This guy definitely isn't a Quaresma type, all flair, no substance. Except for last week, I guess, when Ricardo turned into the Munchen slayer. 
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Edinson Cavani - ST- PSG (23 Viewers)
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Funny to bring up Ricardo Quasimodo in a Cavani thread. Like Quaresma, who excels at Porto and struggled elsewhere, Cavani needs to go back to Napoli. He'll never be that good anywhere else.
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Great dig work, my friend.
One quote says "Conte seems like the perfect coach to bring the best out of Iturbe". This has neither been disproved so far nor can you generally tell that Iturbe would have sucked at our side as much as in Rome. All you know for a fact is that Iturbe sucks at AS Roma. Every thought beyond that is merely a conclusion.
you talking about zidane! when we sold zidane We were able to bring in buffon, thuram, and nedved.can you imagine that happening if we sell pogba?
real dont need to di maria.they have ronaldo and bale.they have been paid 100 million euros for bale! they are able to keep hold their top players.their quality dont drop with sell di maria.
if we dont able to to hold on to Pogba we can keep him for more seasons. after we can make decision about him
real dont need to di maria.they have ronaldo and bale.they have been paid 100 million euros for bale! they are able to keep hold their top players.their quality dont drop with sell di maria.
if we dont able to to hold on to Pogba we can keep him for more seasons. after we can make decision about him
And not only that, not one of the posts he dug up were really that bad either. It's not like there was major 
over Iturbe, it was just posts made by people who were excited that we were possibly signing a young winger who had a pretty good debut season in Serie A. No one was really proclaiming him to be better than Sanchez etc (OK maybe one or two posters did, but not in the posts he quoted)
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You're dreaming if you think we'll be able to sign 3-4 WC players with Pogba's sale
over Iturbe, it was just posts made by people who were excited that we were possibly signing a young winger who had a pretty good debut season in Serie A. No one was really proclaiming him to be better than Sanchez etc (OK maybe one or two posters did, but not in the posts he quoted)- - - Updated - - -
You're dreaming if you think we'll be able to sign 3-4 WC players with Pogba's sale
Im saying that if we keep pogba, is because the board is confident in their ability to build a team to seriously compete in the CL next season as a true contender, without having to rely on lucky draws etc.
And if they sell him, which we all dont want, is because something big will go on, and they have taken the respective measures
And if they sell him, which we all dont want, is because something big will go on, and they have taken the respective measures
They sure have. I chat about Dortmund on the daily, as my 65 y/o tech at work played in their youth setup (before he got injured, so the story goes). They're just a fun team in general... to watch, talk about, etc. I just meant that their recent big business, well, it's not been the business, if you follow.
Nah. Because I've watched the kid, read his interviews, and read what people close to him have said about him. Because we KNOW what already happened to Quaresma. They're not the same player. He's already done MUCH MUCH more than Quaresma ever did in Serie A.
I don't have 40M, nor would I pay 40M cash if I were Juventus -- as I said in previous posts (I am a gambling man, though, and yes, I would bet 40M that he'll have a better career than Ricardo Quaresma -- provided he doesn't lose a limb, or something). I think the fact that it's been admitted we've made an offer means that Beppe ranks this guy as being worthy of his most expensive transfer ever for the club. Which should make some people think a little bit too, yeah?
Do you trust in Beppe? Hmmm?
25-30M and an unwanted player is something that makes sense to me. Depends on the player, on the outgoing salary, etc. Zampa has already admitted that he would take a piece, depending on who it is. We have access to a lot of pieces. Of course, from what I read today, it sounds like others are interested and we're probably priced out of this, as expected.
Anyway, it's always a risk operating in this price range, but even if Dybala didn't fit in and we sold him a couple years later, with amortization, the loss on the books probably wouldn't be that significant. This kid is very intelligent, and very hard working. Barring injury, his value isn't going to drop off a cliff, even if he doesn't set Turin on fire. Somebody else will be willing to take a chance on him, he's got obvious quality and he's a team oriented guy.
I would love to bet you some cash, regarding the quality of this player. I would love to bet you $100 right now, that in two years Paulo Dybala is widely acknowledged as a star player. Too bad you live so far away.
In this conversation, to say it's ALL guesswork is almost insulting to me, because it's basically saying I have no ability to evaluate a player's quality. That's fine, we don't know each other, but I've watched enough of this guy to see his quality, and how he comports himself on the pitch. He is mature, he is intelligent, he is hardworking. He is at the service of the team. He says the right things in interviews, and people say great things about him.
I gotta tell you, it's strange that you've set some arbitrary number of goals as a standard, when he also has 13 assists this year -- playing for that offensive juggernaut, in Sicily. I remember during our match, the announcer was talking about how they hadn't scored in 300+ minutes, or something like that. Thinking back to the situation, oh -- that's right -- when Dybala didn't produce anything for that four game stretch I mentioned in that previous post, Palermo didn't score a goal. For like 4 games and 60 minutes. Nothing. Who scored the last goal before the streak began? Who scored the goal that ended the scoreless streak?
You'll never be able to guess.
More than the goals though, he also makes the players around him better -- and that's why this isn't really about goals. It's about the entire package, which is why he's worth a hefty price. He has potential to be a class professional, in all facets of the title. Anyway, I would love to see a fluid attack with he and Marota; I think they would be sick together.
Good point. How's Dybala's work rate?
I think there's just so much untapped potential still though, Robee. You're right, in that Verratti is an excellent player, and of course life at Juventus will go on whenever Pogba leaves, regardless of what we get in return. We got the player for free, the future of the club does not depend on selling him. We've covered his injury decently enough right now, and that's with Marchisio and Pirlo both having blips in their health, and Asa being totally unavailable.
I would refuse 85-90M right now, provided he wants to stay. The team is balanced for next season, for sure, and we won't be able to upgrade that position if we sell him. If we keep him, I believe he only improves for the next few years.
This team could make a few deep CL runs, if the stars align. The rest of the team is pretty solid, and we're not exactly poor right now, so we will be seeing a significant investment in an offensive player, even without a sale.
So true. I brought Ricardo up, because he is basically the poster child for how flawed a YouTube player review can be. Before he transferred to Inter, I hadn't seen much of him other than his vids (streams were fewer and shittier, for sure), and I was a little disappointed they got him.
Then we saw how he imploded, and it was... so beautiful...
He was in pretty much the perfect place. I think he would have been a huge success at Juventus, because we would have given him the continuity he requires, and because he would have been in a fantastic environment with a couple of legends -- which will keep those feet grounded, and is always a good learning experience.
Doubt we'll see him at that level again, but he does still have a few really good years left, provided he puts in the work. It's not impossible, I guess.
Nah. Because I've watched the kid, read his interviews, and read what people close to him have said about him. Because we KNOW what already happened to Quaresma. They're not the same player. He's already done MUCH MUCH more than Quaresma ever did in Serie A.
I don't have 40M, nor would I pay 40M cash if I were Juventus -- as I said in previous posts (I am a gambling man, though, and yes, I would bet 40M that he'll have a better career than Ricardo Quaresma -- provided he doesn't lose a limb, or something). I think the fact that it's been admitted we've made an offer means that Beppe ranks this guy as being worthy of his most expensive transfer ever for the club. Which should make some people think a little bit too, yeah?
Do you trust in Beppe? Hmmm?
25-30M and an unwanted player is something that makes sense to me. Depends on the player, on the outgoing salary, etc. Zampa has already admitted that he would take a piece, depending on who it is. We have access to a lot of pieces. Of course, from what I read today, it sounds like others are interested and we're probably priced out of this, as expected.
Anyway, it's always a risk operating in this price range, but even if Dybala didn't fit in and we sold him a couple years later, with amortization, the loss on the books probably wouldn't be that significant. This kid is very intelligent, and very hard working. Barring injury, his value isn't going to drop off a cliff, even if he doesn't set Turin on fire. Somebody else will be willing to take a chance on him, he's got obvious quality and he's a team oriented guy.
I would love to bet you some cash, regarding the quality of this player. I would love to bet you $100 right now, that in two years Paulo Dybala is widely acknowledged as a star player. Too bad you live so far away.
In this conversation, to say it's ALL guesswork is almost insulting to me, because it's basically saying I have no ability to evaluate a player's quality.
That's fine, we don't know each other, but I've watched enough of this guy to see his quality, and how he comports himself on the pitch. He is mature, he is intelligent, he is hardworking. He is at the service of the team. He says the right things in interviews, and people say great things about him. I gotta tell you, it's strange that you've set some arbitrary number of goals as a standard, when he also has 13 assists this year -- playing for that offensive juggernaut, in Sicily. I remember during our match, the announcer was talking about how they hadn't scored in 300+ minutes, or something like that. Thinking back to the situation, oh -- that's right -- when Dybala didn't produce anything for that four game stretch I mentioned in that previous post, Palermo didn't score a goal. For like 4 games and 60 minutes. Nothing. Who scored the last goal before the streak began? Who scored the goal that ended the scoreless streak?
You'll never be able to guess.
More than the goals though, he also makes the players around him better -- and that's why this isn't really about goals. It's about the entire package, which is why he's worth a hefty price. He has potential to be a class professional, in all facets of the title. Anyway, I would love to see a fluid attack with he and Marota; I think they would be sick together.
Good point. How's Dybala's work rate?
I think there's just so much untapped potential still though, Robee. You're right, in that Verratti is an excellent player, and of course life at Juventus will go on whenever Pogba leaves, regardless of what we get in return. We got the player for free, the future of the club does not depend on selling him. We've covered his injury decently enough right now, and that's with Marchisio and Pirlo both having blips in their health, and Asa being totally unavailable.
I would refuse 85-90M right now, provided he wants to stay. The team is balanced for next season, for sure, and we won't be able to upgrade that position if we sell him. If we keep him, I believe he only improves for the next few years.
This team could make a few deep CL runs, if the stars align. The rest of the team is pretty solid, and we're not exactly poor right now, so we will be seeing a significant investment in an offensive player, even without a sale.
So true. I brought Ricardo up, because he is basically the poster child for how flawed a YouTube player review can be. Before he transferred to Inter, I hadn't seen much of him other than his vids (streams were fewer and shittier, for sure), and I was a little disappointed they got him.
Then we saw how he imploded, and it was... so beautiful...
He was in pretty much the perfect place. I think he would have been a huge success at Juventus, because we would have given him the continuity he requires, and because he would have been in a fantastic environment with a couple of legends -- which will keep those feet grounded, and is always a good learning experience.
Doubt we'll see him at that level again, but he does still have a few really good years left, provided he puts in the work. It's not impossible, I guess.
No doubt in that respect. But most clubs will have swings of good and bad transfers.
Well, now, let's not have revisionist history. Quaresma wasn't some garbage player nobody knew about who suddenly was bought by Inter. He had two good years at Porto (20 goals in 61 matches) and two decent seasons at Beşiktaş (18 goals in 73 matches). As a winger. So he showed signs.
Nobody has said this kid won't be better than Quaresma. That's not the argument or discussion but who can truly tell? We better not be trying to buy this player only hoping he's better than Quaresma. Haha, we're hoping he's a superstar. And I would probably agree that he looks like he might, might have a better career but who care truly say.
The few sources I have seen that say we've offered for Dybala are Tuttosport and Calciomercato. And even if we've offered for the kid, we offered for Iturbe. Beppe isn't infallible.
Yes, because, up to this point, Beppe hasn't risked 20m on a nobody who hasn't proven anything to any significant degree.
Like Diego, Martinez, etc? Forget accountant speak, the loss in morale amongst the supporters, the lack of confidence in Beppe to make future deals on youngsters, many things beyond an accounts figure would be effected by such a failure. Not to mention the fact that, regardless of amortization, we don't have 20m to just throw around and if it misses "probably" not take a significant loss. Fact is, from what I've read about our books, missing out on a 20m signing wouldn't exactly be a brush on the chin to our finances. You know?
These are buzzwords(phrases). This has been a great discussion so don't take this the wrong way but if you (or I or anybody on this site) knew what we were talking about, we wouldn't be talking about it on an internet forum. We'd be talking about it in a conference room with Beppe and Agnelli. Fact is, these guys supposedly know what they're talking about and have scouts to call on who know what they're talking about and they get this $#@! wrong all the times. Transfers go wrong by the thousands every summer. So it is not all cut and dry, obvious talent, etc. If it was, why did they even play the Porto v. Bayern match last week? It was obvious Bayern was the stronger side. Everything doesn't work out like that. Young, driven, very intelligent kids $#@! up and fall apart YEARLY in football. Promisng youngsters turn into the Macheda's of last year in a heartbeat. And that's kind of been my whole point. The experts mess up and GUESS wrong all the time. So, obviously, it's possible here. That's just a fact.
I would take this bet if you'd make it as long as we decide on what the term "star player" means. Not because I am hoping or believe Dybala won't become a "star player" but because the statistical probability is HUGELY in my favor. That's like 7 in 10 odds for me he won't become a "star player." But are you talking Aguero, Hazard star player? What does the phrase "Star player" actually mean and how do you gauge whether or not somebody is a star player? Any player on Real Madrid's starting 11 and most of their bench would qualify as a star player in 98% of the world's clubs. Are they the star player of Real Madrid? Nope. Hell, Bale and James Rodriguez aren't even the "Star player" at Madrid. I would say Ronaldo, Ramos, Kroos would be star players ahead of them.
Again, don't that this the wrong way because this has been a great discussion and you've been great. But, it's almost insulting that you think you're infallible on this. I'm not saying you have no ability to evaluate a player's quality. I'm saying if the experts who evaluate players as their profession do it and $#@! up all the time (hundreds of times a transfer window, teams buy duds and failures and youngsters turn into nobodies, so many I cannot name them all) what makes you think you can look at Dybala and you are 100% right on this? Or that you are so right, you'd spend over 20m on it? How can you say that just thinking of that last few years and how many flops have come around in football? No offense, but I don't think you're as good as the professionals at evaluating talent. #sorrynotsorry
The 15 goal number is pretty arbitrary, I'll admit but it's not some number needed to be good for me. It just ends in a 5 and I like that it's a nice whole number and he's near that number. 15 goals. Like 20 goals. Like 25. 30. Etc. Funny thing is, its still only 15 goals. And he's the main striker (really only striker) bagging goals this year on Palermo. Vázquez has like 7 but other than that, it's just him. And its 13. Maybe when I think of breakout year for a superstar striking talent bagging goals, I set the bar too lofty and think of 05-06 Aguero scoring 18 goals in 36 matches for Independiente. Dybala is already at 30 matches this year and he had 27 appearances last year with 3 goals. 11 of them starts.
And, that's a nice story but it's purely anecdotal though. Tell me that same story but from last season... when he did the same thing for that juggernaut in Sicily. You'll never be able to guess.
It doesn't exist. And, trust me, Dybala existed in Sicily last year.
Again, no offense, but these are buzzwords and phrases. What do they really mean? Does he make Vázquez better than he was previously? Vázquez averages 0.23 goals per appearance this year, 0.3 assists. Last year, Vázquez averaged 0.22 goals per appearance, 0.27 assists and Dybala was on the team and doing nothing. Sounds like Vázquez is about the same. That;s obviously stats which can mean whatever you want them to mean so I agree it beyond goals and assists. But it's also beyond buzzwords that hold no meaning.
Does Dybala really hold the room together, man?
Slightly above average. But that's really a personal opinion and subjective as I'm not a professional scout. Some people can sit and watch Alexis Sanchez and say he's not as good as people think. Other people watch Alexis Sanchez and say he's a really good player who's better than people think. Who's right? Who's wrong?
Cheers for the good discussion.
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I love that you didn't include the rest of the Conte quote where the dude says he can feel Iturbe will become world class.
Not really that bad? Like "truly world class" or "this guy will grow to become one of the top offensive talents in the world" not bad?
The fap was pretty great, to be honest. But, hey, we've all had our moments. I still fap over Dzeko and Lazar Marković daily.
Well, now, let's not have revisionist history. Quaresma wasn't some garbage player nobody knew about who suddenly was bought by Inter. He had two good years at Porto (20 goals in 61 matches) and two decent seasons at Beşiktaş (18 goals in 73 matches). As a winger. So he showed signs.
Nobody has said this kid won't be better than Quaresma. That's not the argument or discussion but who can truly tell? We better not be trying to buy this player only hoping he's better than Quaresma. Haha, we're hoping he's a superstar. And I would probably agree that he looks like he might, might have a better career but who care truly say.
The few sources I have seen that say we've offered for Dybala are Tuttosport and Calciomercato. And even if we've offered for the kid, we offered for Iturbe. Beppe isn't infallible.
Yes, because, up to this point, Beppe hasn't risked 20m on a nobody who hasn't proven anything to any significant degree.
Like Diego, Martinez, etc? Forget accountant speak, the loss in morale amongst the supporters, the lack of confidence in Beppe to make future deals on youngsters, many things beyond an accounts figure would be effected by such a failure. Not to mention the fact that, regardless of amortization, we don't have 20m to just throw around and if it misses "probably" not take a significant loss. Fact is, from what I've read about our books, missing out on a 20m signing wouldn't exactly be a brush on the chin to our finances. You know?
These are buzzwords(phrases). This has been a great discussion so don't take this the wrong way but if you (or I or anybody on this site) knew what we were talking about, we wouldn't be talking about it on an internet forum. We'd be talking about it in a conference room with Beppe and Agnelli. Fact is, these guys supposedly know what they're talking about and have scouts to call on who know what they're talking about and they get this $#@! wrong all the times. Transfers go wrong by the thousands every summer. So it is not all cut and dry, obvious talent, etc. If it was, why did they even play the Porto v. Bayern match last week? It was obvious Bayern was the stronger side. Everything doesn't work out like that. Young, driven, very intelligent kids $#@! up and fall apart YEARLY in football. Promisng youngsters turn into the Macheda's of last year in a heartbeat. And that's kind of been my whole point. The experts mess up and GUESS wrong all the time. So, obviously, it's possible here. That's just a fact.
I would take this bet if you'd make it as long as we decide on what the term "star player" means. Not because I am hoping or believe Dybala won't become a "star player" but because the statistical probability is HUGELY in my favor. That's like 7 in 10 odds for me he won't become a "star player." But are you talking Aguero, Hazard star player? What does the phrase "Star player" actually mean and how do you gauge whether or not somebody is a star player? Any player on Real Madrid's starting 11 and most of their bench would qualify as a star player in 98% of the world's clubs. Are they the star player of Real Madrid? Nope. Hell, Bale and James Rodriguez aren't even the "Star player" at Madrid. I would say Ronaldo, Ramos, Kroos would be star players ahead of them.
Again, don't that this the wrong way because this has been a great discussion and you've been great. But, it's almost insulting that you think you're infallible on this. I'm not saying you have no ability to evaluate a player's quality. I'm saying if the experts who evaluate players as their profession do it and $#@! up all the time (hundreds of times a transfer window, teams buy duds and failures and youngsters turn into nobodies, so many I cannot name them all) what makes you think you can look at Dybala and you are 100% right on this? Or that you are so right, you'd spend over 20m on it? How can you say that just thinking of that last few years and how many flops have come around in football? No offense, but I don't think you're as good as the professionals at evaluating talent. #sorrynotsorry
The 15 goal number is pretty arbitrary, I'll admit but it's not some number needed to be good for me. It just ends in a 5 and I like that it's a nice whole number and he's near that number. 15 goals. Like 20 goals. Like 25. 30. Etc. Funny thing is, its still only 15 goals. And he's the main striker (really only striker) bagging goals this year on Palermo. Vázquez has like 7 but other than that, it's just him. And its 13. Maybe when I think of breakout year for a superstar striking talent bagging goals, I set the bar too lofty and think of 05-06 Aguero scoring 18 goals in 36 matches for Independiente. Dybala is already at 30 matches this year and he had 27 appearances last year with 3 goals. 11 of them starts.
And, that's a nice story but it's purely anecdotal though. Tell me that same story but from last season... when he did the same thing for that juggernaut in Sicily. You'll never be able to guess.
It doesn't exist. And, trust me, Dybala existed in Sicily last year.
Again, no offense, but these are buzzwords and phrases. What do they really mean? Does he make Vázquez better than he was previously? Vázquez averages 0.23 goals per appearance this year, 0.3 assists. Last year, Vázquez averaged 0.22 goals per appearance, 0.27 assists and Dybala was on the team and doing nothing. Sounds like Vázquez is about the same. That;s obviously stats which can mean whatever you want them to mean so I agree it beyond goals and assists. But it's also beyond buzzwords that hold no meaning.
Does Dybala really hold the room together, man?
Slightly above average. But that's really a personal opinion and subjective as I'm not a professional scout. Some people can sit and watch Alexis Sanchez and say he's not as good as people think. Other people watch Alexis Sanchez and say he's a really good player who's better than people think. Who's right? Who's wrong?
Cheers for the good discussion.
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I love that you didn't include the rest of the Conte quote where the dude says he can feel Iturbe will become world class.
And not only that, not one of the posts he dug up were really that bad either. It's not like there was major over Iturbe, it was just posts made by people who were excited that we were possibly signing a young winger who had a pretty good debut season in Serie A. No one was really proclaiming him to be better than Sanchez etc (OK maybe one or two posters did, but not in the posts he quoted)
over Iturbe, it was just posts made by people who were excited that we were possibly signing a young winger who had a pretty good debut season in Serie A. No one was really proclaiming him to be better than Sanchez etc (OK maybe one or two posters did, but not in the posts he quoted)
The fap was pretty great, to be honest. But, hey, we've all had our moments. I still fap over Dzeko and Lazar Marković daily.
Thank you 
Been saying this for a very long time. it's not just because he's being playing out of position in PSG a that's why he's not doing well. The guy can't score the easiest of chances in front of goal. For a player who's considered a top striker out there, that's simply a joke.
I'll bet right now, if Cavani moves to an English club (hopefully) the English press will have a field day with all his easy chances misses.
Been saying this for a very long time. it's not just because he's being playing out of position in PSG a that's why he's not doing well. The guy can't score the easiest of chances in front of goal. For a player who's considered a top striker out there, that's simply a joke.
I'll bet right now, if Cavani moves to an English club (hopefully) the English press will have a field day with all his easy chances misses.
Except, Quaresma basically sucked elsewhere other than Porto. While Cavani is at worst 'not as good' as he was at Napoli. His numbers aren't bad at all. He may miss those sitters, but he still has good number of goals to his name. 6 CL goals this season, all but one of them basically got points for PSG. So yeah, not a Quaresma. If Quaresma had that kind of influence, he wouldn't be back at Porto after travelling half the world.
Thank you
Been saying this for a very long time. it's not just because he's being playing out of position in PSG a that's why he's not doing well. The guy can't score the easiest of chances in front of goal. For a player who's considered a top striker out there, that's simply a joke.
I'll bet right now, if Cavani moves to an English club (hopefully) the English press will have a field day with all his easy chances misses.
Been saying this for a very long time. it's not just because he's being playing out of position in PSG a that's why he's not doing well. The guy can't score the easiest of chances in front of goal. For a player who's considered a top striker out there, that's simply a joke.
I'll bet right now, if Cavani moves to an English club (hopefully) the English press will have a field day with all his easy chances misses.
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