Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (9 Viewers)

[Lapa]

This thread only causes an brain error to me. Have fun.

 

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[Juventino[RUS]]

you laughing at everything like a stupid child, neither makes people take you seriously nor respect you

---------- Post added 12.08.2012 at 11:02 ----------



no thats how you and secular society see it

No, that's how people around you will react if you will say to them that you can talk with god

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Its not but inference shows that those who were chosen were chosen for a purpose and longevity was needed.

That's a nice assumption backed up by nothing.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

This thread only causes an brain error to me. Have fun.

You mad ?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

That's a nice assumption backed up by nothing.

If you say so. I will say this friend if you think that everything will have clean cut answers and all will be answered then you will have a sad and desperate existence. There are things that will never be answered and things that we will never comprehend.

---------- Post added 12.08.2012 at 11:07 ----------

The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus writes the following about this subject:

"Now when Noah had lived three hundred and fifty years after the Flood, and that all that time happily, he died, having lived the number of nine hundred and fifty years. But let no one, upon comparing the lives of the ancients with our lives, and with the few years which we now live, think that what we have said of them is false; or make the shortness of our lives at present an argument, that neither did they attain to so long a duration of life, for those ancients were beloved of God, and [lately] made by God himself; and because their food was then fitter for the prolongation of life, might well live so great a number of years: and besides, God afforded them a longer time of life on account of their virtue, and the good use they made of it in astronomical and geometrical discoveries, which would not have afforded the time of foretelling [the periods of the stars] unless they had lived six hundred years; for the great year is completed in that interval.

"Now I have for witnesses to what I have said, all those that have written Antiquities, both among the Greeks and barbarians; for even Manetho, who wrote the Egyptian History, and Berosus, who collected the Chaldean Monuments, and Mochus, and Hestieus, and, besides these, Hieronymus the Egyptian . . besides these, Ephorus and Nicolaus relate that the ancients lived a thousand years." (Antiquities of the Jews, Book 1, Chapter 3)

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

If you say so. I will say this friend if you think that everything will have clean cut answers and all will be answered then you will have a sad and desperate existence. There are things that will never be answered and things that we will never comprehend.

bible
genesis, 6
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me, because the earth is filled with violence through them: and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
You all mighty god is so cute :toast:

19 bring into the ark all animals, and of all flesh on the pair, so they stayed with you in the living, male and female that they may be.
MM so where the hell is dinosaurs/behemoths?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

bible
genesis, 6
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me, because the earth is filled with violence through them: and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
You all mighty god is so cute :toast:

19 bring into the ark all animals, and of all flesh on the pair, so they stayed with you in the living, male and female that they may be.
MM so where the hell is dinosaurs/behemoths?

they were gone before the ark

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

they were gone before the ark

Oops but i didn't notice any word about them in previous 5 genesis

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Oops but i didn't notice any word about them in previous 5 genesis

You wouldnt notice it if you read it a thousand times, you see what you want to see you hear what you want to hear! You're mind is not even remotely open to the possibility that you could be wrong. At least Sheik somewhere in his mind and heart knows there is this possibility, but you could see God with your own eyes and still reject it. So why discuss something when you are feeble minded and closed to all possibilities except your own?

 

[ZoSo]

Atheism, just like Christianity, has a broad definition and has a broad usage. There are many atheists that define atheism as I do and there are many that define it as you do. Some even define it as a belief that there is no god(though I find that unreasonable). Just like Catholics, Protestants, Pentacostal, Baptists, Methodists are all Christians, all the people who define themselves as above are also atheists cos they lack a belief that a god exists.

We're talking about kids here, like 5-6 years old that aren't old enough to make a decision about religion. Children who aren't old enough to fully understand or make a decision are not atheist because they never rejected the belief yet, if they do know a little I guess they would be closer to agnositicism rather than atheism.

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1. Why do people in the Old Testament live to be like 600 years old? What’s the deal, why did people live so much longer then? Is it just symbolic language?
Well, that’s a popular question. Basically, Biblical scholars disagree about Old Testament ages. Some say that it took several thousand years for the “full effect” of original sin to weigh in on our lifespan, essentially reducing it. Technology has done its best to lengthen it, again. Other theologians say that it was just a literary device used by the ancient Jewish writers to demonstrate prominence, dignity, importance or holiness. Still others claim it to be a translational problem or misgiving (but, that seems to be oversimplifying its importance).

To be honest, no one really knows, for sure. What we do know is that within Genesis and the rest of the Pentateuch, the authors were not as concerned about the scientific, orderly “data” and facts, but with the overall message. Put simply, they were more worried about the “why”, not the “how”.

I find it funny that atheists think christians/catholics take the bible 100% literally. It would have been like that years and years ago but not now, I've even heard a bishop at church say it's not supposed to be taken 100% literally.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

You wouldnt notice it if you read it a thousand times, you see what you want to see you hear what you want to hear! You're mind is not even remotely open to the possibility that you could be wrong. At least Sheik somewhere in his mind and heart knows there is this possibility, but you could see God with your own eyes and still reject it. So why discuss something when you are feeble minded and closed to all possibilities except your own?

I can't see him/her/it, why should i believe in it then? im reading bible and it's joke cause science already destroyed this fairytales and many others

---------- Post added 12.08.2012 at 19:22 ----------

We're talking about kids here, like 5-6 years old that aren't old enough to make a decision about religion. Children who aren't old enough to fully understand or make a decision are not atheist because they never rejected the belief yet, if they do know a little I guess they would be closer to agnositicism rather than atheism.

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I find it funny that atheists think christians/catholics take the bible 100% literally. It would have been like that years and years ago but not now, I've even heard a bishop at church say it's not supposed to be taken 100% literally.

So do you agree that god desroyed all humanity while the choosen one aka Noah was in the safe place aka ark ?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

I can't see him/her/it, why should i believe in it then? im reading bible and it's joke cause science already destroyed this fairytales and many others

I am done talking to you, youre a disrespectful low life who mocks what he doesnt understand, which is alot might I add, and thinks he has all the answers which clearly you have none.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

I am done talking to you, youre a disrespectful low life who mocks what he doesnt understand, which is alot might I add, and thinks he has all the answers which clearly you have none.

How could you call me disrespectful since you are the only one person who is insulting others in this thread ?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

How could you call me disrespectful since you are the only one person who is insulting others in this thread ?

I only insult you, because you mock peoples faith and laugh at their holy book, you act as though you are not goading me into my reactions, I wish I was a better Christian and I didn't get angered by children such as you but I do so I am refraining from discussion with you because you irritate and anger me

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

I only insult you, because you mock peoples faith and laugh at their holy book, you act as though you are not goading me into my reactions, I wish I was a better Christian and I didn't get angered by children such as you but I do so I am refraining from discussion with you because you irritate and anger me

I can laugh at anything that i want who the fuck are you to tell me when i can laugh and wheb i can't? Everyone knows that bible/quran are joke, but people are too scared to face the truth, they are scared to face the fact that there is no life after death

 

[AndreaCristiano]

I can laugh at anything that i want who the $#@! are you to tell me when i can laugh and wheb i can't? Everyone knows that bible/quran are joke, but people are too scared to face the truth, they are scared to face the fact that there is no life after death

This right here shows your arrogance and disrespect, you are now blocked have a nice life

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

This right here shows your arrogance and disrespect, you are now blocked have a nice life

White flag as usual

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus writes the following about this subject:

"Now when Noah had lived three hundred and fifty years after the Flood, and that all that time happily, he died, having lived the number of nine hundred and fifty years. But let no one, upon comparing the lives of the ancients with our lives, and with the few years which we now live, think that what we have said of them is false; or make the shortness of our lives at present an argument, that neither did they attain to so long a duration of life, for those ancients were beloved of God, and [lately] made by God himself; and because their food was then fitter for the prolongation of life, might well live so great a number of years: and besides, God afforded them a longer time of life on account of their virtue, and the good use they made of it in astronomical and geometrical discoveries, which would not have afforded the time of foretelling [the periods of the stars] unless they had lived six hundred years; for the great year is completed in that interval.

"Now I have for witnesses to what I have said, all those that have written Antiquities, both among the Greeks and barbarians; for even Manetho, who wrote the Egyptian History, and Berosus, who collected the Chaldean Monuments, and Mochus, and Hestieus, and, besides these, Hieronymus the Egyptian . . besides these, Ephorus and Nicolaus relate that the ancients lived a thousand years." (Antiquities of the Jews, Book 1, Chapter 3)

While I can't dismiss the words of a historian, I must say it stands as very weak evidence, especially considering that we're talking about a scientific claim here. I think we'll leave it at this.

You wouldnt notice it if you read it a thousand times, you see what you want to see you hear what you want to hear! You're mind is not even remotely open to the possibility that you could be wrong. At least Sheik somewhere in his mind and heart knows there is this possibility, but you could see God with your own eyes and still reject it. So why discuss something when you are feeble minded and closed to all possibilities except your own?

My mind, yes. Not my heart. My heart only pumps blood.

We're talking about kids here, like 5-6 years old that aren't old enough to make a decision about religion. Children who aren't old enough to fully understand or make a decision are not atheist because they never rejected the belief yet, if they do know a little I guess they would be closer to agnositicism rather than atheism.

The problem here is that you're strictly defining it as an active rejection of god. What I'm saying is that it's a passive absence of a positive belief in god. If his belief system lacks a belief that says "there is a god", then he's an atheist. I'm not gonna repeat this again.

And even if we don't agree with this, children CANNOT in any situation be agnostics. Because agnostics NEED to know the proposition before determining that the truth of the proposition cannot be known.

I find it funny that atheists think christians/catholics take the bible 100% literally. It would have been like that years and years ago but not now, I've even heard a bishop at church say it's not supposed to be taken 100% literally.

When you come to a point that the literal meaning of the word of god is not relevant anymore and you need to interpret the words for it to hold any relevance, it's when you're using a poor book as a guide to life.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

While I can't dismiss the words of a historian, I must say it stands as very weak evidence, especially considering that we're talking about a scientific claim here. I think we'll leave it at this.



My mind, yes. Not my heart. My heart only pumps blood.



The problem here is that you're strictly defining it as an active rejection of god. What I'm saying is that it's a passive absence of a positive belief in god. If his belief system lacks a belief that says "there is a god", then he's an atheist. I'm not gonna repeat this again.

And even if we don't agree with this, children CANNOT in any situation be agnostics. Because agnostics NEED to know the proposition before determining that the truth of the proposition cannot be known.



When you come to a point that the literal meaning of the word of god is not relevant anymore and you need to interpret the words for it to hold any relevance, it's when you're using a poor book as a guide to life.

laws on the books are for interpretation by courts yet that is acceptable but interpreting parts of scripture diminishes it to poor? not logical

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

laws on the books are for interpretation by courts yet that is acceptable but interpreting parts of scripture diminishes it to poor? not logical

That's because books of law don't claim to be divine or the word of god. As a product human mind, they are fallible and thus justify interpretation in complex situations. Scriptures claiming to be the word of god and a guide for life automatically require much greater scrutiny. Scrutiny which is sadly fails to live up to. More proof that it was man made and not inspired, authored or dictated by god himself.