Diego Ribas da Cunha (53 Viewers)

[Martin]

None of them are bigger than the club itself.Never have been,and never will be.How you can even come up with a statement like that is appalling to say the least.

A clash of ideologies.

People who are down with the whole "club = tribe, and I belong" mentality fight to project an idea that all that really counts is the club. I've been exposed to this for as long as I can remember, and though I'm used to it, there's nothing inherently convincing about it.

Then there are people who idolize individuals and care way more about them than they do about some semi abstract entity the player happened to be involved with. What is a club really but a group of individuals? And the individual most important to the club cuts down the club in size dramatically if he were to leave. So what happened, all of a sudden the club doesn't function the way it used to. The player goes to a different club and suddenly that one is boosted. So much for the club being so important, evidently the player can do what he does just as well at another club.

The only sense in which it's logically meaningful to say that a club is bigger than a player is that a club has more than one player, but then one player can easily be more influential than another so even that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

 

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[roberto*baggio]

You know what?

I disagree. They said the same thing about Rome you know. Rome is an idea. Juventus is an idea. The idea is bigger than Caesar, the idea is bigger than Del Piero.

But it's not true. The emperors built Rome. They were Rome. Del Piero is Juventus. There's a time when the club is bigger than the player. It almost always is. But legends are bigger than the club. Del Piero is bigger than Juventus. Zidane is bigger than Real Madrid. Maradona is bigger than Napoli.

The whole club thing is bollocks.

Your posts are always full of hatred and animosity, and I remember an advice which was given to you many times on these boards, it's "Hey Seven, why don't you get laid?". Even though, your posts make sense.

Quite frankly, every word in the above post oozes nonsense and short-sightedness.

 

[JCK]

What is a club really but a group of individuals?

I beg to differ. A club is an institution and its history, its memories, its fans, its players, its ideologies, its approach, its emblem, its stadium, its all these and a lot more.

Without the players there is no team but the club will still exist.

 

[Suns]

You know what?

I disagree. They said the same thing about Rome you know. Rome is an idea. Juventus is an idea. The idea is bigger than Caesar, the idea is bigger than Del Piero.

But it's not true. The emperors built Rome. They were Rome. Del Piero is Juventus. There's a time when the club is bigger than the player. It almost always is. But legends are bigger than the club. Del Piero is bigger than Juventus. Zidane is bigger than Real Madrid. Maradona is bigger than Napoli.

The whole club thing is bollocks.

 

[The Curr]

 

[Suns]

 

[The Curr]

 

[HelterSkelter]

A clash of ideologies.

People who are down with the whole "club = tribe, and I belong" mentality fight to project an idea that all that really counts is the club. I've been exposed to this for as long as I can remember, and though I'm used to it, there's nothing inherently convincing about it.

Then there are people who idolize individuals and care way more about them than they do about some semi abstract entity the player happened to be involved with. What is a club really but a group of individuals? And the individual most important to the club cuts down the club in size dramatically if he were to leave. So what happened, all of a sudden the club doesn't function the way it used to. The player goes to a different club and suddenly that one is boosted. So much for the club being so important, evidently the player can do what he does just as well at another club.

The only sense in which it's logically meaningful to say that a club is bigger than a player is that a club has more than one player, but then one player can easily be more influential than another so even that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

But at the end of the day you we dont support Del Piero's Juventus,Gerrard's Liverpool,or Maradona's Napoli.We support Juventus,Liverpool and Napoli.

If we support a club because of a player alone,then that does bring your loyalty to the club in question.You're supporting the individual,and not the club.Having said that,the 'player being bigger than the club' argument might apply to a smaller club at some level,but definatley not to a club of Juve's stature.

 

[CAPITANO]

Diego enjoying some Mcdonalds

 

[Martin]

Your posts are always full of hatred and animosity, and I remember an advice which was given to you many times on these boards, it's "Hey Seven, why don't you get laid?". Even though, your posts make sense.

Quite frankly, every word in the above post oozes nonsense and short-sightedness.

No it doesn't. Maybe it's your dislike for Seven that is preventing you from seeing that he makes a few good points.

 

[HelterSkelter]

That post can have two meanings

 

[Martin]

But at the end of the day you we dont support Del Piero's Juventus,Gerrard's Liverpool,or Maradona's Napoli.We support Juventus,Liverpool and Napoli.

If we support a club because of a player alone,then that does bring your loyalty to the club in question.You're supporting the individual,and not the club.Having said that,the 'player being bigger than the club' argument might apply to a smaller club at some level,but definatley not to a club of Juve's stature.

Eye of the beholder, my friend. From your point of view, yes, Napoli has had more players than Maradona. But from the vantage point of a Maradona fan, Napoli is (was) a sideshow. A necessary prerequisite for Maradona to entertain. But once he left Napoli, there was no reason at all anymore to follow Napoli.

This kind of view exists, I know there are people who used to post on this forum who went and up and left when Zidane left because the Zidane Show had been moved from Juve to RM so naturally they moved on to RM. And you can bet your ass that there'll be quite a few who give up on Juve when DP gives it up.

The club attachment culture is stronger, notably because it has that group dynamic about it, everyone is together in something "eternal", the club never dies. Plus you make friends, you bond. But people who follow one player are not "wrong" either. Maybe that person is a massive inspiration in their life. Maybe that person is a projection of many qualities they admire (and I'm not belittling that by saying this btw, it's a normal human reflex).

Is DP bigger than Juve? First we need to establish: to whom?

 

[Martin]

That post can have two meanings

help me out

 

[Elvin]

Safe it, I would agree some can be too biased, if you just didnt flaunt your "oooh biased" card way too soon, I mean, people are saying Del Piero is not worse then Cantona, you know, Cristiano Ronaldo and Zizou wasnt mentionned for a reason, despite them being mentionned together with Cantona. But saying Cantona isnt better was enough for you to jump the gun and deem it biasm to say otherwise (you werent involved you say, but you conveniently enough said so when the Cantona-Ale thing was the topic).

I would understand if it was about clear big bias of involving a player who is clearly better (Zizou for one), but in this case, its more like you showing the biasm.


Btw, is Modric still better then Diego? Just checking

+rep

 

[Seven]

A clash of ideologies.

People who are down with the whole "club = tribe, and I belong" mentality fight to project an idea that all that really counts is the club. I've been exposed to this for as long as I can remember, and though I'm used to it, there's nothing inherently convincing about it.

Then there are people who idolize individuals and care way more about them than they do about some semi abstract entity the player happened to be involved with. What is a club really but a group of individuals? And the individual most important to the club cuts down the club in size dramatically if he were to leave. So what happened, all of a sudden the club doesn't function the way it used to. The player goes to a different club and suddenly that one is boosted. So much for the club being so important, evidently the player can do what he does just as well at another club.

The only sense in which it's logically meaningful to say that a club is bigger than a player is that a club has more than one player, but then one player can easily be more influential than another so even that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

You know this and I know this, Martin. It has been our little secret, but people constantly shouting "no one is bigger than Juventus" are so annoying that I had to do something about it.

Will I support Juventus when Del Piero quits? Of course, I supported them before he even played for Juventus. But is Juventus bigger than Del Piero? No, that's just nonsense coming from people who are desperately trying to be a group.

A man will always be bigger than an idea.

 

[Seven]

I beg to differ. A club is an institution and its history, its memories, its fans, its players, its ideologies, its approach, its emblem, its stadium, its all these and a lot more.

Without the players there is no team but the club will still exist.

It's an idea.

 

[Elvin]

Let's just agree with Don Lippi and say Juve = DP, and DP = Juve

 

[Seven]

Let's just agree with Don Lippi and say Juve = DP, and DP = Juve

It's like that ridiculous phrase: there's no I in team.

No? Really? No individuals? I'd say that's a pretty bold statement to make, coach.

 

[Bjerknes]

So what happens if Del Piero moves to DC United next year and states, "Juventus who?"

Does that still mean Del Piero IS Juventus, or greater than the club?

 

[Elvin]

It's like that ridiculous phrase: there's no I in team.

No? Really? No individuals? I'd say that's a pretty bold statement to make, coach.

But there is me in threesome

Seriously tho, I think what people mean by "the club is bigger" is that Juve has had many Del Pieros. And no matter how big they are, for a club like this they are very much replaceable. Just look how many number 10s we've had, and all of them were legends. Maybe being a star at Juventus is what makes them legends in the first place.