Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (4 Viewers)

Well, did...

  • Man make God?

  • God make Man?


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Völler

Always spot on
May 6, 2012
23,091
The big question is not whether or not god exists. It's why a well-educated person like ILiveForJuve feels the need to convert his religious friends to atheism. Is it because he thinks it will make their lives better? Is it because he thinks it will make the world better? Of course not. He just wants to win an argument so he can think to himself that he's "right". This is the kind of thinking that makes me sick. ILiveForJuve is a disgusting human being and makes me want to join a religion.
 

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Enron

Tickle Me
Moderator
Oct 11, 2005
75,252
Because there are records dating back confirming the scripture. The fact that it's lasted for thousands of years also indicates the believability of it over that scam.
De que?

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Why is Scientology a proved scam but Christianity (or Islam) isn't?
It was written by a famous Science Fiction writer. It's like the biggest troll ever, next to Mormonism.

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I don't really believe in a god exactly, however I'm not ruling out that there is a higher power. I just know for this period in my life, I have no reason to believe that there is a god. When I was younger I was brought up as a Christian, had my holy communion, but never got confirmed.

While I do not go to mass (apart from weddings and funerals) I still live a good life. I'm always helping people out and always try to help those less fortunate. I don't do so cause i'm a 'good christian'...I do so cause I'm not a dick and was brought up well by my parents.

So I guess not believing in anything but not ruling out any possibilities makes me agnostic right?
Yeah, pretty much.
 

ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
46,011
It can be. From the point of view of religion, if you follow God's will (such as 10 commandments) leaves you a pretty solid moral compass for yourself often directed positively at others when you try to apply it. That would also make you appear well-rounded to those around you so it isn't necessarily a bad thing. To me, it makes more sense to believe in something greater than any of us that might offer eternity in a better place rather than living life believing nothing happens afterwards. You can't use the "prepare to be disappointed" argument for that either because if God isn't true then you won't be around to know you made a mistake. But if he is real, and you meet him, then hopefully you lived a life good enough for His eyes to welcome you.
That's not God's commandments, that's just morals.
 

IliveForJuve

Burn this club
Jan 17, 2011
18,410
If a supposed omni-benevolent being doesn't act very benevolently, then you really have to question that beings' existence.



No it doesn't. The longevity of the flat earth theory counted for shit when we had photographic evidence that the earth was round. So even the oldest religions can be wrong.
When you look at the history of what we know about the world, you see a noticeable pattern. Natural explanations of things have been replacing supernatural explanations of them. Why the Sun rises and sets. Where thunder and lightning come from. Why people get sick. Why people look like their parents. How the complexity of life came into being. And a hundred other exameples...

All these things were once explained by religion. But as we understood the world better and learned to observe it more carefully, the explanations based on religion were replaced by ones based on physical cause and effect. Consistently. Thoroughly. Like a steamroller. The number of times that a supernatural explanation of a phenomenon has been replaced by a natural explanation? Thousands upon thousands upon thousands.

Now, the number of times that a natural explanation of a phenomenon has been replaced by a supernatural one? The number of times humankind has said, "We used to think (X) was caused by physical cause and effect, but now we understand that it's caused by God, or spirits, or demons, or the soul"?

Exactly zero.

Sure, people come up with new supernatural "explanations" for stuff all the time. But explanations with evidence? Replicable evidence? Carefully gathered, patiently tested, rigorously reviewed evidence? Internally consistent evidence? Large amounts of it, from many different sources? Again -- yep, exactly zero.

Given that this is true, what are the chances that any given phenomenon for which we currently don't have a thorough explanation - human consciousness, for instance, or the origin of the Universe will be best explained by the supernatural?

Given this pattern, it's clear that the chances of this are essentially zero. So close to zero that they might as well be zero. And the hypothesis of the supernatural is therefore a hypothesis we can discard. It is a hypothesis we came up with when we didn't understand the world as well as we do now... but that, on more careful examination, has never once been shown to be correct.

If I see any solid evidence to support God, or any supernatural explanation of any phenomenon, I'll reconsider my disbelief. Until then, I'll assume that the mind-bogglingly consistent pattern of natural explanations replacing supernatural ones is almost certain to continue.

Greta Christina.
 

Völler

Always spot on
May 6, 2012
23,091
When you look at the history of what we know about the world, you see a noticeable pattern. Natural explanations of things have been replacing supernatural explanations of them. Why the Sun rises and sets. Where thunder and lightning come from. Why people get sick. Why people look like their parents. How the complexity of life came into being. And a hundred other exameples...

All these things were once explained by religion. But as we understood the world better and learned to observe it more carefully, the explanations based on religion were replaced by ones based on physical cause and effect. Consistently. Thoroughly. Like a steamroller. The number of times that a supernatural explanation of a phenomenon has been replaced by a natural explanation? Thousands upon thousands upon thousands.

Now, the number of times that a natural explanation of a phenomenon has been replaced by a supernatural one? The number of times humankind has said, "We used to think (X) was caused by physical cause and effect, but now we understand that it's caused by God, or spirits, or demons, or the soul"?

Exactly zero.

Sure, people come up with new supernatural "explanations" for stuff all the time. But explanations with evidence? Replicable evidence? Carefully gathered, patiently tested, rigorously reviewed evidence? Internally consistent evidence? Large amounts of it, from many different sources? Again -- yep, exactly zero.

Given that this is true, what are the chances that any given phenomenon for which we currently don't have a thorough explanation - human consciousness, for instance, or the origin of the Universe will be best explained by the supernatural?

Given this pattern, it's clear that the chances of this are essentially zero. So close to zero that they might as well be zero. And the hypothesis of the supernatural is therefore a hypothesis we can discard. It is a hypothesis we came up with when we didn't understand the world as well as we do now... but that, on more careful examination, has never once been shown to be correct.

If I see any solid evidence to support God, or any supernatural explanation of any phenomenon, I'll reconsider my disbelief. Until then, I'll assume that the mind-bogglingly consistent pattern of natural explanations replacing supernatural ones is almost certain to continue.
Remember to quote your sources.
 

IliveForJuve

Burn this club
Jan 17, 2011
18,410
Because there are records dating back confirming the scripture. The fact that it's lasted for thousands of years also indicates the believability of it over that scam.

De que?

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It was written by a famous Science Fiction writer. It's like the biggest troll ever, next to Mormonism.

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Yeah, pretty much.
The Bible is a fun book full of fantasy. I don't see much of a difference.

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Remember to quote your sources.
Written by Sheik.
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,356
You don't think they are? If it weren't for God, would you be killing people and being a dick to your parents?
I don't know. The idea of hell and eternity is enough for me to try and be a better person and in doing so, the 10 commandments is where I start.
 

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