Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (27 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dinsdale
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There are cases in the Bible that say that God used floods, fires etc. to punish people, but it doesn't suggest that all natural disasters exist to punish people.
Quite a straw man argument you've established there. Despite your first point being incorrect, the belief in a being who is in control of the universe and belief that earthquakes are caused by tectonic plates are not mutually exculsive.
I'm not going to get involved in the evolution debate, but what I find most interesting that sets humans apart from other animals is the desire to understand and study things purely for the sake of understanding them. That, to me, suggests that we exist to seek an understanding of things beyond ourselves.
No, that's not me saying that intellect and curiosity are proof of God's existence, but it does make me wonder.
I haven't the time nor willpower to read through this whole thread, but believing in the Adam and Eve creation story doesn't necessitate the belief that men have one less rib than women. Only someone who believe that cutting off your legs means your children will have no legs would believe that...
That's not really a valid point Burke. The Bible (or the Biblical canon) as we know it today is the amalgamation of countless eyewitness accounts and reproductions from the time of Jesus. You can't really say that it's invalid because one guy sat down and wrote down what he claimed was the truth.
The accounts of Jesus' life (specifically, the gospels) were written less than 30 years after his death. Given the mediums of communication and the reproduction of historical documentation at that time, surely one must think that if people were spreading heinous lies about a man performing miracles, they wouldn't have made it through history thousands of years later.
The first account of the life of Alexander the Great was written hundreds of years after his death, but for some reason everything that has been written about him since is accepted as fact. Much like Jesus, very few people doubt that such a man existed, but there are varying degrees of belief regarding his feats and deeds.
Quite a straw man argument you've established there. Despite your first point being incorrect, the belief in a being who is in control of the universe and belief that earthquakes are caused by tectonic plates are not mutually exculsive.
7) i simply dont know what to say on your last point, except that you are proving my point 
. Morals evolved as the society evolved. I am an animal. I have survival instinct and hardwired desire to spread my genes. IF i was only that, i would live in the wild like any other animal and do just that. I am human, and in certain way i am more than this. It does not make us special, just different kind of animal. We learned how to co-operate for our own benefit and with the society becoming more complex, rules become more complex
. Morals evolved as the society evolved. I am an animal. I have survival instinct and hardwired desire to spread my genes. IF i was only that, i would live in the wild like any other animal and do just that. I am human, and in certain way i am more than this. It does not make us special, just different kind of animal. We learned how to co-operate for our own benefit and with the society becoming more complex, rules become more complex
No, that's not me saying that intellect and curiosity are proof of God's existence, but it does make me wonder.
Bürkε;1773472 said:
The best thing is that if it is all fact, THIS MOTHER FUCKER thinks men have one less rib than women!
That's not really a valid point Burke. The Bible (or the Biblical canon) as we know it today is the amalgamation of countless eyewitness accounts and reproductions from the time of Jesus. You can't really say that it's invalid because one guy sat down and wrote down what he claimed was the truth.
The accounts of Jesus' life (specifically, the gospels) were written less than 30 years after his death. Given the mediums of communication and the reproduction of historical documentation at that time, surely one must think that if people were spreading heinous lies about a man performing miracles, they wouldn't have made it through history thousands of years later.
The first account of the life of Alexander the Great was written hundreds of years after his death, but for some reason everything that has been written about him since is accepted as fact. Much like Jesus, very few people doubt that such a man existed, but there are varying degrees of belief regarding his feats and deeds.
Damn, gray, i really wanted to go to bed
Long time no see
Glad to "meet" you again
True. It is also true that people in this thread claimed that the earth is "intelligently designed".
IF god takes credit for all the beauty in the world, why doesn't he/she take credit for all that is wrong in the world?
NOMA principle. refer to what i posted above. IF god controls the universe, he is controling the movement of the tectonic plates. IF he is not controlling the movement of tectonic plates, he is not controlling the universe.
Belief that two are not mutually exclusive between believers is correct. There are many believers that will not agree with me saying that god has that kind of power. Problem is that their opinion comes from a very liberal interpretation of their favorite book of truth. My question is simple. What is the criteria you apply when deciding which parts of the bible/koran are fact and which needs to be interpreted?
wrong. We do not try to understand things beyond ourselves. We are trying to understand things around us.
POE's law. It is hard to distinguish what is serious and what is a joke when talking about religion. Check out fstdt.com (http://fstdt.com/fundies/top100.aspx?archive=1) to check out the statements made by various believers from around the world. It is hard to believe what some people are ready to believe
...and work of thousand upon thousand persons that copied and adjusted the gospels to suit the needs and beliefs of their time. I could blaber about it for yonks, Misquoting jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misquoting_Jesus) follows the changes that took place in the bible throughout history, very often changing the basic meaning of the text.
Accounts of jesus's life were written anything from 30 to 60 years after his death. There were no eyewitnesses that wrote anything about him or his life. It was a story, told and re-told.
It made it through 2000 years of history because christians were the one to gain the control of "beliefs" of the roman empire. If it was any other sect, it would have been the beliefs of that sect that would be dominant today.
I'll check it out how long it took after Alexander's death to have his name mentioned. I'll bet that his life story as we know it today, came from the writings of historians of his time from various sources, friends and enemies. Same can not be said for jesus. Most of what we know about jesuse's life comes from writings of christians and throughout history those writings have been adjusted & edited. First non-christian mention of jesus is by Tacitus in the year of 116 and/or Pliny the Younger (112), and thats only mentioning his name, nothing about his works or philosophy.
ok, now i really need to go to sleep
night
Long time no see
Glad to "meet" you again
True. It is also true that people in this thread claimed that the earth is "intelligently designed".
IF god takes credit for all the beauty in the world, why doesn't he/she take credit for all that is wrong in the world?
NOMA principle. refer to what i posted above. IF god controls the universe, he is controling the movement of the tectonic plates. IF he is not controlling the movement of tectonic plates, he is not controlling the universe.
Belief that two are not mutually exclusive between believers is correct. There are many believers that will not agree with me saying that god has that kind of power. Problem is that their opinion comes from a very liberal interpretation of their favorite book of truth. My question is simple. What is the criteria you apply when deciding which parts of the bible/koran are fact and which needs to be interpreted?
wrong. We do not try to understand things beyond ourselves. We are trying to understand things around us.
POE's law. It is hard to distinguish what is serious and what is a joke when talking about religion. Check out fstdt.com (http://fstdt.com/fundies/top100.aspx?archive=1) to check out the statements made by various believers from around the world. It is hard to believe what some people are ready to believe
...and work of thousand upon thousand persons that copied and adjusted the gospels to suit the needs and beliefs of their time. I could blaber about it for yonks, Misquoting jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misquoting_Jesus) follows the changes that took place in the bible throughout history, very often changing the basic meaning of the text.
Accounts of jesus's life were written anything from 30 to 60 years after his death. There were no eyewitnesses that wrote anything about him or his life. It was a story, told and re-told.
It made it through 2000 years of history because christians were the one to gain the control of "beliefs" of the roman empire. If it was any other sect, it would have been the beliefs of that sect that would be dominant today.
I'll check it out how long it took after Alexander's death to have his name mentioned. I'll bet that his life story as we know it today, came from the writings of historians of his time from various sources, friends and enemies. Same can not be said for jesus. Most of what we know about jesuse's life comes from writings of christians and throughout history those writings have been adjusted & edited. First non-christian mention of jesus is by Tacitus in the year of 116 and/or Pliny the Younger (112), and thats only mentioning his name, nothing about his works or philosophy.
ok, now i really need to go to sleep
night
Congratulations, you're all (with the exception of a few) a bunch of morons who love picking on people at who they can take cheap shots.
So you're admitting you're excluding the existence of god because of emotional motives?
You are really testing my nerves. As I mentioned 45 times before, we're talking about a metaphysical definition of god, thus a timeless and spaceless personal entity which caused the existence of the universe. And for the 6th time, this has NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION. If you still don't get it, please do bother to watch the video I posted, instead of asking me same question time after time.
I understand you specially started posting on Juventuz again because of this thread, a philosophical thread about the existence of god. But you don't even know how to define god, which is basic knowledge if you want to discuss the existence/ non-existence of god. So what motivated you? You like to rip on people who bring up religion? Does that make you feel smart??
Only 2 people who get it?? Whatever...
So you're admitting you're excluding the existence of god because of emotional motives?
You are really testing my nerves. As I mentioned 45 times before, we're talking about a metaphysical definition of god, thus a timeless and spaceless personal entity which caused the existence of the universe. And for the 6th time, this has NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION. If you still don't get it, please do bother to watch the video I posted, instead of asking me same question time after time.
I understand you specially started posting on Juventuz again because of this thread, a philosophical thread about the existence of god. But you don't even know how to define god, which is basic knowledge if you want to discuss the existence/ non-existence of god. So what motivated you? You like to rip on people who bring up religion? Does that make you feel smart??
Only 2 people who get it?? Whatever...
You're mixing things up here. You asked if I'm "allowing for the existence of god" in the case that science does not explain everything. I said my reason for rejecting the idea of god is because I don't need to have a god in my life, regardless of science's ability to explain the world to me. How that is an "emotional" reason I don't know. If you ask someone if they want a drink and they say no thanks are they being "emotional" about it?
Is the existence of god plausible? No, I don't think it is. Why not? Go back to what aca said. If it is not plausible that this magical world created itself, how plausible is it that an even more magical magician created it? Also see aca's humorous image that he posted a few pages ago, it's a nice summary of christian beliefs.
Is the existence of god plausible? No, I don't think it is. Why not? Go back to what aca said. If it is not plausible that this magical world created itself, how plausible is it that an even more magical magician created it? Also see aca's humorous image that he posted a few pages ago, it's a nice summary of christian beliefs.
You took time to reply to me? What is your problem?
Am I ever taken seriously?
Babble on......
Dude, you are the fucking man.
Am I ever taken seriously?
Babble on......
Damn, gray, i really wanted to go to bed
Long time no see
Glad to "meet" you again
True. It is also true that people in this thread claimed that the earth is "intelligently designed".
IF god takes credit for all the beauty in the world, why doesn't he/she take credit for all that is wrong in the world?
NOMA principle. refer to what i posted above. IF god controls the universe, he is controling the movement of the tectonic plates. IF he is not controlling the movement of tectonic plates, he is not controlling the universe.
Belief that two are not mutually exclusive between believers is correct. There are many believers that will not agree with me saying that god has that kind of power. Problem is that their opinion comes from a very liberal interpretation of their favorite book of truth. My question is simple. What is the criteria you apply when deciding which parts of the bible/koran are fact and which needs to be interpreted?
wrong. We do not try to understand things beyond ourselves. We are trying to understand things around us.
POE's law. It is hard to distinguish what is serious and what is a joke when talking about religion. Check out fstdt.com (http://fstdt.com/fundies/top100.aspx?archive=1) to check out the statements made by various believers from around the world. It is hard to believe what some people are ready to believe
...and work of thousand upon thousand persons that copied and adjusted the gospels to suit the needs and beliefs of their time. I could blaber about it for yonks, Misquoting jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misquoting_Jesus) follows the changes that took place in the bible throughout history, very often changing the basic meaning of the text.
Accounts of jesus's life were written anything from 30 to 60 years after his death. There were no eyewitnesses that wrote anything about him or his life. It was a story, told and re-told.
It made it through 2000 years of history because christians were the one to gain the control of "beliefs" of the roman empire. If it was any other sect, it would have been the beliefs of that sect that would be dominant today.
I'll check it out how long it took after Alexander's death to have his name mentioned. I'll bet that his life story as we know it today, came from the writings of historians of his time from various sources, friends and enemies. Same can not be said for jesus. Most of what we know about jesuse's life comes from writings of christians and throughout history those writings have been adjusted & edited. First non-christian mention of jesus is by Tacitus in the year of 116 and/or Pliny the Younger (112), and thats only mentioning his name, nothing about his works or philosophy.
ok, now i really need to go to sleep
night
Long time no see
Glad to "meet" you again
True. It is also true that people in this thread claimed that the earth is "intelligently designed".
IF god takes credit for all the beauty in the world, why doesn't he/she take credit for all that is wrong in the world?
NOMA principle. refer to what i posted above. IF god controls the universe, he is controling the movement of the tectonic plates. IF he is not controlling the movement of tectonic plates, he is not controlling the universe.
Belief that two are not mutually exclusive between believers is correct. There are many believers that will not agree with me saying that god has that kind of power. Problem is that their opinion comes from a very liberal interpretation of their favorite book of truth. My question is simple. What is the criteria you apply when deciding which parts of the bible/koran are fact and which needs to be interpreted?
wrong. We do not try to understand things beyond ourselves. We are trying to understand things around us.
POE's law. It is hard to distinguish what is serious and what is a joke when talking about religion. Check out fstdt.com (http://fstdt.com/fundies/top100.aspx?archive=1) to check out the statements made by various believers from around the world. It is hard to believe what some people are ready to believe
...and work of thousand upon thousand persons that copied and adjusted the gospels to suit the needs and beliefs of their time. I could blaber about it for yonks, Misquoting jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misquoting_Jesus) follows the changes that took place in the bible throughout history, very often changing the basic meaning of the text.
Accounts of jesus's life were written anything from 30 to 60 years after his death. There were no eyewitnesses that wrote anything about him or his life. It was a story, told and re-told.
It made it through 2000 years of history because christians were the one to gain the control of "beliefs" of the roman empire. If it was any other sect, it would have been the beliefs of that sect that would be dominant today.
I'll check it out how long it took after Alexander's death to have his name mentioned. I'll bet that his life story as we know it today, came from the writings of historians of his time from various sources, friends and enemies. Same can not be said for jesus. Most of what we know about jesuse's life comes from writings of christians and throughout history those writings have been adjusted & edited. First non-christian mention of jesus is by Tacitus in the year of 116 and/or Pliny the Younger (112), and thats only mentioning his name, nothing about his works or philosophy.
ok, now i really need to go to sleep
night