Diego DONE DEAL(read posts #1 & #4786) (63 Viewers)

Who deserves credit for this signing?

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Enoran

Senior Member
Nov 3, 2007
1,739
So does Diego fulfill these ?
A) Make Juve a stronger and better team
B) Patch up a major hole in the team that is creativity through the middle

In short, i think he does ...

CR has his reservation cos he does not want to change a winning formula. A new style will require a so-call stabilizing phase in which result might not go our way.
And when this happens, the media will hype up everything and anything that CR's job is on the line again like it did earlier this season.
 

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v1rtu4l

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2008
6,349
So does Diego fulfill these ?
A) Make Juve a stronger and better team
since a single player does not make a good team i say no.
since we are not used to play the ball always to a playmaker and all players would have to adjust to that and change their player, i say no.
since diego is not really the best team player, i say no ...

but you can buy him in fm, if you want ... it will surely work there


B) Patch up a major hole in the team that is creativity through the middle
a major hole that only exist in the mind of some fans ... would it be a real "major hole" than it is really fascinating that we managed to win so much with a hole in the team.



CR has his reservation cos he does not want to change a winning formula.
what's wrong with that ?
 

v1rtu4l

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2008
6,349
Its true that the players are making the difference in certain games and not the system. That could be argued for every game but imo the system and the structure is makes us a solid unit that is very hard to beat.
totally correct,

del piero and the other campioni will always make magic happen and be good for some goals out of nowhere ... these goals that now make us win games 1-0 ... but if we are not as solid and compact defensivly (with two dms) we will not have the 0 on the right side of result ... we will suffer much more on the back and so one magic moment of our attackers will not suffice to win, if you concede two goals ...

this whole "we need a playmaker to make our play more creative" comes up, when you get to greedy.

we grind out 1-0 results and keep winning...

what would happen in the fantasy world of the diego lovers, when diego played for us ? would we be winning every game 3-0 because of his great creativity ? forget it ! it would only shift the our system to have at least one player that is less defensive and you can do the math if momo does have no partner back there. he will be easily outplayed while diego rest in the opponents penalty box, after being exhausted from dribbling and showing off
 

CheSchifo!

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2009
642
Its true that the players are making the difference in certain games and not the system. That could be argued for every game but imo the system and the structure is makes us a solid unit that is very hard to beat.
But that's also because those players are made for that particular system.
 

Ahmed

Principino
Sep 3, 2006
47,928
still, he is a quality player and having tactical flexibility is not a bad thing...I get worried when I think about the Inter game when our team could do absolutely nothing against another solid defensive team...
 

v1rtu4l

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2008
6,349
still, he is a quality player and having tactical flexibility is not a bad thing...I get worried when I think about the Inter game when our team could do absolutely nothing against another solid defensive team...
i say it was a blessing in disguise that tiago got injured in that game ... with him on the team we would have been bullied around much more, than with the slightly more physical marchisio ... damn injuries, i really would have liked to see poulsen next to momo in such a match

fight fire with fire (or physical strength with physical strength in this case)
 

Rollie

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2008
5,143
People seem to think that keeping a system intact is more important than signing world class players.

Let me ask those this: what players win us games? Is it the system? Or is it certain players?

Exactly, it's certain players. Del Piero, Amauri, Camoranesi, and once Nedved. This is why a great manager such as Brian Clough would sign players before caring about a system.

But this doesn't make your arguments less meaningful. What makes your arguments somewhat void is that players such as Sissoko, Camoranesi and Zanetti have played under a diamond midfield before, so all they have to do is regulate themselves a bit more at first and become familiar with the new system for it to work. All these players have played such a system so some are claiming nonsensically that our players would be stifled if we used such a system. Nonsense. The system is what you make of it, and with strong players such as Sissoko, they can fill any role as long as you tell them what to do.

This is the crux of the situation. If we don't want to sign the best players around, then we really are indeed falling behind our own frailties.
I generally like your quality players argument - clearly I want the best players possible on my team. However, if one's not careful, then that can easily become an overly simplistic and largely subjective position.

It's not as simple as saying 'because some players have played different roles in the past, in different circumstances, than it'll work great again'. Even if those players you mentioned above could adjust well to the diamond midfield, my primary concern for the system changes would be the subsequent decrease in support for our unspectacular defense! Until the back line is further solidified, the 4-4-2 provides solid balance - I think said balance is evident from Juventus' current record.

I'm not worried about Sissoko, Camo, or Zanetti. I'm worried about Moli, Grygera, and Mellberg. How much time does Marchisio get? How well does De Ceglie play the left side of a diamond midfield (seeing as Nedved won't be around soon, and we have no other legitimate left footed mid), do we want Marco Marchionni to EVER play the right side of a diamond formation (Haven't seen it, but I'm thinking NO), etc., etc.

If you add Diego, and in the process make a bunch of players less effective (or obsolete), the results won't be as beneficial as anticipated - that's all. If it was summer, and there was an opportunity to make additional player changes, and time to really drill tactical adjustments etc., then a move for Diego would make considerable sense for me (as long as we had enough cash left to fill at least one more of our needs, and Ranieri was dedicated to a change in formation). In fact, if we sign Diego this summer, I'll probably celebrate like it's my fucking birthday!

But you can't say 'it's all about the players' when it's midseason, when we're chasing the Scudetto and getting ready for the knock out stages of the Champions league. Team management is clearly a HUGE variable; continuity, unity, and general player comfortability are key factors for the locker room; chemistry is hugely important for a team with Championship aspirations. Introducing one player who will significantly impact 5+ other players could severely harm Juventus' chemistry for the short term. We need seamless transitions at the moment - the schedule is about to get very tense.

BTW,what's your problem with Zhirkov? You think he's simply overrated? Everything I've ever seen and read has demonstrated to me that he's an excellent player (who could play in a couple of positions we need help at).

I'm not arguing against the quality of Diego, nor am I saying that I wouldn't love to see him at Juventus. I just think that at this point in time, for this season, Zhirkov would likely be more useful. He's only 25 and I think he's CL eligible as well, isn't he? We've gotta find someone to play that left side now.

Personally, I have a strong feeling that the day Diego plays for Juventus under Ranieri will be the day that it becomes mandatory for houses in flood prone areas of New Orleans to be constructed from gingerbread and gumdrops.

I honestly think that there is no way in hell he comes to Turin in January. It's possible that he could move in the summer, which would be awesome. Either way, we've got a LM slot that needs to be filled NOW, and multiple slots on defense that need to get filled ASAP - those moves should be the priority.
 

Alltagsheld

Senior Member
Oct 10, 2006
3,183
Klaus Allofs (manager of Werder) said yesterday, that there has not been any contact with Juve, there won't be a meeting in Bremen and Werder does not have the intention to sell Diego anyway.

source: Weser Kurier, Bremen (>>>>>>>>>>>Gazzetta>Corriere>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tuttosport)
 

sateeh

Day Walker
Jul 28, 2003
8,020
But that's also because those players are made for that particular system.
Could be, but i think that the effect on players like alex and amauri would be minimal but more in the case of other players.
still, he is a quality player and having tactical flexibility is not a bad thing...I get worried when I think about the Inter game when our team could do absolutely nothing against another solid defensive team...
i say it was a blessing in disguise that tiago got injured in that game ... with him on the team we would have been bullied around much more, than with the slightly more physical marchisio ... damn injuries, i really would have liked to see poulsen next to momo in such a match

fight fire with fire (or physical strength with physical strength in this case)
I think if Tiago was there we would've been better off because that another creative point that they will have to mark/close down. If Poulsen was we might've pulled a draw but nothing more.

Anyway games like the Inter game prove there is a gap and i agree about that. The question is that how are you going to address that gap.
 
Mar 30, 2006
3,747
Could be, but i think that the effect on players like alex and amauri would be minimal but more in the case of other players.


I think if Tiago was there we would've been better off because that another creative point that they will have to mark/close down. If Poulsen was we might've pulled a draw but nothing more.

Anyway games like the Inter game prove there is a gap and i agree about that. The question is that how are you going to address that gap.
the inter game was more of a one off I think. We were not clicking at all and we were missing some players. They beat us by a fluke goal either way and we were playing away from home.

I think if we replayed that game now it would be very different. Inter are playing horrible at the moment.
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
the inter game was more of a one off I think. We were not clicking at all and we were missing some players. They beat us by a fluke goal either way and we were playing away from home.

I think if we replayed that game now it would be very different. Inter are playing horrible at the moment.
Kind of unfair to say they beat you with a fluke goal. I mean they dominated that match from start to end, they had more chances, and the better team won. Credit where its due.
 

sateeh

Day Walker
Jul 28, 2003
8,020
the inter game was more of a one off I think. We were not clicking at all and we were missing some players. They beat us by a fluke goal either way and we were playing away from home.

I think if we replayed that game now it would be very different. Inter are playing horrible at the moment.
Kind of unfair to say they beat you with a fluke goal. I mean they dominated that match from start to end, they had more chances, and the better team won. Credit where its due.
Case can be said both ways here, but the point is that we couldn't lift ourselves against a team that is very organised and plays with high intensity.

One more thing is with last night's performance from Gio, shouldn't we save the money and give him a fair go ?
 

sateeh

Day Walker
Jul 28, 2003
8,020
Am i following? You think its fair to say that Inter were lucky and won by a fluke goal?
No, but imo they dominated without creating real chances. The goal was coming because we couldn't do anything right because of the pressure they put on our key players.
 
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