated Iturbe (and higher than you do). There will always be crazy people on these boards, but at least it's nice that you can find a variety of opinions, I guess

They always have more flair than the last guy that was fapped over. They're always more technical than that last guy so it can't possibly be a bust. We're gonna miss out. Oh, no, we're missing out on the next Aguero. The next Messi. Seriously, this time its totally different, guys.

Meanwhile there's some less-than-sexy Italian kid who has quietly put up similar numbers and we already have an invested interest in him and yet he's last week's flavor. He's just less technical. He's a hothead. He's never gonna be anything but a backup for us. His hype has passed and therefore let's move on. But half his goals are penalties. He's a hothead. Yeah? Well, he's also playing with a squad below his talent level and, again, quietly putting up numbers consistent with Dybala's over the entire year. And he did it the year before. And the year before that. Body of work. Am I saying Berardi is a sure thing? No. I'm saying his "sexiness" and our interest (Tuz's interest) in him died when we signed him. He was already ours so of course he's destined for a career on our bench or for some midtable Serie A club for the rest of his life. Right? He's no longer the sexy name on the market. I'd say Berardi is a Dortmund signing for us. A quiet, under-the-radar signing that could explode. Dybala is a flashy kid in his first decent year and we're talking like he's Aguero at A. Madrid.

Hopefully not a Dortmund signing, a la Immobile, or Mkhitaryan.

This guy definitely isn't a Quaresma type, all flair, no substance. Except for last week, I guess, when Ricardo turned into the Munchen slayer.

Dybala puts himself at the service of the coach, and the club. He's intelligent, his interplay with other technical players is excellent (he and Vazquez have a great understanding), I just think he's a diamond; an opportunity not to be missed. It sounds to me like he want Juventus.

I know that you know I like Berardi, because I mentioned it earlier, and my posts can surely be found in other threads earlier this season, pleased that he would be joining our club. I would like to see him at Juventus. However, we'll have to see if management is convinced by him. That's what matters, and as of right now, from what I've read, everyone has been pretty non-committal on Berardi being here next season.

I just rate Dybala higher than Berardi, and it's not because he's Argentinean and Berardi is Italian. I cheer for the Azzurri, I love our Italian spine, none of that is an issue for me at all. I just think they're different types of players, and that Dybala is ready to play a more influential role at the club right away. He gives us solid insurance if Carlitos leaves after next season. I don't feel the same level of confidence in Domenico right now, but he's friggin' 20! He's going to be a very good player!

In the end, it's about the money and the body of work. Dybala is overhyped for a body of work that is lacking. And his production has fallen off compared to earlier in the year.

I understand that you would like to see a bigger body of work before shelling out big money, I understand that. As for his production falling off, I don't really buy that too much, just because all seasons have their ups and downs; hot and cold streaks are normal.

He only had a goal and an assist in his first 6 games of the year.

In his last 25 games, he's got 12 goals and 9 assists.

In his last 15 games, he's got 6 goals and 5 assists -- and that includes a 4 game streak where he had no goals or assists.

The last 3 games he's got a goal and 3 assists... so his production is back on point. He had a dip in form, which happens to everyone, especially young players.

He's 21, and the 2nd most statistically productive forward in the league! Me likey.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Knowah]

That was from 1 or 2 delusional posters at best.Those same people who said 25m for Sanchez is 'overpaying'.

I apologize for doing this and to those quoted but my point is going to be made.
http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...ellas-Verona?p=4611071&viewfull=1#post4611071

Agreed.

I really like his left footed shots from distance. He can take free kicks which is important. We only have Pirlo and Giovinco capable of doing it. Giovinco never plays and Pirlo can't be on the field forever. Besides I think the kid offers exactly what we need: pace, directness, ability to beata defender or two to create an advantage. With him we might actually be able to counter attack. At last. It's embarrassing that an Italian team can't do that. It's important because we could win games easier in Serie A but in CL most importantly. We're not always the top dogs there.

http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...ellas-Verona?p=4611558&viewfull=1#post4611558

Totally agree with the first part of your post Conte seems like the perfect coach to bring the best out of Iturbe. He's going to become a truly world class player with us I can feel it

http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...ellas-Verona?p=4611580&viewfull=1#post4611580

i actually rate iturbe pretty high. he's not a finished product true, but he is going to turn very good. as a comparison compare pogba in his first season for us to his second season for us. totally different player.

itrube is going to be very good, provided we are patient with him and build his confidence like we did with pogba.


edit: never mind what X says about him being to raw for juve. this is the same guy who said amauri was good even after 1.5 years with us

http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...r-Hellas-Verona/page103?p=4611162#post4611162

Krasic? Really?

Perhaps if Krasic could actually shoot, could actually pass and could really do anything other than run in a straight line and occasionally get lucky with a cross or a weak shot.

This kid is twice the dribbler. He has twice the shot from distance. He's got excellent free kick technique for a 21 yr old. His passing is superb. His finishing could be worked on, but he still scored 8 goals last season as a 20 yr old. And his decision making could be improved at times, but it is still 10x better than the brainlessness that Krasic was the personification of.

http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...ellas-Verona?p=4611240&viewfull=1#post4611240

That must be the worst comparison in years. Krasic can dream about Iturbe's amazing first touch, ball control, and sprinting with the ball at his feet. Every time the Serbian touched the ball, that skipped 3 meters away. With Iturbe it's actually the opposite, but feel free to compare them only because he's fast (only good characteristic Krasic's ever had... Like if he's only the fast player of the world). And has amazing passing, crossing and finish (he must learn to be more selfish, passes the ball too much even to guys in a worse position when he can shoot). Who's followed Serie A and his amazing goals this year knows his finishing.

http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...ellas-Verona?p=4610691&viewfull=1#post4610691

I'm telling ya'll this guy will grow to become one of the top offensive players in the world.

http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...ellas-Verona?p=4615693&viewfull=1#post4615693

+1 very well said my potato eating friend.

We are clearly over-paying for Iturbe, but such is life in this current $#@!ed up transfer market. This guy is very young and has a high ceiling of potential, I for one am pretty excited in seeing a young, South American winger with plenty of flair and fancy in our ranks. Our team badly lacks creativity and pace, this guy (and Coman by the looks of things) can bring something completely different to our team.

I could go on for another 10-15 quotes. Again, apologies to those quoted.

The hype is REAL.

 

[Xperd]

Ofcourse the hype was over the top at the time,i mean why not.

But not in a single post do i see anyone mentioning him being a superior player to Sanchez.Although i do remember who said that.

 

[Linebreak]

He was superior at one point in time before Sanchez caught fire at Udinese and left.

 

[Knowah]

Hopefully not a Dortmund signing, a la Immobile, or Mkhitaryan.

Or Reus, Lewandowski, Gotze, etc. They regularly in recent years have found great young strikers/forwards and have gotten great things from them.

This guy definitely isn't a Quaresma type, all flair, no substance. Except for last week, I guess, when Ricardo turned into the Munchen slayer.

You hope. You hope he's not a Quaresma type. Do you want to gamble 40m on it?

I just think they're different types of players, and that Dybala is ready to play a more influential role at the club right away. He gives us solid insurance if Carlitos leaves after next season.

But that's all guesswork. His body of work is 75% of one season. How can you actually use that small sample to guess he gives solid insurance for a legend like Tevez? Dybala, one season aside, is a nobody, a nothing. He doesn't even have 15 goals and the season is almost over. So what are you basing this guesswork on? Again, I just think there's too much guessing around this kid. He could very well be a flashy in the pan type of youngster and nothing we "see" about him makes him any different than any other youngster who scored 15 goals in a season. Nothing. On that alone, 40m, 30m, even 25m would make him outrageously overpriced. Especially in his last year of a contract.

 

[Xperd]

He was superior at one point in time before Sanchez caught fire at Udinese and left.

What are you even saying man.This was being discussed last yr,when Sanchez was at Barca.

At the time,some people even went on to say Iturbe is better than the Barca version Sanchez the moment he signed for Arsenal.Though you could say those comments reeked of butthurt.

- - - Updated - - -

13 goals and 10 assists(league's best) and with 7 games still left to play and the league's 'almost over'..

Knowah pls

 

[Knowah]

13 goals and 10 assists(league's best) and with 7 games still left to play and the league's 'almost over'..

Knowah pls

Are you saying the season isn't almost over? 7 fixtures to be played over the next 5 weeks. Sounds close to being over to me.

 

[Xperd]

Are you saying the season isn't almost over? 7 fixtures to be played over the next 5 weeks. Sounds close to being over to me.

He doesn't even have 15 goals and the season is almost over

Pretty sure he's going to reach that landmark or even go over it before the season ends.

 

[GrecoJuve]

If he wants to save his career, he should go to Simeone's Atletico. He is the perfect CF for his team.

We will never do this transfer this summer.

 

[Post Ironic]

What are you even saying man.This was being discussed last yr,when Sanchez was at Barca.

At the time,some people even went on to say Iturbe is better than the Barca version Sanchez the moment he signed for Arsenal.Though you could say those comments reeked of butthurt.

That sounds like RUS. I mean, the guy also calls Immobile world class, and Sanchez Barca flop and trash.

I was way off about Iturbe. I think he'll likely still develop into a decent player, especially if he can escape the nightmare in Roma at the moment... Being a winger, and playing without a CF or a 39 year old Totti is probably quite the strange experience for Iturbe. Still, massive flop thus far. I thought he was far better than that. He looked pretty good last year for a 20 year old, seemed similar to Sanchez at 20, and seemed to be developing well. And then Roma happened.

- - - Updated - - -

I apologize for doing this and to those quoted but my point is going to be made.
http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...ellas-Verona?p=4611071&viewfull=1#post4611071

http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...ellas-Verona?p=4611558&viewfull=1#post4611558

http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...ellas-Verona?p=4611580&viewfull=1#post4611580

http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...r-Hellas-Verona/page103?p=4611162#post4611162

http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...ellas-Verona?p=4611240&viewfull=1#post4611240

http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...ellas-Verona?p=4610691&viewfull=1#post4610691

http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...ellas-Verona?p=4615693&viewfull=1#post4615693


I could go on for another 10-15 quotes. Again, apologies to those quoted.

The hype is REAL.

None of those are really that bad. No one there said Iturbe is better than Sanchez. No one said Iturbe will for sure be world class. People said he's better than Krasic. People talked about his good qualities, and at times got a little excited about them. Most of us at different times in the thread back then, suggested 30 mil was overpaying for the kid, and 20 mil would be a more reasonable price, but the market dictates what it dictates. He probably still could develop into a good player in a functioning team. Good, with limitations. The person who was right about Iturbe was X. He was far too raw still to go to a big team. He should have been left at Hellas another year, or loaned out, but a team like Roma isn't going to loan out a 25 mil signing, even if it would have been far better for the kid.

 

[Hydde]

That sounds like RUS. I mean, the guy also calls Immobile world class, and Sanchez Barca flop and trash.

I was way off about Iturbe. I think he'll likely still develop into a decent player, especially if he can escape the nightmare in Roma at the moment... Being a winger, and playing without a CF or a 39 year old Totti is probably quite the strange experience for Iturbe. Still, massive flop thus far. I thought he was far better than that. He looked pretty good last year for a 20 year old, seemed similar to Sanchez at 20, and seemed to be developing well. And then Roma happened.

- - - Updated - - -



None of those are really that bad. No one there said Iturbe is better than Sanchez. No one said Iturbe will for sure be world class. People said he's better than Krasic. People talked about his good qualities, and at times got a little excited about them. Most of us at different times in the thread back then, suggested 30 mil was overpaying for the kid, and 20 mil would be a more reasonable price, but the market dictates what it dictates. He probably still could develop into a good player in a functioning team. Good, with limitations. The person who was right about Iturbe was X. He was far too raw still to go to a big team. He should have been left at Hellas another year, or loaned out, but a team like Roma isn't going to loan out a 25 mil signing, even if it would have been far better for the kid.

The point is not if he was better than sanchez or krasic. The point is that people gets hyped and horno for a couple of months for players that have not been tested over pronounced periods. There will be always someone you will miss in gambles (Verrati), but most of the time this guys could turn into expensive flops.

Verrati was a risk we should have taken...15 mils only... but Dybala is ascending the 30 mils. Even if he turns into the next del piero, tossing 30 mils into the unknown is not Marotta`s way.

 

[Knowah]

None of those are really that bad. No one there said Iturbe is better than Sanchez. No one said Iturbe will for sure be world class. People said he's better than Krasic. People talked about his good qualities, and at times got a little excited about them. Most of us at different times in the thread back then, suggested 30 mil was overpaying for the kid, and 20 mil would be a more reasonable price, but the market dictates what it dictates. He probably still could develop into a good player in a functioning team. Good, with limitations. The person who was right about Iturbe was X. He was far too raw still to go to a big team. He should have been left at Hellas another year, or loaned out, but a team like Roma isn't going to loan out a 25 mil signing, even if it would have been far better for the kid.

This isn't about everybody saying Iturbe was better than Sanchez. One person said that but it's about that perception. It's about the buzzwords used then that we see youngsters put in one good campaign. I'll just go top to bottom. "...going to become truly world class..." , "...going to turn very good... comparison to Pogba in his first season..." , "This kid is twice the dribbler. He has twice the shot from distance. He's got excellent free kick technique for a 21 yr old. His passing is superb." , "And has amazing passing, crossing and finish (he must learn to be more selfish, passes the ball too much even to guys in a worse position when he can shoot). Who's followed Serie A and his amazing goals this year knows his finishing." , "I'm telling ya'll this guy will grow to become one of the top offensive players in the world." , "This guy is very young and has a high ceiling of potential, I for one am pretty excited in seeing a young, South American winger with plenty of flair and fancy in our ranks."

Take out Iturbe and replace with Dybala and you'd think I was quoting word for word every post that is gushing about Dybala and saying we must sign him, even at 30m (lol). The buzzwords are in many ways the same. Before, it was superb passing, known finishing quality, going to beocme world class. Now, we're talking how superior technically Dybala is, he's going to become world class, he makes his teammates better, his superb passing. Let me be clear, there's nothing wrong with speculation and hope, I think both are important. Even the people I've quoted deserve respect in that they're excited about a youngster with huge promise that we might get and that's exciting. The problem is buzzwords are thrown around and suddenly these youngsters are spoken of like they're obvious talent, obvious superstars and we'd be CRAZY to not sign them. How can we not sign such a superior technical player with so much promise like Dybala? That's a problem.

Never mind the fact the kid was a dud last year (when all this Iturbe hype was going on) and that he's basically scored 13 goals (almost half of them against the bottom 3 clubs in the table) and never mind the fact he's insanely overpriced even at 20m. Let's just cool the hype around this kid and recognize that we cannot afford to make such a mistake and, looking at him objectively, he has all the makings of a mistake. Could he turn out to be amazing, maybe. But I'd rather sign Coman, Pogba, and any other number of youngsters who are ending their contracts with huge potential than spend 30m on a youth project.

And I'll say it again because it bears repeating. If this guy was already co-owned by us and Italian with 13 goals, we'd be asking Beppe to put him into a deal for somebody else with a buyback clause like Zaza's. Somebody preferably South American who's really really good looking.

Edit: And as far as your "X was right" comment, you are totally correct. When I went back to read that thread, X is the voice of reason. Saying the price was too steep, saying the kid had shown nothing to deserve 25m + 2m that we were supposedly paying.

 

[Xperd]

To be fair Knowah,its not like Iturbe retired just yesterday.The kid is only 22.

Yeah,he did flop hard but the guy can still reignite himself.If not at Roma,maybe at another team,maybe in the EPL for example where there is plenty of space to operate in.

 

[Knowah]

To be fair Knowah,its not like Iturbe retired just yesterday.The kid is only 22.

Yeah,he did flop hard but the guy can still reignite himself.If not at Roma,maybe at another team,maybe in the EPL for example where there is plenty of space to operate in.

Perhaps, but I think not. Why? Workrate. Look at him at Porto before last year. Look at him now. I see him and I see lazy. He's too lazy. He lacks ambition in that, I believe, he sees Roma as him "making it" and thus he's gotten lazy, his fitness has fallen off and he's flopped.

I mean, the telling sign on Iturbe was huge. Porto let him go. Porto.

 

[Hydde]

Spoiler

This isn't about everybody saying Iturbe was better than Sanchez. One person said that but it's about that perception. It's about the buzzwords used then that we see youngsters put in one good campaign. I'll just go top to bottom. "...going to become truly world class..." , "...going to turn very good... comparison to Pogba in his first season..." , "This kid is twice the dribbler. He has twice the shot from distance. He's got excellent free kick technique for a 21 yr old. His passing is superb." , "And has amazing passing, crossing and finish (he must learn to be more selfish, passes the ball too much even to guys in a worse position when he can shoot). Who's followed Serie A and his amazing goals this year knows his finishing." , "I'm telling ya'll this guy will grow to become one of the top offensive players in the world." , "This guy is very young and has a high ceiling of potential, I for one am pretty excited in seeing a young, South American winger with plenty of flair and fancy in our ranks."

Take out Iturbe and replace with Dybala and you'd think I was quoting word for word every post that is gushing about Dybala and saying we must sign him, even at 30m (lol). The buzzwords are in many ways the same. Before, it was superb passing, known finishing quality, going to beocme world class. Now, we're talking how superior technically Dybala is, he's going to become world class, he makes his teammates better, his superb passing. Let me be clear, there's nothing wrong with speculation and hope, I think both are important. Even the people I've quoted deserve respect in that they're excited about a youngster with huge promise that we might get and that's exciting. The problem is buzzwords are thrown around and suddenly these youngsters are spoken of like they're obvious talent, obvious superstars and we'd be CRAZY to not sign them. How can we not sign such a superior technical player with so much promise like Dybala? That's a problem.

Never mind the fact the kid was a dud last year (when all this Iturbe hype was going on) and that he's basically scored 13 goals (almost half of them against the bottom 3 clubs in the table) and never mind the fact he's insanely overpriced even at 20m. Let's just cool the hype around this kid and recognize that we cannot afford to make such a mistake and, looking at him objectively, he has all the makings of a mistake. Could he turn out to be amazing, maybe. But I'd rather sign Coman, Pogba, and any other number of youngsters who are ending their contracts with huge potential than spend 30m on a youth project.

And I'll say it again because it bears repeating. If this guy was already co-owned by us and Italian with 13 goals, we'd be asking Beppe to put him into a deal for somebody else with a buyback clause like Zaza's. Somebody preferably South American who's really really good looking.

Edit: And as far as your "X was right" comment, you are totally correct. When I went back to read that thread, X is the voice of reason. Saying the price was too steep, saying the kid had shown nothing to deserve 25m + 2m that we were supposedly paying.

Damn..

To be fair Knowah,its not like Iturbe retired just yesterday.The kid is only 22.

Yeah,he did flop hard but the guy can still reignite himself.If not at Roma,maybe at another team,maybe in the EPL for example where there is plenty of space to operate in.

Yeah why not. There are players that blossom in their late 20s. But the damage, money wise...is already done for Roma. If they sell him for 18 mils, they should consider themselves lucky and reinvest.

The point is, we should be craeful.

 

[Robee]

I would never, ever, ever consider selling Pogba to fund a Cavani move. That is some crazy ish, right there. Paul is a very rare breed of player. Not for sale!

There's no denying Paul is a very special player, but his importance for Juventus as a team is hugely overestimated sometimes. And the gap between him or for instance Verratti is not at all that big, while the latter is probably valued at 50 mil, somewhere half the Paul Pogba mark. So if someone offers 85-90 mil, we simply can not refuse.

 

[zizinho]

that post sucks so much i dont even want to quote it

 

[Siamak]

There's no denying Paul is a very special player, but his importance for Juventus as a team is hugely overestimated sometimes. And the gap between him or for instance Verratti is not at all that big, while the latter is probably valued at 50 mil, somewhere half the Paul Pogba mark. So if someone offers 85-90 mil, we simply can not refuse.

Pogba will be worth more than €120 million before this summer and he isn't going anywhere.we keep him we arent selling club.

 

[Hydde]

Pogba will be worth more than €120 million before this summer and he isn't going anywhere.we keep him we arent selling club.

Lets hope so. But that remains to be seen because Juventus has not received that kind of money blasting deals since Zidane. Even Madrid, which is not a selling team...sold Dimaria for the right price.

Lets wait and see. But whatever happens...we need to remember that Marotta and co. are no idiots. If they make a move in Pogba´s case, whatever it is...will be because they have a well thought plan.

Thats what i want to believe

 

[Hust]

I apologize for doing this and to those quoted but my point is going to be made.
http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...ellas-Verona?p=4611071&viewfull=1#post4611071

http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...ellas-Verona?p=4611558&viewfull=1#post4611558

http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...ellas-Verona?p=4611580&viewfull=1#post4611580

http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...r-Hellas-Verona/page103?p=4611162#post4611162

http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...ellas-Verona?p=4611240&viewfull=1#post4611240

http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...ellas-Verona?p=4610691&viewfull=1#post4610691

http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/3...ellas-Verona?p=4615693&viewfull=1#post4615693


I could go on for another 10-15 quotes. Again, apologies to those quoted.

The hype is REAL.

Great dig work, my friend.