Controversy Thread part 2: Religious discussion (7 Viewers)

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by Rickenbacker2 ] ++

In my religion, that would be considered idol worship.

As he clearly stated, it's not the cross itself that christians worship, it's what the crucifix symbolises: that Christ bore the punishment for our sins, and he died in our place. The cross merely serves as a reminder. We don't say "thank you Cross, that you forgive us sins", but rather "thank you Jesus, for dying on the cross in my place".

It's like the Bible: the book itself isn't holy, it's just paper and ink. But what it stands for, that's what the Word of God is. The Bible in paper and ink form is no holier than the words coming out of the mouth of someone who has memorised them, and the Bible printed on toilet paper is no less Holy than printed in golden ink

Even if you bow before the symbol of a cross, God knows your heart, and if you bow before the cross because simply because it represents and reminds you of, the ultimate sacrifice that Christ made for us, then that is worshipping God.

It's like looking at a photo of a loved one. There's nothing special about the paper or the ink, but since it represents and reminds you of a loved one, the photo can make you smile or cry.

 

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[Ian]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++
As he clearly stated, it's not the cross itself that christians worship, it's what the crucifix symbolises: that Christ bore the punishment for our sins, and he died in our place. The cross merely serves as a reminder. We don't say "thank you Cross, that you forgive us sins", but rather "thank you Jesus, for dying on the cross in my place".

It's like the Bible: the book itself isn't holy, it's just paper and ink. But what it stands for, that's what the Word of God is. The Bible in paper and ink form is no holier than the words coming out of the mouth of someone who has memorised them, and the Bible printed on toilet paper is no less Holy than printed in golden ink

Even if you bow before the symbol of a cross, God knows your heart, and if you bow before the cross because simply because it represents and reminds you of, the ultimate sacrifice that Christ made for us, then that is worshipping God.

It's like looking at a photo of a loved one. There's nothing special about the paper or the ink, but since it represents and reminds you of a loved one, the photo can make you smile or cry.

Don't misunderstand me gray. I was raised catholic in catholic schools. I'm fully aware of their doctrine and their dogma, but I have rejected it and taken up a faith that recognizes such falsities for what they are. I am a Christian just like you, but I believe that the word of god is above the word of the church, especially the Roman Catholic church.

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by Rickenbacker2 ] ++

Don't misunderstand me gray. I was raised catholic in catholic schools. I'm fully aware of their doctrine and their dogma, but I have rejected it and taken up a faith that recognizes such falsities for what they are. I am a Christian just like you, but I believe that the word of god is above the word of the church, especially the Roman Catholic church.

When did I mention church? I didn't say anything about what the church says, and personally I don't think the church has any kind of authority. The only reason I go to a church is to worship with fellow believers and to learn more about my Lord and Saviour.

20 "For where two or three gather together because they are mine, I am there among them."

I don't go to church to hear about the church's authority. In fact, the words that we use to describe our leaders are pastor and minister.

Pastor literally means a shepherd - they are merely those who keep the flock together and keep them from harm

A minister's role by definition is to serve. The pastors of my church never say "Do you know who i am!? I'm a MINISTER. God chose ME, so you have to listen to ME!". Definitely not, the thing I'd hear my pastor saying more often is "if you need help with anything, give me a shout". My pastor hates titles, he always says how he 's annoyed how the leaders in churches in Korea think want respect (it's more of an asian society thing which I don't like either) and to be called "Deacon" or "Elder". He makes us just call him Eddie

I'm protestant btw.

 

[Wings]

Gray I think there is a point that I would like to raise here. It feels like you are trying to personalise religion to fit your whims (No offense) - I tend to think that a religion has its fundamentals which govern the believers and not the other way. As for human beings love for titles etc I agree with your point. It also happens that some religious leader (Pastor, Imam etc) hijack the religion and contaminate it to suit their deviated means. It is upon an objective person to raise above that. The thing that makes this complicated is that there are a multitude of different personalities who react differently to the same situation hence a need for a religion to standardise it's doctrine.

 

[Martin]

++ [ originally posted by DaJuve ] ++
Gray I think there is a point that I would like to raise here. It feels like you are trying to personalise religion to fit your whims (No offense) - I tend to think that a religion has its fundamentals which govern the believers and not the other way.

Bingo. This is exactly how I think a lot of poeple get the wrong idea about religion. Religion was created by man, for man, not the other way around. I know a lot of people have said that they reject Catholicism for instance, because they disapprove of the discipline, authority and similar. Which I personally think is completely misunderstanding the point. I mean sure certain influential people in the church want influence but they do not decide what religion is to the individual, the person should decide that for themselves.

In Norway, the Catholic church barely has any footing, there are a handful of communities scattered around the country, and since there is a state church here, it's mostly funded by a Catholic organization in Germany, both the bishops in Oslo and Trondheim are German, for instance. Maybe it's a German thing, but going to church here you don't get that "we tell you what to do" thing, which seems to be well known to anyone Polish. And this evolution of style I find to be very positive, it's all about being conscious and making the right choice, as opposed to hearing how you're a sinner. And young priests adopt a similar approach to what gray described, it's about coming together for a mutual cause and about sharing that. The older guys maybe not as much but we did play soccer with the bishop during religion class one time years ago.

So to conclude, a lot of people reject Catholicism due to the high degree of conservatism and politics (maybe not the right term) which I think is a shame because I know it doesn't have to be like that.

 

[BloodOnMoral]

Great opinion, Martin, it was a pleasure to read it. That is exactly why I am against going to church and all those thing made for your soul's saving. You know, that it is told that a part of the Holy Bible is still hidded somewhere near the Red Sea, and that part could talk about some things which the Christian priests don't want the people to find out.

 

[nedved34]

what the fck is goin on with this forums.i write some shit for minutes then nobody replies it or maybe read it.is it personal or i feel it like that.what the fck???

 

[Zlatan]

Dont worry snoop, its not you. It happens to the rest of us too

Or does it happen just to me???

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by DaJuve ] ++
Gray I think there is a point that I would like to raise here. It feels like you are trying to personalise religion to fit your whims (No offense) - I tend to think that a religion has its fundamentals which govern the believers and not the other way.

no offense taken ... but I'm not quite sure what u mean by that... how am i personalising it? I'm glad that I can 'personalise it' to a certain extent, because as I've said before, I don't like the whole religion thing, with its traditions and rituals... the thing I'm more concerned about is my personal relationship with Christ.

++ [ originally posted by BloodOnMoral ] ++
Great opinion, Martin, it was a pleasure to read it. That is exactly why I am against going to church and all those thing made for your soul's saving. You know, that it is told that a part of the Holy Bible is still hidded somewhere near the Red Sea, and that part could talk about some things which the Christian priests don't want the people to find out.

Hmm interesting~ could u plz tell me more about this? cos i've never heard it before..

 

[BloodOnMoral]

I'll try to have a better documentation and then tell you more, I have to ask a teacher about that. Basically, it seems that those Bible parts are speaking about souls transmigrations and other similar stuff.

Now check those PM

 

[JuveCampione]

btw speaking about religion..
Gray change your avatar

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by Edgar Davids ] ++
btw speaking about religion..
Gray change your avatar

Seriously? why?

 

[JuveCampione]

becuase I don't like it and you had it for a lot of time.
put something nice instead, maybe juve :cheesy:

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by Edgar Davids ] ++
becuase I don't like it and you had it for a lot of time.
put something nice instead, maybe juve :cheesy:

what do you mean something nice instead :fero::fero::fero:
I think i'll keep it actually Besides, everyone's got Juve~

 

[JuveCampione]

no that's not true.

 

[Dragon]

its like that movie stigmata that they found something for the bible written by Christ himself and the church didnt want to release it because He was against of some of the stuff that is being/was done by the modern church

 

[Ian]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++
When did I mention church? I didn't say anything about what the church says, and personally I don't think the church has any kind of authority. The only reason I go to a church is to worship with fellow believers and to learn more about my Lord and Saviour.

20 "For where two or three gather together because they are mine, I am there among them."

I don't go to church to hear about the church's authority. In fact, the words that we use to describe our leaders are pastor and minister.

Pastor literally means a shepherd - they are merely those who keep the flock together and keep them from harm

A minister's role by definition is to serve. The pastors of my church never say "Do you know who i am!? I'm a MINISTER. God chose ME, so you have to listen to ME!". Definitely not, the thing I'd hear my pastor saying more often is "if you need help with anything, give me a shout". My pastor hates titles, he always says how he 's annoyed how the leaders in churches in Korea think want respect (it's more of an asian society thing which I don't like either) and to be called "Deacon" or "Elder". He makes us just call him Eddie

I'm protestant btw.

You have misunderstood me. I'm saying that the cross you wear around your neck is an idol, and any church that would tell you otherwise is misleading you. Whether that be your "protestant" church or any other.

 

[Tom]

haven't read through the thread but does anyone else consider themselves completely unreligious?

 

[Zlatan]

Me

 

[Ian]

++ [ originally posted by Paolo_Montero ] ++
haven't read through the thread but does anyone else consider themselves completely unreligious?

What do you mean by "unreligious'?