[Coppa] Parma vs Juventus (3 Viewers)

[Paolo Sosa]

feilding tiago zanetti and almiron could actually work but if we played with one striker. this will creat much creativity and we will have the goals comes from all over the midfeild. although i hate Ac milan but we could copy the formation of the dimond.

------------------------------Zanetti
--------------Tiago-------------Almiron--------Rino

----------------------------------------Neddy
------------------------------Trezgoll

 

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[Kosta]

Thanks? Does the multiple posts offend you.

I didn't realize so many posts were written in the short time frame. Relax, the earth is still spinning.

I'm relaxed, don't you worry about me.

 

[dossis1986]

buffon 6
chilieni 7.5 (mvp)
andrade 6
zebina 5.5
nocerino 5.5
tiago 5.5
almiron 6+
salixam... 6.5
iaquinda 6
trezegue 6
legro 6
bumsong 6
molinaro 6+

 

[swag]

World CLASS not World Cup. WORLD CLASS.

Gattuso > Essien

...as opposed to WORLD ASS.

Matterazzi > Van Nistelrooy

Because Tiago is in a new country, new club, new leauge, give the man the time to adapt to everything. Zanetti and Nocerino are here their whole life, I'm not a pro football player but I think that's a very imortant aspect of a player's career. Everything chanfes all of a sudden, it takes more than a month for your life not just your performance on the pith to get back to normal. Tiago from Lyon, or any other club he played before, IMO beats both of them. Some players adapt quicker, some slower, some don't at all, therefore I think it's unfair to compair them now.

Yep. People quickly forget how important the home pitch advantage is for a club and its players. Here you're dealing with an entire country, its language, its culture, etc. It often takes a while to get that home pitch performance out of a player who just immigrates.

Every match for Tiago is an away match and then some until he gets the chance to settle in.

Tiago is not Sheva.

I think there's even money on Tiago ending up with more goals than Sheva this season. umpkin:

 

[JCK]

I think Tiago will be introduced slowly to the team, I am sure he will adapt soon.

Then about Nocerino and Zanetti being better than him is just not right. Nocerino was below average against Parma, he was playing out of position and he did not use it to work as Gatusso and give the wing back more freedom up the flank, instead he uses the wing and he's NOT a winger.

As for Zanetti and Tiago, definitely the Italian is much better but this does not mean that both can play at the same time.

 

[Juve per sempre]

feilding tiago zanetti and almiron could actually work but if we played with one striker. this will creat much creativity and we will have the goals comes from all over the midfeild. although i hate Ac milan but we could copy the formation of the dimond.

------------------------------Zanetti
--------------Tiago-------------Almiron--------Rino

----------------------------------------Neddy
------------------------------Trezgoll

I think a support striker is a must in Juve.After all Neddy is not Kaka,Rino is not Seedorf & Almiron is not Pirlo.

 

[Juve per sempre]

I think Tiago will be introduced slowly to the team, I am sure he will adapt soon.

Then about Nocerino and Zanetti being better than him is just not right. Nocerino was below average against Parma, he was playing out of position and he did not use it to work as Gatusso and give the wing back more freedom up the flank, instead he uses the wing and he's NOT a winger.

As for Zanetti and Tiago, definitely the Italian is much better but this does not mean that both can play at the same time.

Do u mean Zanetti is better as a player or u r speaking about the first 2 matches?

 

[Gill_juve]

It's completely absurd to label Tiago an "average" player. Sorry, but both of you didn't pay attention to his time at Chelsea and probably are dumbfounded by the fact Chelsea let him go. Mourinho wholeheartedly wanted to keep Tiago, however the player wanted to leave because Essien, in a class of his own, was purchased. 99% of Chelsea fans will tell you Tiago was a key player for them during 2004/ 2005 season where they won the Premiership and he had 51 appearances to boot. I remember that he did have a hard time at first in England, but after more and more appearances, he really started to show his worth.

But apparently you people don't want to give him time. Fine. I expect nothing more from a poster such as tonykart, though. I'm sure he didn't watch Ligue 1 nor the EPL during Tiago's stint in England, so his opinion really doesn't matter.

exactly, tiago was great for chelsea.

 

[JCK]

Do u mean Zanetti is better as a player or u r speaking about the first 2 matches?

I don't mean that Zanetti is a better player, he's currently doing better and he adds balance to the team every time he's on the pitch and I don't see a problem having both play at the same time.

 

[Juve per sempre]

I don't mean that Zanetti is a better player, he's currently doing better and he adds balance to the team every time he's on the pitch and I don't see a problem having both play at the same time.

Agreed!
I really want to see an Almiron_Zanetti_Tiago midfield before Camo come back to full fitness & take his place in the team,maybe against Cagliari Ranieri could do it.

 

[Jun-hide]

In contrast to most people, I actually liked what I have seen from Nocerino. Yes, he is a bit casual with a ball, but in a match against Livorno and moreover for Azzurrini, Nocerino showed good sense of attacking nous. He runs and acts like Rino, but that is just a pure deception. Nocerino is better technically than granted here IMO.

As Andy said Tiago deserves his chances. And I am sure he will get his share as the season progress. There are bound to be injuries in a long season, and at some point, Zanetti, Nocerino or Almiron will breakdown. Zanetti lets not forget has suffered with niggling injuries in the past. Its difficult to play well suddenly whilst sitting on the bench for a long time, but Tiago only got himself to blame for that with having poor pre-season.

Anyway, people we should chill out. Juve won 5-1 and 3-1 against Serie A opposition! At least we not playing Rimni, Lecce, and Albinoeffe! Beside competition for places can only be good for the team. Hopefully this will spur Tiago to find his form quickly, which judging by his cameo role in a match against Livorno, he is in the process of doing so.

 

[Red]

In contrast to most people, I actually liked what I have seen from Nocerino. Yes, he is a bit casual with a ball, but in a match against Livorno and moreover for Azzurrini, Nocerino showed good sense of attacking nous. He runs and acts like Rino, but that is just a pure deception. Nocerino is better technically than granted here IMO.

As Andy said Tiago deserves his chances. And I am sure he will get his share as the season progress. There are bound to be injuries in a long season, and at some point, Zanetti, Nocerino or Almiron will breakdown. Zanetti lets not forget has suffered with niggling injuries in the past. Its difficult to play well suddenly whilst sitting on the bench for a long time, but Tiago only got himself to blame for that with having poor pre-season.

Anyway, people we should chill out. Juve won 5-1 and 3-1 against Serie A opposition! At least we not playing Rimni, Lecce, and Albinoeffe! Beside competition for places can only be good for the team. Hopefully this will spur Tiago to find his form quickly, which judging by his cameo role in a match against Livorno, he is in the process of doing so.

And the prize for the person who I agree with most often goes to......Jun-hide.

You want to be careful, I'm not sure you are allowed to talk sense ths much round here.

 

[ZhiXin]

And the prize for the person who I agree with most often goes to......Jun-hide.

You want to be careful, I'm not sure you are allowed to talk sense ths much round here.

He can, TBH everybody can have the freedom to talk what they want to. No wonder Miranda told me that she has no interest to post here anymore.

About Tiago, he should be given more time to prove himself, he's having some barriers adapting to the Italian environment, and it takes time to adjust to a totally new environment of football and life. People are like expecting players to be Robots to perform well in whatever they do without errors.

 

[Lion]

C'mon... you can't be serious. Why even pick up Essien then? If Tiago was so good wouldn't he still have a starting spot? Why would they do that. Common sense ratboy... common sense. I watch Ligue 1 and EPL all the time it is always on the TV in the states. I am not responding to that because I am above that. Who even says those things? It is childish. Argue the point.

one of Chelsea's tactics in the last years was picking buying players that other teams were interested in (such as Essien, Obi Mikel, Wright-Phillips, and the such). Arsenal and ManU were interested in Essien before Chelsea.

 

[Jun-hide]

He can, TBH everybody can have the freedom to talk what they want to. No wonder Miranda told me that she has no interest to post here anymore.

About Tiago, he should be given more time to prove himself, he's having some barriers adapting to the Italian environment, and it takes time to adjust to a totally new environment of football and life. People are like expecting players to be Robots to perform well in whatever they do without errors.

Good points everyone has right to express their views. This forum has never been short on that, and that is why I enjoy posting here even if I dont always do so. I mean we are winning handsomely and people are still complaining! Forum is good place to hear opinions of fans and catch up with news since I doubt if there is anyone who watch every single league in Europe. Lets say, as long as people can agree to the rule which should govern the forum, they are free to express their opinions. Actually I say some good posters opinions are more valuable than news report, because those report so conservative that they are so yesterday's news.

On Tiago, I havent overly impressed by what I saw from in few CL matches, and a game against Monaco. He looked as one of those type who tries to get the ball quickly off feet, and find better space to receive it. So I wasnt quite convinced with his technical aspects. But nevertheless, his style of playing requires him to understand teammates better vice verse, so one can understand his difficulty in adjusting to the league.

But even without Tiago our team looks pretty good. Nocerino reminds me of Conte. A lot heart, full of enthusiasm, and more effective going forward than most give credit for. As a matter of fact, I think his distribution and defending is weakness for DM, so I believe he is better off playing right hand side of 3 man midfield than orthodox CM. I am not sure Tiago can fulfill the role as well as Nocerino.

 

[JCK]

one of Chelsea's tactics in the last years was picking buying players that other teams were interested in (such as Essien, Obi Mikel, Wright-Phillips, and the such). Arsenal and ManU were interested in Essien before Chelsea.

If not buying Italian players, tonykart will not understand the point of buying players.

 

[Vinman]

Regardless of the cheap shot at tonykart, it IS true. Tiago at the moment is inferior to both Nocerino and Zanetti.

It would also be simply idiotic to play him, just because he is our most expensive player.

I'm not denying anybody a chance, but Tiago has taken the least use of his chances so far.

You don't need to make excuses for Tiago. If Tiago starts performing, he'll find his way into the team soon enough himself. Right now, this isn't the case though. With our other midfielders are performing well, Tiago is rightfully down in the pecking order. We should simply play the players in the best shape.

No, they call it shortsighted actually .

I'm not turning my back on Tiago. He deserves his chance, but he won't be a starter as long as he does not fully convince during his chances, while the others do.

int:

I dont remember agreeing with Dom so much !!

Anyways, I hope (but doubt) that Tiago will justify such a hefty price

 

[V]

On Tiago, I havent overly impressed by what I saw from in few CL matches, and a game against Monaco. He looked as one of those type who tries to get the ball quickly off feet, and find better space to receive it. So I wasnt quite convinced with his technical aspects. But nevertheless, his style of playing requires him to understand teammates better vice verse, so one can understand his difficulty in adjusting to the league.

I noticed that too, even in all the matches he played for us. He doesn't seem to be too comfortable with the ball at his feet and doesn't seek out duels one on one. Depending on the way you look at it, that can be good or bad for a player playing in his position. Since we have players in the team that know and can make an extra player by dribbling, I don't see a problem with that. Afterall he's a central midfielder, not a fantasista. All I want him to do is get his movement and passing back. Especially through balls as that's something Trez, even Iaquinta if he learns not to over-run himself with the ball every time, can use and it's something we lacked ever since Zidane left. Our play switched completelly to the wings and I see that changing this year, maybe not completelly but I see a balance between distribution from the flanks(Camo and Nedved) and from the middle(Almiron and Tiago). Lets not forget, Tiago can also pull out a cannon every now and then which is also something we lacked from the middle. I have no doubts about him, he just needs time.

 

[Jun-hide]

I noticed that too, even in all the matches he played for us. He doesn't seem to be too comfortable with the ball at his feet and doesn't seek out duels one on one. Depending on the way you look at it, that can be good or bad for a player playing in his position. Since we have players in the team that know and can make an extra player by dribbling, I don't see a problem with that. Afterall he's a central midfielder, not a fantasista. All I want him to do is get his movement and passing back. Especially through balls as that's something Trez, even Iaquinta if he learns not to over-run himself with the ball every time, can use and it's something we lacked ever since Zidane left. Our play switched completelly to the wings and I see that changing this year, maybe not completelly but I see a balance between distribution from the flanks(Camo and Nedved) and from the middle(Almiron and Tiago). Lets not forget, Tiago can also pull out a cannon every now and then which is also something we lacked from the middle. I have no doubts about him, he just needs time.

You are right vlatko. CM defintely doesnt need to beat players one on one to be effective. What stroke me by Tiago, however, is that he is somewhat unorthdox of CM. He doesn quite distribute the ball in the midfield, Toulalan did that for him at Lyon. He is no natural ball winner either. I am just not so sure about such intelligent players, because technical qualities required in Serie A is far superior to that of League 1. In that respect, I am encouraged by what I have seen in his cameo appearance against Parma. Basically, he looked a lot more decisive than I thought he was, which I like, because I dont like players making useless 3 yard passes in midfield, unless you are just sitting back in front of defence.

On shooting good point. I am def. happy that both Almiron and Tiago, have cannon shot. OMG, the contrast can not be more clear than Viera and Emerson. I bet I can probably shooting better than those two. Just kidding, but they were terrible shooter with zero threat from midfield. I expect not huge amount, but some contribution from both this season. As you have pointed out, this team isnt specialized team of Capello where you got players who just defend, and players who just attack, and there are players like Neddy who does everything.:eyebrows:. This Juve side is far more balanced in terms of both attack and defence, which will make me very entertained, since I just cant believe you can play attractive game without all participating bit of this and bit of that.

 

[V]

You are right vlatko. CM defintely doesnt need to beat players one on one to be effective. What stroke me by Tiago, however, is that he is somewhat unorthdox of CM. He doesn quite distribute the ball in the midfield, Toulalan did that for him at Lyon. He is no natural ball winner either. I am just not so sure about such intelligent players, because technical qualities required in Serie A is far superior to that of League 1. In that respect, I am encouraged by what I have seen in his cameo appearance against Parma. Basically, he looked a lot more decisive than I thought he was, which I like, because I dont like players making useless 3 yard passes in midfield, unless you are just sitting back in front of defence.

On shooting good point. I am def. happy that both Almiron and Tiago, have cannon shot. OMG, the contrast can not be more clear than Viera and Emerson. I bet I can probably shooting better than those two. Just kidding, but they were terrible shooter with zero threat from midfield. I expect not huge amount, but some contribution from both this season. As you have pointed out, this team isnt specialized team of Capello where you got players who just defend, and players who just attack, and there are players like Neddy who does everything.:eyebrows:. This Juve side is far more balanced in terms of both attack and defence, which will make me very entertained, since I just cant believe you can play attractive game without all participating bit of this and bit of that.

I don't know about Lyon, I very rarely watched Ligue 1, if at all, but from what I remember from Chelsea he was quite effective at distributing the ball. Surely, nothing fancy but he always knew where to give it most effectivelly. Sometimes that be to the closest player to him and sometimes a nice through ball all the way to the forwards.

Either way, our central midfield this season will definetly be a lot more balanced than the Capello era midfield. I didn't wanna say anything about Emo and Vieria, because they're both WC midfielders at the end of the day, but I'm glad you brought it up. That central midfield was hailed by the media and pundits as one of the best, like it's a mouthwatering combination of skill and defensive abilities, when truth be told, it was probably the most unbalanced combination ever. There was zero threat coming from there, both in terms of passing(except a nice through ball by Vieira here and there) and especially shooting. Tiago and Almiron are quite the opposite of the two and though not as much, they are also a unbalanced combination because they lack that defensive assurance which central midfield needs to give. Both are average defensivelly but with the inclusion of either Zanetti or Nocerino that central midfield gets a whole dimension. When Tiago hits form, and I'm sure he will, I'm really eager to see a 4-3-3 or a 4-5-1, 3-man midfield of Tiago, Almiron and Zanetti/Nocerino. I really think that can work for us, with the only downside being that DP would have to be utilised more on the wing.