Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (14 Viewers)

[AndreaCristiano]

Relax your batty, when I said 'round here' it was meant for people I know who actually live near me That's how we speak 'round here'.

Ahh ok lol no worries although to some on here my statement holds true

 

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[Sheik Yerbouti]

Your premise is correlating the actions of man in religion with God. What men do with their arrogance and power in the name of God isn't of God. People seem to forget about the fruit of labor.

But by being omnipotent and doing nothing to prevent those actions, he's automatically complicit in those acts too.

 

[Nzoric]

I believe all things are in divine providence good and bad. All there for our spiritual growth

A woman who together with her husband helped us when we were refugees. My parents and that couple grew really close friends, without them we would've had a much tougher time slipping into a new country, language and culture. Two days ago she dropped dead on her balcony. I'm sure she and her widowed husband grew spiritually from that.

Queue: god works in mysterious ways.

 

[Juve matador]

But by being omnipotent and doing nothing to prevent those actions, he's automatically complicit in those acts too.

Exactly!!

 

[AndreaCristiano]

But by being omnipotent and doing nothing to prevent those actions, he's automatically complicit in those acts too.

See from my different influences. I believe God has to allow things. You can't appreciate light without the dark nor will joy feel good without sorrow. Suffering is there so we can understand grace. These are necessary for our spiritual growth. I think peoples hang up is they expect all paradise all the time here on earth with God. They don't see the lessons learned or to be learned. There can be no LIGHT without the DARK no JOY without the PAIN

 

[Nzoric]

See from my different influences. I believe God has to allow things. You can't appreciate light without the dark nor will joy feel good without sorrow. Suffering is there so we can understand grace. These are necessary for our spiritual growth. I think peoples hang up is they expect all paradise all the time here on earth with God. They don't see the lessons learned or to be learned. There can be no LIGHT without the DARK no JOY without the PAIN

Your posting makes me gag.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Your posting makes me gag.

That's mature. sheik and I are having a serious conversation and you come with that

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

See from my different influences. I believe God has to allow things. You can't appreciate light without the dark nor will joy feel good without sorrow. Suffering is there so we can understand grace. These are necessary for our spiritual growth. I think peoples hang up is they expect all paradise all the time here on earth with God. They don't see the lessons learned or to be learned. There can be no LIGHT without the DARK no JOY without the PAIN

Maybe it's the other way around. Satan allows good so the bad feels even worse. Without light, there is no dark. Without joy, there is no pain.

 

[Alen]

If God exists, I bet he doesn't like AndreaCristiano. I feel it that he doesn't.

 

[Juve matador]

A woman who together with her husband helped us when we were refugees. My parents and that couple grew really close friends, without them we would've had a much tougher time slipping into a new country, language and culture. Two days ago she dropped dead on her balcony. I'm sure she and her widowed husband grew spiritually from that.

Queue: god works in mysterious ways.

Exactly mate.

I know of religious people who find the most miniscule postive, and thank god for it.

I knew a lady, her son was murdered, went missing for months before being found, she said 'god was preparing me'... she thought god, made him go missing before being found, so that it would ... be less of a shock, I guess...

If he went out of his way to make him go missing, perhaps he could have went that bit further and ... ya know... prevented his death.

All of this was just her opinion ofcourse, not all religious people are like this.


I felt sorry for her, if events like that don't change your belief then nothing will.




As I said earlier, some people will survive tsunamis and thank god for it, even if they're own children or their partner died in the tsunami...

Their psyche confuses me in that respect, do they really believe god saved them, and fucked their relatives over ?

And if so, then why do they thank him..

 

[Nzoric]

That's mature. sheik and I are having a serious conversation and you come with that

I'm just contributing to the serious conversation.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Maybe it's the other way around. Satan allows good so the bad feels even worse. Without light, there is no dark. Without joy, there is no pain.

Well another misconception is that Satan is not part of Gods plan. Do you know Satans real name in scripture ? It was the adversary that's what Satan really means. Look at the story of Job. Satan goes to God and basically asks if he can mess with Job to show him that he doesn't truly believe and God allows it.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Well another misconception is that Satan is not part of Gods plan. Do you know Satans real name in scripture ? It was the adversary that's what Satan really means. Look at the story of Job. Satan goes to God and basically asks if he can mess with Job to show him that he doesn't truly believe and God allows it.

Hmmm, interesting. I don't think it addresses my point, though. Why is it that there's bad so we an appreciate the good, instead of good so that knowing it, makes the suffering all the worse?

 

[Nzoric]

You gotta be shitting me

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

See from my different influences. I believe God has to allow things. You can't appreciate light without the dark nor will joy feel good without sorrow. Suffering is there so we can understand grace. These are necessary for our spiritual growth. I think peoples hang up is they expect all paradise all the time here on earth with God. They don't see the lessons learned or to be learned. There can be no LIGHT without the DARK no JOY without the PAIN

Your description stems from your bias that everything that god does or allows to happen is eventually good, whether it may seem like it or not. You perhaps rationalize it as the "LIGHT without the DARK no JOY without the PAIN" and as spiritual growth. To be fair on your critique, you should either attribute all acts, both good and bad, as the work of god; or attribute all acts, both good and bad, as works of humans. And then you should judge these acts with absolute fairness. You cannot choose to attribute the good acts to god, and the bad acts to humans.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Hmmm, interesting. I don't think it addresses my point, though. Why is it that there's bad so we an appreciate the good, instead of good so we suffer even more from the bad?

well just look at human nature inherently we are good but the bad which we allow in changes us. Some for the better se for the worse. Its how one grows or doesn't from that bad that allows greater light into the soul or leas

 

[Nzoric]

Btw, I love how AC skipped my concrete example. You're all theory, generalizing but when you're faced with a concrete example of a truly good person dying for no apparent reason, you skip it.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

well just look at human nature inherently we are good but the bad which we allow in changes us. Some for the better se for the worse. Its how one grows or doesn't from that bad that allows greater light into the soul or leas

You know what a psycho is? A person with literally no "conscience". They aren't inherently good.

What that has do with anything, I don't know. But just thought it'd be interesting to hear a religious perspective on it. Why don't these people have consciences?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Btw, I love how AC skipped my concrete example. You're all theory, generalizing but when you're faced with a concrete example of a truly good person dying for no apparent reason, you skip it.

I didn't even see that let me look back

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Btw, I love how AC skipped my concrete example. You're all theory, generalizing but when you're faced with a concrete example of a truly good person dying for no apparent reason, you skip it.

In the end, it all comes down to evidence.