Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (20 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dinsdale
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I feel it. Thought's aren't physical, love, hate, compasion is not too, you can't measure, weight or grab around them, this is what I humans spiritual side is. You might find out how they manifest in our physical world, but the feelings, thoughts itself won't ever be physical yet they will always be real to everyone.
But they still happen in the brain, right? Besides, if we do find out how they manifest in our physical world, THAT WILL MAKE IT PHYSICAL!!!
In the end, you are taking something which we don't fully understand(abstract human feelings) and using that to make an assertion of a spiritual world. As vague as the term 'spiritual' and 'spirituality' is, and how different people have different definitions of it, you are not making a strong case for the existence of a spiritual world.
In the end, you are taking something which we don't fully understand(abstract human feelings) and using that to make an assertion of a spiritual world. As vague as the term 'spiritual' and 'spirituality' is, and how different people have different definitions of it, you are not making a strong case for the existence of a spiritual world.
First of I'm not of the oppinion that spiritual is something magical. That ghosts are flying round or etc.
Feelings will never be physical, even if they found out what chemical reactions make certain feelings. That's just how they manifest in our physical reality, the feelings itself you feel won't become physical the moment that happens.
As for god? Well I think man created god, but as all things that are created becomes real so does god, but he is created not in a physical world, but in mind and heart, it's an idea, which you can't measure or grasp, but it is real notheless, specialy to those who believe in that idea.
Feelings will never be physical, even if they found out what chemical reactions make certain feelings. That's just how they manifest in our physical reality, the feelings itself you feel won't become physical the moment that happens.
As for god? Well I think man created god, but as all things that are created becomes real so does god, but he is created not in a physical world, but in mind and heart, it's an idea, which you can't measure or grasp, but it is real notheless, specialy to those who believe in that idea.
Neither am I.
Still, it doesn't validate the existence of a spiritual world.
"things that are created becomes real"? :wth:
Yes, the concept of a god is created in the human mind. It's just our imagination. It does not make it real. Our imagination comes up with great stories like Harry Potter, Finding Nemo, and the Da Vinci Code. But just because we can imagine it, doesn't make their existence real. Same goes for religious myths. Just because we imagined it and wrote about it, doesn't make it any real.
Still, it doesn't validate the existence of a spiritual world.
"things that are created becomes real"? :wth:
Yes, the concept of a god is created in the human mind. It's just our imagination. It does not make it real. Our imagination comes up with great stories like Harry Potter, Finding Nemo, and the Da Vinci Code. But just because we can imagine it, doesn't make their existence real. Same goes for religious myths. Just because we imagined it and wrote about it, doesn't make it any real.
To me it doesn't need to be validated, to me it exists ether i like it or not.
Well if someone believes in god and sees his deeds and actions everyday, to that person the presence of god is real, from his perspective that is. You choose to see the world in 1 and 0, and don't think anything is possible if it can't be explained by those numbers, well ok. But that doesn't make other people everyday life expiriences any less real if it can't be explained by your chosen system.
---------- Post added 30.03.2012 at 12:59 ----------
Retorts - thanks for the new word
"things that are created becomes real"? :wth:
Yes, the concept of a god is created in the human mind. It's just our imagination. It does not make it real. Our imagination comes up with great stories like Harry Potter, Finding Nemo, and the Da Vinci Code. But just because we can imagine it, doesn't make their existence real. Same goes for religious myths. Just because we imagined it and wrote about it, doesn't make it any real.
Yes, the concept of a god is created in the human mind. It's just our imagination. It does not make it real. Our imagination comes up with great stories like Harry Potter, Finding Nemo, and the Da Vinci Code. But just because we can imagine it, doesn't make their existence real. Same goes for religious myths. Just because we imagined it and wrote about it, doesn't make it any real.
---------- Post added 30.03.2012 at 12:59 ----------
Retorts - thanks for the new word
What can I do if I feel that way? After all feelings are irrational
Fair enough, though I don't agree.
I wouldn't get involved in these discussions anymore, just that it pisses me off how technocratic our civilization is becoming, and that technology is portrayed as the means and the end game(our civilizations aim). It's good and all, but the way it is showed now, as the only true way, the only criteria that can be on which judgement can be based on to understand the world around I don't agree at all. I think the is more to it, and I don't think one can find it with regular scientific methods.
Why I think that way? I think it's too limited system on which to understand the world we live in.
Fair enough, though I don't agree.
I wouldn't get involved in these discussions anymore, just that it pisses me off how technocratic our civilization is becoming, and that technology is portrayed as the means and the end game(our civilizations aim). It's good and all, but the way it is showed now, as the only true way, the only criteria that can be on which judgement can be based on to understand the world around I don't agree at all. I think the is more to it, and I don't think one can find it with regular scientific methods.
Why I think that way? I think it's too limited system on which to understand the world we live in.
I'm not questioning it's relyability or usefulness, but to rely on it as the only way of explaining things, to me that's too limiting.
What other system? I have no idea, I think humans can search in themselfs for answers and use them without needing to confirm them with scientific method. That's just my opinion, call it delusion if you want, but that's how I feel
What other system? I have no idea, I think humans can search in themselfs for answers and use them without needing to confirm them with scientific method. That's just my opinion, call it delusion if you want, but that's how I feel
What are the limits? Is empirical evidence the limit? Again, unless you have an alternative to explaining things and an explanation that actually has practical applications, then there is no point in making such an assertion.
Look, this whole "searching within for answers" is bollocks. It's just you and your thoughts. That's it. It's not a reflection of reality. You cannot answer the external by looking inwards. It doesn't make any sense.
Look, this whole "searching within for answers" is bollocks. It's just you and your thoughts. That's it. It's not a reflection of reality. You cannot answer the external by looking inwards. It doesn't make any sense.
Limits? Yes the limits are the physical world. Which can not be explained beyond using scientefic method, if there was something there you will not be able to know it using scientific method, thats the limit.
And searching withing, doesn't equal only your own thoughts, there are countles of books, people you can talk discuss and search for answers. It's not only you sitting in the corner and imagining stuff.
And searching withing, doesn't equal only your own thoughts, there are countles of books, people you can talk discuss and search for answers. It's not only you sitting in the corner and imagining stuff.
Look, I'm not saying there isn't any other world than the physical one. But the physical world is still the ONLY world we KNOW so far. We still don't know with certainty of an immaterial world, and don't know how such a world will affect our physical world. So there is no reason for believing in one. Unless we can study and demonstrate the effects and implications of such a world, there is no point in believing in one.
But how do you assess the validity of the answers you derive from books and people? How do you know if these answers are reliable and a fair reflection of reality? It all comes down to the scientific method.
But how do you assess the validity of the answers you derive from books and people? How do you know if these answers are reliable and a fair reflection of reality? It all comes down to the scientific method.
But that's it with scientific method we will never come to a conclusion about it, because we can't measure with physical methods something that is not physical. And there is a point in believing in it, if it makes you happier, helps you make sense of life, by all means do and believe. No point is trying to deny it with methods that can not by it's definition in what you believe while at the same time thinking it makes no difference if one believes or not.
There is no point in searching for god or whatever lies beyond our physical realm with physical measuring stick. You are doomed to failure.
Do you think the reality is objective? How do you define what is real? If it is in your mind is it real? A though is real or not?
There is no point in searching for god or whatever lies beyond our physical realm with physical measuring stick. You are doomed to failure.
Do you think the reality is objective? How do you define what is real? If it is in your mind is it real? A though is real or not?
did i miss something new?
"If it makes you happy"? That has to be the poorest, weakest reason to believe in something.
Yes, I think reality is objective.
Reality: Reality is the state of things as they actually exist, rather than as they may appear or might be imagined. -Wikipedia
Depends on what's in my mind. There is no rule that it is real.
A thought itself is real. But what the thought defines or implies may or may not be real.
Yes, I think reality is objective.
Reality: Reality is the state of things as they actually exist, rather than as they may appear or might be imagined. -Wikipedia
Depends on what's in my mind. There is no rule that it is real.
A thought itself is real. But what the thought defines or implies may or may not be real.
