Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (181 Viewers)

[lgorTudor]

None of that.

Concerning the first one, I don't know how you extracted that from my post.
The second one is way too specific already.

Let me put this way, do you know of any tribe, society, whatever, that does not have some sort of religion, spiritiuality; some sort of gods, demons, pantheism, spirits, etc? Even the intuitive, counter-rational believe in things such as fate or jinxing is evidence of a natural tendency to attribute things seen or experienced to something other than what can be rationally explained. Over time, social incluences,...these things develop into full-fledged religions that have to be taught, but the roots can be seen as innate to mankind.

There are enough non-creationist ancient or contemporary 'religions'. In my initial posting I referred to creationism (and I think you could see that from my 'man in the sky who created the earth while observing if you eat pork'-expression)

@Enron sry I havent seen your posting before submitting mine. pls no ban

 

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[Ocelot]

There are enough non-creationist ancient or contemporary 'religions'. In my initial posting I referred to creationism (and I think you could see that from my 'man in the sky who created the earth while observing if you eat pork'-expression)

@Enron sry I havent seen your posting before submitting mine. pls no ban

Final post on the subject frome me, sorry I misunderstood you partly. Still, creationism can definitely spring up naturally, otherwise, how would it have come into existence (dozens of times, and independently from each other) in the first place?

Again, final post from me.

 

[Seven]

Oh shit, forgot

And what the hell man, with the same argument I could argue that virtually no one ever killed in the name of religion (and in fact I do believe that with lot of the wars/murders committed "in the name of religion", religion often did not play the dominant role).

For a concrete example, the Chapel Hill shooting!



Actually some psychologists attribute humans to have a natural tendency to intuitively believe in some sort of higher power. Of course not in the form of concrete religions if left uninfluenced, but still.

I look at what the killer says is his reason. No one says they kill people because there is no God. That's why I excluded dictators who might oppose religion for some reason, but didn't exactly kill in the name of there being no god either.

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None of that.

Concerning the first one, I don't know how you extracted that from my post.
The second one is way too specific already.

Let me put this way, do you know of any tribe, society, whatever, that does not have some sort of religion, spiritiuality; some sort of gods, demons, pantheism, spirits, etc? Even the intuitive, counter-rational believe in things such as fate or jinxing is evidence of a natural tendency to attribute things seen or experienced to something other than what can be rationally explained. Over time, social incluences,...these things develop into full-fledged religions that have to be taught, but the roots can be seen as innate to mankind.

People need religion, because otherwise you're powerless. With it, God can help you out. He can cure you from disease and in the event you die he offers you heaven.

Things start to change when people actually cure disease and know where it comes from. Sure, you could still argue there is a higher being. But it won't be Allah and it won't be a Christian god either, because the Quran and Bible are factually incorrect. Especially with the Quran that presents us with a logical problem, as it is supposed to be the word from the big kahuna burger himself.

 

[king Ale]

For a concrete example, the Chapel Hill shooting.

I disagree about Chapel Hill.

Yesterday's Oregon shooting is a good example though

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Aah... this thread!

It's been a while.

 

[Martin]

None of that.

Concerning the first one, I don't know how you extracted that from my post.
The second one is way too specific already.

Let me put this way, do you know of any tribe, society, whatever, that does not have some sort of religion, spiritiuality; some sort of gods, demons, pantheism, spirits, etc? Even the intuitive, counter-rational believe in things such as fate or jinxing is evidence of a natural tendency to attribute things seen or experienced to something other than what can be rationally explained. Over time, social incluences,...these things develop into full-fledged religions that have to be taught, but the roots can be seen as innate to mankind.

That's not exactly the same thing as a higher power though. You're bending the term a bit much now.

 

[Seven]

That's not exactly the same thing as a higher power though. You're bending the term a bit much now.

But he's right: I can't think of a single primitive society that didn't know gods.

 

[Ocelot]

That's not exactly the same thing as a higher power though. You're bending the term a bit much now.

True, that's why I started that sentence with "even" My main point anyways was that religion, in its most primitive form, is anything but something that needs to be indoctrined via education or social influences.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Yes

 

[Martin]

True, that's why I started that sentence with "even" My main point anyways was that religion, in its most primitive form, is anything but something that needs to be indoctrined via education or social influences.

It depends a bit on what exactly you're claiming here, but just because humans have a natural tendency towards magical thinking when there are aspects of their lives they don't understand doesn't mean that shamans, priests and ultimately organized religion haven't made a big difference. Without that some people would be more prone to it and some less so, but to get them to act more or less as one and believe in one common set of creeds is another story.

It's like violence. All of us have a tendency towards violence, but it's not for nothing that the military operates the way it does to leverage it towards its own goals.

 

[Seven]

It depends a bit on what exactly you're claiming here, but just because humans have a natural tendency towards magical thinking when there are aspects of their lives they don't understand doesn't mean that shamans, priests and ultimately organized religion haven't made a big difference. Without that some people would be more prone to it and some less so, but to get them to act more or less as one and believe in one common set of creeds is another story.

It's like violence. All of us have a tendency towards violence, but it's not for nothing that the military operates the way it does to leverage it towards its own goals.

You need that innate magical thinking to be able to create organized religion though. If muslims wouldn't be able to believe in fairy tales, they wouldn't be muslims,

Also note that having to pray a set amount of times a day is ocd.