what did i do this time 
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Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dinsdale
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Nothing you were giving some good stuff so I didn't feel the need to add
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Well atheists always point to one or two "facts " and then ignore questions posed by believers or act like the questions are irrelevant. For instance atheists here were stating how its ok for a theist to believe God came from nothing but not ok to believe the universe sprang from nothing. well scientific theory doesn't allow for something from nothing. In the realm of the natural that is against all natural laws. God on the other hand lives outside the laws of nature so it doesn't apply
The thing is, saying that it came out of nothing doesn't help as we just don't know what it was. A good analogy would be that before the big bang, the universe was compressed in a suitcase. The thing is, what was outside of the suitcase?
We just don't know what happened. If I can sum up the theistic position:
-The Big Bang happened out of nothing.
-Something can't come out of nothing.
-Therefore, God caused the Big Bang.
We don't know if it was nothing, scientists like Hawking and Krauss have recently argued that the laws of physics and quantum mechanics could explain the Big Bang. It's only a theory and they don't know yet but I find that approach much more rational then creating a false dilemma and using an argument from ignorance. Was the big bang a singularity? Sure. Nevertheless, we don't know how it happened.
Furthermore, using that theistic approach serves nothing as you would have then to explain how God came into existence and as I said, special pleading doesn't work.
We just don't know what happened. If I can sum up the theistic position:
-The Big Bang happened out of nothing.
-Something can't come out of nothing.
-Therefore, God caused the Big Bang.
We don't know if it was nothing, scientists like Hawking and Krauss have recently argued that the laws of physics and quantum mechanics could explain the Big Bang. It's only a theory and they don't know yet but I find that approach much more rational then creating a false dilemma and using an argument from ignorance. Was the big bang a singularity? Sure. Nevertheless, we don't know how it happened.
Furthermore, using that theistic approach serves nothing as you would have then to explain how God came into existence and as I said, special pleading doesn't work.
Your argument is all in supposition that man's limited knowledge is the be all and end all. Also the supposition that because we dot know or understand it in our realm of reality/ understanding then it can not be. We look to men and their theories and laud them as the pinnacle of thought and understanding yet in reality we know minuscule amounts and most is just theory and not truth
We don't know yet how it happened, like Darwin's theory of evolution had massive holes at its beginning, which were well filed after more than a century of archaeological and biological research.
We may well be able to understand the Big Bang theory better in a few decades and the increasing understanding of quantum mechanics might well help a lot to come to that point where we know how it happened.
I'd rather accept that than use the fallacious Kalam cosmological argument that utilizes special pleading to justify the existence of a god that is unsupported by evidence.
We may well be able to understand the Big Bang theory better in a few decades and the increasing understanding of quantum mechanics might well help a lot to come to that point where we know how it happened.
I'd rather accept that than use the fallacious Kalam cosmological argument that utilizes special pleading to justify the existence of a god that is unsupported by evidence.
I am glad to not share your point of view as I think that basing one's belief on evidence and logical arguments is more rational than basing it on faith and logical fallacies.
I didn't imply that billions are ignorant, as a matter of fact, millions of theists are probably more knowledgeable than I am. I don't think that belief in theism is stupid or ignorant, I just find it irrational, which is different.
I didn't imply that billions are ignorant, as a matter of fact, millions of theists are probably more knowledgeable than I am. I don't think that belief in theism is stupid or ignorant, I just find it irrational, which is different.
Why do you find it irrational? that implys that all believers are irrational. what is so irrational about believing in something greater than one self ? Believing that man doesn't have the market cornered on knowledge and understanding. 50 years ago people would say this cellphone m typing this on was fiction and irrational but now its reality. just because at this time you do not see it doesn't mean its not true or possible