Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (15 Viewers)

[rounder]

Atheists or thesists that had their beliefs, or in an atheists case, non beliefs, forced upon them can fairly be called sheep. However, you can not just apply this to Theists.

Many Atheist parents force their children to disbelieve in god. How is this different from Theist parents? Both are forcing their children to accept to their own personal beliefs.

 

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[Lawnchair Bes]

you did not answer my question. it's funny how when you wanna say something good about theists you point to yourself, but when it's something bad about atheists it is spread across the board.

my brother and his friend (age 10) both found it "interesting" that i was not a "muslim" like my parents, i don't know where he got that idea, because they aren't. i told him everyone can choose to be what they want.

 

[rounder]

you did not answer my question. it's funny how when you wanna say something good about theists you point to yourself, but when it's something bad about atheists it is spread across the board.

Oh no, don't get me wrong. I am a vicious critic of most christians in the world today. In fact, I respect an objective atheist a lot more than a sheep-like christian. There are quite a few Christian morons out there who don't know the first thing about Christianity. They simply parrot the words they hear from their local priest, parents.. etc.. I despise these people a lot more than you do, believe me.

 

[Martin]

JuveRev, why don't I amuse myself (possibly) and pull you up on a question you have failed to answer that aca has put to you.

If you say that a god fearing person would not steal because he fears god's consequences, does this mean no god fearing man has ever stolen?

 

[rounder]

JuveRev, why don't I amuse myself (possibly) and pull you up on a question you have failed to answer that aca has put to you.

If you say that a god fearing person would not steal because he fears god's consequences, does this mean no god fearing man has ever stolen?

It would be inaccurate to say that. Some people fear god at different extents, their level of faith may varry. Although I can assure you that someone who truly fears god and believe in him with all his heart, mind you I am talking about a ridiculously small part of the population here, will not steal.

I said it's inaccurate because it also depends on a person's personality. If this man was a massive hypocrite, he can believe in god and still steal, there is no problem there. It does only apply to the purest of hearts like I mentioned above, they come few in this world.

 

[Martin]

It would be inaccurate to say that. Some people fear god at different extents, their level of faith may varry. Although I can assure you that someone who truly fears god and believe in him with all his heart, mind you I am talking about a ridiculously small part of the population here, will not steal.

I said it's inaccurate because it also depends on a person's personality. If this man was a amssive hypocrite, he can believe in god and still steal, there is no problem there. It does only apply to the purest of hearts like I mentioned above, they come few in this world.

So in consequence, since there is "a ridiculously small part of the population" who both fear god and fear him "fully", who will not act immorally because of this, would you not say that in general, as far as most people are concerned, god does nothing to uphold morality?

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

So in consequence, since there is "a ridiculously small part of the population" who both fear god and fear him "fully", who will not act immorally because of this, would you not say that in general, as far as most people are concerned, god does nothing to uphold morality?

of course he wouldn't, even though he practically did.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

The following quotation from the Nobel prize winning physicist Steven Weinberg ... : “With or without [religion] you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion.”

 

[Turdhead]

Does God exist?

ask Seven, he knows everything !!

Classic.

 

[rounder]

So in consequence, since there is "a ridiculously small part of the population" who both fear god and fear him "fully", who will not act immorally because of this, would you not say that in general, as far as most people are concerned, god does nothing to uphold morality?

You have taken the theory of morality to the very extreme. You are missing the basic point. God does not force morality upon all people completely or absolutely. Some people do immoral things despite being theists. However, god massively decreases immoral acts in humanity. Humans may not completely refrain from stealing for example, however, they will largely lower their immoral acts because of god.

We have to be realistic. We are humans and are far from flawless. We will always in one manner or another maintain immorality because of our nature, what god does is make us more moral people, although not completely moral.

Why is this amusing to you if you don't mind my asking?

 

[rounder]

The following quotation from the Nobel prize winning physicist Steven Weinberg ... : “With or without [religion] you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion.”

Like?

 

[Martin]

You have taken the theory of morality to the very extreme. You are missing the basic point. God does not force morality upon all people completely or absolutely. Some people do immoral things despite being theists. However, god massively decreases immoral acts in humanity. Humans may not completely refrain from stealing for example, however, they will largely lower their immoral acts because of god.

We have to be realistic. We are humans and are far from flawless. We will always in one manner or another maintain immorality because of our nature, what god does is make us more moral people, although not completely moral.

So if people generally are immoral, how do you conclude that they are more moral than they would be without god? How do you measure this?

Why is this amusing to you if you don't mind my asking?

I'm amused by a lot of things.

 

[rounder]

So if people generally are immoral, how do you conclude that they are more moral than they would be without god? How do you measure this?



I'm amused by a lot of things.

Simply take a look at third world countries. Countries where education and moral teachings are unheard of. I have seen documentaries about what some tribes do in Africa that really disgusted me. It was hard to believe that these were actually humans. They were never taught what morals are so how can they act morally?

When we act naturally and instinctively; we act immorally. In the parts of the world where teachings of god and morallity are available, we somehow witness a much more moral community. Why don't the African tribes and these people share the same level of morallity? They are both humans right? It's because the former are uneducated on moral values while the latter is.

 

[Ahmed]

The following quotation from the Nobel prize winning physicist Steven Weinberg ... : “With or without [religion] you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion.”

very nicely put

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Did Gos make man or Man make god?

That's the better question...

 

[Alen]

Did Gos make man or Man make god?

That's the better question...

That's the first question asked in the Craig-Atkins debate.
You didn't bother to watch the video from the first post of this topic, did you ?

 

[rounder]

Did Gos make man or Man make god?

That's the better question...

Gos made man.


God is not something invented by humans randomly out of fear and feelings of insignificance, even if god was, where does this feeling come from?

 

[Martin]

Gos made man.


God is not something invented by humans randomly out of fear and feelings of insignificance.

How do you know that?

 

[rounder]

How do you know that?

I don't, in fact, I don't know anything. Read my sig.

Let's say it's true that humans invented god out of insecurity from their part. Why this need for significance? Why this need for reason? If we are just purely and simply evolved animals, then why do we have these specific needs. Why don't we just live, eat, sleep, without demanding significance?

My question is, where does this need for significance come from? Animals don't have needs for significance, they just live, reproduce and die. Why are we different?

 

[Martin]

My question is, where does this need for significance come from? Animals don't have needs for significance, they just live, reproduce and die. Why are we different?

Are you really asking if there is a difference between animals and humans? There is. We are more evolved, we have a reasoning ability, a pretty good memory. We have the ability to think, hence we can ask ourselves questions like "What is the meaning of our lives". Animals cannot, they do not think.