Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (17 Viewers)

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I think the more important question is that almost every religion describes a judgment system and an afterlife and varied rules based on which out destination is determined. So once we die, which rule comes into effect? Does a Hindu go to Hindu heaven as well as to the Islamic hell because he did not believe in Allah? Or does he reincarnate as another human being and avoid the heavens/hells of all other religions?

Which one?

 

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[Djabrail]

Only an all-loving god will impose infinite torture for a finite crime.

Yes, but He also can give you infinite reward for a finite good deed.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Yes, but He also can give you infinite reward for a finite good deed.

Fair enough. Now try to answer my question above.

 

[Djabrail]

Fair enough. Now try to answer my question above.

Everyone has ONE God. you, me or some Hindu.

 

[king Ale]

So our punishment needs to be something we can comprehend.

The existence of an all power being is already something human cannot comprehend. Human cannot comprehend eternity and an afterlife either. If there's a god as well as an eternal life after we die, the reward/punishment we've been told about can't be comprehensible either.

However, if I were a god and I'd be to intimidate/promise people, I'd be definitely talking about something closest to what they could imagine; promising them the ultimate happiness and intimidating them with talks of the ultimate torture within the boundaries of what they find joyous/disturbing.

---------- Post added 23.07.2012 at 23:00 ----------

How is that fair? Why can't animals go to hell? If a lion eats a man, it won't go to hell? Why, because it doesn't know any better?

I think the more important question is that almost every religion describes a judgment system and an afterlife and varied rules based on which out destination is determined. So once we die, which rule comes into effect? Does a Hindu go to Hindu heaven as well as to the Islamic hell because he did not believe in Allah? Or does he reincarnate as another human being and avoid the heavens/hells of all other religions?

Which one?

Man, it's like the questions 7 yo children ask their parents

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Everyone has ONE God. you, me or some Hindu.

So is it Allah, Yahweh or Brahman?

And if there is only one god, why are there multiple descriptions of the afterlife, and multiple rules based on which our fate is determined?

Man, it's like the questions 7 yo children ask their parents

Yet there is no answer to it.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Dog heaven

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Dog heaven

And we'll play "go fetch" with our lord thy god for all eternity. It all makes sense now!

 

[JCK]

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Woof woof!

 

[ALC]

Woof woof!

 

[king Ale]

Yet there is no answer to it.

There's one answer for your question, which is very easy to grab for which you don't need to be religious or even believe in god, unless you enjoy acting like a confused person who seeks answers to the simplest events around.

Basics are the same in all religions, which are supposed to be showing people the ways of humanity, reminding them of what the human nature values. Religions could be manmade and it still doesn't change the fact that they all spread this way of thinking that every good deed is to be rewarded and every bad deed is to be punished which is a definite answer to your question about different judgment systems. You could find your way without the need to be intimidated by something you cannot understand, so go your way. Religions are essentially to push people towards what human naturally does value, no matter if they are from a god or are invented by human.

 

[ALC]

I just think all living things either go to heaven/hell or not. And why would animals get a pass from hell? If you say it's because they don't know any better I could make the same argument for fucked up psycho killers and assholes that were raised to be assholes and crackheads, etc.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Oh Hoori! I don't need to "act" confused. All the religions in the world have given me a genuine reason to be confused.

And I don't fully agree with your point. For example, the Qur'an(IIRC) states that anyone who believes there's is only one god, believes in the last day, and leads a life of righteousness will go to heaven. At the same time, it says that the unbeliever will suffer in the fire.

Now the Hindu texts say that when we die, our good and bad deeds are measured. If our good deeds outweigh the bad, we go to heaven. Our else, it's hell.

Now for anyone like me, who doesn't believe in ONE god, in the last day, doesn't believe in Allah BUT has lead a righteous life, where do they go?

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

There's one answer for your question, which is very easy to grab for which you don't need to be religious or even believe in god, unless you enjoy acting like a confused person who seeks answers to the simplest events around.

Basics are the same in all religions, which are supposed to be showing people the ways of humanity, reminding them of what the human nature values. Religions could be manmade and it still doesn't change the fact that they all spread this way of thinking that every good deed is to be rewarded and every bad deed is to be punished which is a definite answer to your question about different judgment systems. You could find your way without the need to be intimidated by something you cannot understand, so go your way. Religions are essentially to push people towards what human naturally does value, no matter if they are from a god or are invented by human.

In b4 AC says, "Totally agree" without even reading the post.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

In b4 AC says, "Totally agree" without even reading the post.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

After an eternity, the pain wears off. In an instant, sure. But after years and years I'm sure you can't feel it anymore.

Wouldn't eternal "burning in hell" (snigger) also lead to dying again & again? Surely, if fire in the afterlife has the same effect as in the real world (lotsa pain etc), there's only one possible outcome in the end?
Unless, of course, the burning is being carried out in intervals. Always giving the victim enough time to recover first.

I'm confused.

However, if I were a god

Wait, wait, wait. Are you now saying you're not a god? Now I'm even more confused.

 

[JuveJay]

I just think all living things either go to heaven/hell or not. And why would animals get a pass from hell? If you say it's because they don't know any better I could make the same argument for fucked up psycho killers and assholes that were raised to be assholes and crackheads, etc.

I'm sure religious people who are very fond of their pets believe they are going to heaven with them.

---------- Post added 24.07.2012 at 10:00 ----------

And, no, its not about burning your finger, just an example, you just cant get used to pain.

 

[Fred]

Wouldn't eternal "burning in hell" (snigger) also lead to dying again & again? Surely, if fire in the afterlife has the same effect as in the real world (lotsa pain etc), there's only one possible outcome in the end?
Unless, of course, the burning is being carried out in intervals. Always giving the victim enough time to recover first.

I'm confused.




Wait, wait, wait. Are you now saying you're not a god? Now I'm even more confused.

There is no living and dying in hell.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

There is no living and dying in hell.

There is no hell also.