Diego DONE DEAL(read posts #1 & #4786) (29 Viewers)

[DelpieroForLife]

If you ask me, the diego-rumour is not true. I can't really give facts for it but to, everything points against a transfer of him to juve.
First of all, it seems nedved is being offered a new contract for another season.
Then there is ranieri, who i think will be confirmed for another season at least and he clearly said he didn't want a trequartista and he didn't want diego. I don't really believe the newspapers saying that ranieri "changed his mind" because that would lead me to another point; why should we change our system. now we discussed this for a long time on this board, and i can hear already people typing "world class players like diego deserve being bought regardless of system and formation", and you are right, but still...

Then there was the fabregas-rumor. Now i know that this deal seems impossible, and i wouldn't ever believe that thing if it came from a newspaper. but the fact that it comes from "acb" over at vecchiasignora (i'm following that board rather closely), who already 'predicted' the poulsen-deal, gives me that little spark of hope...

That's why i'm a bit in a dilemma when it comes to diego. It's sure that he is a player of world class, and all. but if i had to choose between diego and fabregas, there would be no doubt whatsoever whom i would chose. The spaniard is just another level higher imo.

I'm following the bundesliga, and what a lot of people seem to neglect is that diego hasn't delivered that much lately. The only things that brought him in the headlines were his red-cards for strangling and such. In fact, I was reading comments on german news sites about the diego-to-juve-rumor and you'd be surprised how many werder-fans say things like "for 25mio, sell immediately".

That said, my personal (!) opinion would be to splash these amounts on a LMA. we're losing a big name with nedved, and i'd much rather have a silva or zhirkov for those 20-30m then creating a new position for someone. now this is my personal opinion... because i don't like to rely on one only player. If we adopt to the playmaker-4-4-2, then we all have to pray that diego doesn't get injured or suspended, because otherwise, we have to change our system again...

I have this feeling that our summer-transfer-window will be the following;
Trez to ManCity for 20-25m
Iaquinta to Tottenham - Quagliarella to replace him
Fabregas to Juve for 30-35m
Silva to Juve for another 20-25m

we stick with the traditional 4-4-2, kick ass and win serie a, CL, Coppa, get Del Piero the FIFA world player award and Ranieri will be the first person to be a saint while alive.

There is no way on god's green earth that we're ever going to be seeing Fabregas in black and white. No way Arsene lets go of him in the near future (as he's the Gooners new captain and is locked into a long term contract), not to mention the fact that he would clearly have a preference for a return to Spain if he was to ever move.

If we were to buy Hamsik (Which is basically impossible...For what, 40M Euro? more? Napoli value him at a ridiculously high number, are refusing to sell him, and there is no shortage of suitors), than where would Claudio play? Marchisio is getting better all the time and he's a hometown boy, a product of the system - he deserves a legitimate shot, and all the quotes that I've heard from Cobolli and Ranieri etc., indicate that he'll get that opportunity.

I would obviously enjoy Diego, but we would have to change formation. Diego could possibly work, but offers a huge investment risk, would take time to assimilate and is too complicated a move to make right now. If we were going to grab this player, change the system, shake up multiple positions and disrupt the mindset of many players, it would happen during the summer - not in the middle of a currently promising and successful season. I don't think Diego is the player Juve needs...

We have got to fix the LM spot now. I love Pavel, he's one of my all time favorite players, but for the sake of the team, this should probably be his last year. It hurts me to say that, but the board needs to be proactive - plugging such a vital position with a 37 year old, regardless of the intangibles he brings to the table, is not a wise decision for a team with title ambitions. We can really only afford to keep him if the board upgrades at LM significantly, and then tells Pavel that he'll rarely play. I heard a rumor this morning about extending him for another year, and I nearly vomited all over my couch. If he were to get hurt right now, we'd have DC to back up that spot. Seba is NOT a LM, he doesn't play that position effectively in the 4-4-2. We need a LM.

To be honest, I think the Zhirkov move would be a strong play for the second half. He's tremendously skilled and at age 25, offers an excellent balance of youth and experience. I wonder if Ranieri will ever decide whether DC is going to play predominantly at LM or at LB - obviously that's a crucial decision when planning for the future. Either way, both Zhirkov and DC can offer cover for multiple positions down the left, which is useful in the event that our stalwart LB gets hurt. HA.

I won't even make any sarcastic comments about said LB at this time, as he has been playing much better than last year. Nice to see some progress from Moli... he's not where he ultimately needs to be, and I think eventually it will be DC at LB, but one has gotta give Molinaro props for his work ethic, loyalty and desire. Obviously these are the characteristics that have endeared him to Ranieri (that, and their frequent late night rendezvous').

Dammit. Ok, I'll only make 1 sarcastic comment about Molinaro. It's going to take me awhile to get use to Moli not being Juventus' worst starting 11 player, a distinction that temporarily belongs to the black hole that is Marco Marchionni.

Forza Molinaro, Forza Juventus!!

good post rollie. I agree with most you said. Of course, the fabregas rumor is what we're dreaming of, and i'm not going to bet on it. But there are certain factors one should not neglect. The financial crisis hitting both the premier league and the british £, the fact that arsenal could miss CL-qualification, the fact that wenger might not be their coach forever, fabregas' desire to leave (even if his destination would be spain probably).
That said, i don't think he'll come to us in the end. but it's not so-out-of-this-world as many people believe it is. I think, if we're really getting into a position where we can pick a player we want; maybe not of the class of fabregas, but maybe for a silva or zirkhov. We're getting a hyper-modern stadium, we're making ourselves a name in CL and we're surprising everyone in the title race for serie-a. Those are important factors too, because you don't get the silvas and diegos of this world if you're battling for a CL-spot.
Plus, the fact that we're playing CL, and the fact that we're doing fine overall makes our budget grow year after year. I mean we spent 20m for amauri (even if there are player-swaps included), and i'm sure we can drop such a sum again for a player... Plus, we should start making money out of those numerous players we're having around (palladino, ...)

I think someone like silva or zirkhov should be our main target. Not only for the skill and potential point of view, but also for the advertising of our juve in the world. I wouldn't ever want juve to become the next milan, but it's important to hit the big names in order to stay in business. Selling jerseys, bringing people into the stadiums, rebuilding reputation worldwide, ...

What is so wrong with one linear ppl? Did someone clone Cronios?

 

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[Hust]

Good post (Rollie)

Dammit. Ok, I'll only make 1 sarcastic comment about Molinaro. It's going to take me awhile to get use to Moli not being Juventus' worst starting 11 player, a distinction that temporarily belongs to the black hole that is Marco Marchionni.

 

[BarkuZ-yes i am an ass]

I have this feeling that our summer-transfer-window will be the following;
Trez to ManCity for 20-25m
Iaquinta to Tottenham - Quagliarella to replace him
Fabregas to Juve for 30-35m
Silva to Juve for another 20-25m

we stick with the traditional 4-4-2, kick ass and win serie a, CL, Coppa, get Del Piero the FIFA world player award and Ranieri will be the first person to be a saint while alive.

wea,exactly I tought and done that on Cm 00-01

 

[Bjerknes]

People are saying that they would prefer a left winger to a playmaker, and that Zhirkov would be a good choice as the left winger.

I doubt anyone would say that Zhirkov is the better player, just that he may suit us better.

I still don't understand why people are so afraid of changing systems. Some teams change systems every other week and are still successful.

 

[tassard]

What is this inane hype over Zhirkov? People are saying they want Zhirkov instead of Diego? Lol what total nonsense but to be expected.

Not as a player.Maybe they prefer a new LM than a trequartista.
And to keep the flat 4-4-2


edit

oops, F5 is needed sometimes

 

[Alen]

That I defenitely agree with. He is very inconsistent. His main consistency is finding space and popping up there to score, like a poacher. Otherwise, his overall game is flawed, because he dissapears too much from games. But he defenitely has the qualities to be a real top shelf player, he just needs to find the consistency for it.

For some reason Hamsik tends to disappear for longer periods but ONLY on away matches against the stronger teams.
I can't explain it

What you said is completely false for most of the other matches. He's everywhere during the full 90 minutes.

 

[Hust]

I still don't understand why people are so afraid of changing systems. Some teams change systems every other week and are still successful.

Thats what I'm thinking. Great players find ways to adapt and deliver. Thats what makes them great, because they have the ability to mold themselves as necessary to get the job done.

 

[Red]

I still don't understand why people are so afraid of changing systems. Some teams change systems every other week and are still successful.

Some teams do, but not many do it well.

I can understand why people would like to see us play with a more creative player in the centre, but it is not a system that I particularly like.

There are arguments for and against changing system and I won't complain about the decision that is made, provided it is a high quality attacking midfielder or left winger that is brought in.

 

[blondu]

Thats what I'm thinking. Great players find ways to adapt and deliver. Thats what makes them great, because they have the ability to mold themselves as necessary to get the job done.

that depends on what we want to do in this year...if we want the title..we cannot experiment new formations...every point counts. The thing is that Juve never played anything else but 4-4-2 under Ranieri. If he would've gave a chance for another formation in the pre-season he would had a clue at how the team will react to a change of formation. Imo we should stick to 4-4-2 .. and ranieri will stick to this.

 

[RavaneVialli]

What is the point in this discussion, while our system works very well? Even Tinkerman knows that if it moves, and keeps moving, there's no need to regulate it. We are winning, but some fans want a change in order to, I don't know, stop winning for some time? A time that team needs to change the tactics.

 

[Fred]

For some reason Hamsik tends to disappear for longer periods but ONLY on away matches against the stronger teams.
I can't explain it

What you said is completely false for most of the other matches. He's everywhere during the full 90 minutes.

Catania at the San Paulo last week?

 

[Alen]

Catania at the San Paulo last week?

I didn't watch it. It was at the same time with Juve's match. But probably on 80% of those matches i'm talking about he has full control of the midfield and works hard.

 

[Hust]

that depends on what we want to do in this year...if we want the title..we cannot experiment new formations...every point counts. The thing is that Juve never played anything else but 4-4-2 under Ranieri. If he would've gave a chance for another formation in the pre-season he would had a clue at how the team will react to a change of formation. Imo we should stick to 4-4-2 .. and ranieri will stick to this.

I know its probably a bad idea for a complete renovation half way through the season. It would make more sense given we do get diego to do it this summer. I guess as the saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." I think either way we go it is going to be expensive. Diego will be expensive for that change in formation. If we keep the 4-4-2 then we need to find a "real" replacement for nedved. I quoted "real" because I dont mean a quick fix/band aid kind of replacement but a real long term player that will be capable of producing what our golden boy nedved did in his prime. That will not come cheap. Not to mention a strong MC (not DM). Marchisio cant be expected to jump into the shoes of a world-class player like fabregas anytime soon, but a couple years down the road a strong possibility. Like i said, either way we go we will need to spend a lot to get that extra edge we need. Whether its an AMC or LM plus we cant ignore our RB position much longer, especially with Camo in and out of injury. We become limp on that side with out Camo.

What is the point in this discussion, while our system works very well? Even Tinkerman knows that if it moves, and keeps moving, there's no need to regulate it. We are winning, but some fans want a change in order to, I don't know, stop winning for some time? A time that team needs to change the tactics.

I see what your saying but if we change formations for a player like Diego there is no guarantee that we would stop winning. But until we get a LM given we stay for a 4-4-2 or get a player like diegomwe became agonizingly predictable and will struggle even at home against a team like Siena.

 

[Rollie]

What is this inane hype over Zhirkov? People are saying they want Zhirkov instead of Diego? Lol what total nonsense but to be expected.

In my opinion, Zhirkov has a huge amount of skill. His ability to play at a very high level in 2 positions where we're relatively weak at, two positions that could in all honesty use an upgrade, well that is appealing to me. I like the flexibility it could provide, especially as we wait to see what Ranieri will eventually do with De Ceglie.

People are saying that they would prefer a left winger to a playmaker, and that Zhirkov would be a good choice as the left winger.

I doubt anyone would say that Zhirkov is the better player, just that he may suit us better.

Exactly, spot on. Diego is obviously phenomenal, I've wanted him at Juve since these rumors started to go nuts well over a year ago. However, there would have to be significant changes for this move to work properly.

I think the team is playing well right now (or was before the break), and we're about to incorporate a bunch of injured guys back into our lineup. If you add a major purchase and a significant change in the system there could be some major bumps. I just don't think that now is the time to implement those larger changes.

I would love to see Diego move to Juventus in the summer. Signing Zhirkov now would not necessarily preclude a move for Diego in June. It is a lot of cash, but with a few sales, it wouldn't be impossible.

I still don't understand why people are so afraid of changing systems. Some teams change systems every other week and are still successful.

Seeing as our Defense still needs an upgrade at multiple positions, in terms of quality and depth, I just don't think our lineup would do particularly well with frequent system changes. What if we have a significant injury to one of our defensive starters? A couple of those guys need all the support, all the cover they can get, and the 4-4-2 helps out immensely right now.

 

[Amaurisimo]

i would also prefer Zhirkov over Diego , but only because it would suit our playing system better. There should not be any doubt about Diago's skill, but our system works well, so no need to risk for little or no improvement.

btw. just saw some site saying that we are ready to pay £30 mil for David Silva who would be ideal Nedved replacement.

 

[Enoran]

i would also prefer Zhirkov over Diego , but only because it would suit our playing system better. There should not be any doubt about Diago's skill, but our system works well, so no need to risk for little or no improvement.

btw. just saw some site saying that we are ready to pay £30 mil for David Silva who would be ideal Nedved replacement.

Since its for a Nedved's replacement and a fundamental position for CR's 4-4-2, when its time to pay, u got to pay

But I'm not quite sure if Juve's mgmt is ready to pay that kind of money or the question lies whether they have that kind of money.

And since Juve is blessed with the young Marchisio, somebody else's got to be off-loaded from the C. Midfield position to subsidizes the funds required, Almiron is definitely one of them.

 

[JCK]

I still don't understand why people are so afraid of changing systems. Some teams change systems every other week and are still successful.

Because we are still fragile. When Ranieri started with small changes at the beginning of the season we performed horrible.

 

[Bjerknes]

People seem to think that keeping a system intact is more important than signing world class players.

Let me ask those this: what players win us games? Is it the system? Or is it certain players?

Exactly, it's certain players. Del Piero, Amauri, Camoranesi, and once Nedved. This is why a great manager such as Brian Clough would sign players before caring about a system.

But this doesn't make your arguments less meaningful. What makes your arguments somewhat void is that players such as Sissoko, Camoranesi and Zanetti have played under a diamond midfield before, so all they have to do is regulate themselves a bit more at first and become familiar with the new system for it to work. All these players have played such a system so some are claiming nonsensically that our players would be stifled if we used such a system. Nonsense. The system is what you make of it, and with strong players such as Sissoko, they can fill any role as long as you tell them what to do.

This is the crux of the situation. If we don't want to sign the best players around, then we really are indeed falling behind our own frailties.

 

[Amaurisimo]

once CR said that he will not play 433 without Trez?
What will happen if we really dont sell Trez, which is likely, and do start to play much more often than last season with this for us new formation? Also in that case we could see DC as LM whenever we revert to old system.

you are right, singing the best players might be way to go (if u have money), but than again team is the one who will bring you win.
We are now team...

 

[sateeh]

People seem to think that keeping a system intact is more important than signing world class players.

Let me ask those this: what players win us games? Is it the system? Or is it certain players?

Exactly, it's certain players. Del Piero, Amauri, Camoranesi, and once Nedved. This is why a great manager such as Brian Clough would sign players before caring about a system.

But this doesn't make your arguments less meaningful. What makes your arguments somewhat void is that players such as Sissoko, Camoranesi and Zanetti have played under a diamond midfield before, so all they have to do is regulate themselves a bit more at first and become familiar with the new system for it to work. All these players have played such a system so some are claiming nonsensically that our players would be stifled if we used such a system. Nonsense. The system is what you make of it, and with strong players such as Sissoko, they can fill any role as long as you tell them what to do.

This is the crux of the situation. If we don't want to sign the best players around, then we really are indeed falling behind our own frailties.

Its true that the players are making the difference in certain games and not the system. That could be argued for every game but imo the system and the structure is makes us a solid unit that is very hard to beat.

I agree that we have some quality players that could play in different systems but the problem lies in other positions and other effects on the team. The difference makers are fine but the we have some players in the team that are protected by the solidity of the team. It took us a long time to create that in the team. We will need to replace more than one position imo.

The question is whether it is worthwhile changing to whole new way of playing for the sake of one or two players, or simply keep the system and bring in players with different characteristics and who are closer to this way of playing.