Co-owned & Loaned Players 2007/2008 (12 Viewers)
- Thread starter ReBeL
- Start date
Okay then.
How many 21 year olds are there playing regularly for a top side in Italy? Like I said, Criscito just lacks the physique to play at the top level.
Your argument would be fine if Criscito was 25 rather than 21 but he hasn't even reached normal peak age, so speaking about him being a late bloomer is irrelevant.
despite the 3 or 4 times where he has made it expicably clear that he doesnt want to return, he signed a contract with out lasting untill the end of 2012 so we can do whatever the fuck we want with him
Don't get me wrong , Im not writing off Criscito's entire future , that's ridiculous , I'm just writing him off for now . So far , he hasn't proven anything and thus should not be given a starting place. I'm not talking about 6 , 7 or 10 years from now , that's a different story . I'm talking about now .
You mentioned big teams not haveing Italy U21's , we all know Inter and Milan's take on that , the former won't buy someone unless he can dance the tango and the latter won't buy someone unless they are either great samba dancers , or have beautiful little grandsons .
Another thing , I don't want to be harsh on the guy but the truth is , it's a harsh world out there . He had a chance , regardless of his age , to at least demonstrate he was worthy of playing with Juve , he kind of wasted it . Now the difference between Chiellini and him , is Chiellini took his chance to play with Juve by putting out convincing performances , while Criscito only showed slight potential which probably isn't enough .
I don't care how old a player is , I don't care if he's 18 . if you get subbed after the first half that means you aren't very good . I don't think I've ever seen a CB subbed half time unless he was injured or it was as result of tactical changes by the coach . I can't predict how good he will be when he's 25 , and frankly I don't care . He might be the best in the world then but he is unable to give us anything now .
On another note , the guy loves Genoa , his heart isn't at Juve . That might explain why he hasn't played with much heart when he was at Juve .
You mentioned big teams not haveing Italy U21's , we all know Inter and Milan's take on that , the former won't buy someone unless he can dance the tango and the latter won't buy someone unless they are either great samba dancers , or have beautiful little grandsons .
Another thing , I don't want to be harsh on the guy but the truth is , it's a harsh world out there . He had a chance , regardless of his age , to at least demonstrate he was worthy of playing with Juve , he kind of wasted it . Now the difference between Chiellini and him , is Chiellini took his chance to play with Juve by putting out convincing performances , while Criscito only showed slight potential which probably isn't enough .
I don't care how old a player is , I don't care if he's 18 . if you get subbed after the first half that means you aren't very good . I don't think I've ever seen a CB subbed half time unless he was injured or it was as result of tactical changes by the coach . I can't predict how good he will be when he's 25 , and frankly I don't care . He might be the best in the world then but he is unable to give us anything now .
On another note , the guy loves Genoa , his heart isn't at Juve . That might explain why he hasn't played with much heart when he was at Juve .
we should not abandon our young players easily.
Chiellini ‘rejects’ Juventus switch
Monday 6 June, 2005
"It is my desire to stay here," he told Fiorentina.it. "I’ll ask the club to find a way to keep me. Everything should be sorted out by the end of the month.
Chiellini wants Roma - Friday 7 October, 2005
“I really can’t stand for the fact we’ve played eight games between Serie A and the Champions League, yet I haven’t played a single minute of football with a Juve jersey,” slammed the defender.
Chiellini considers future 10,10 2005
"If I realise in the next three months that there isn't space for me at Juve, I'd ask to leave," said Chiellini.
Chiellini ‘rejects’ Juventus switch
Monday 6 June, 2005
"It is my desire to stay here," he told Fiorentina.it. "I’ll ask the club to find a way to keep me. Everything should be sorted out by the end of the month.
Chiellini wants Roma - Friday 7 October, 2005
“I really can’t stand for the fact we’ve played eight games between Serie A and the Champions League, yet I haven’t played a single minute of football with a Juve jersey,” slammed the defender.
Chiellini considers future 10,10 2005
"If I realise in the next three months that there isn't space for me at Juve, I'd ask to leave," said Chiellini.
Yeah Turk is right.Everyone wants to play, and the same goes to Criscito.
He was owned against Totti, so what?One world champion against an 20 years old inexperienced defender.
You can tell me that Chiellini was superb against Ibra both times he faced him, but Giorgio is a phenomenom.I don't expect the same from Mimmo but he can be a good player in 1-2 years.
There is a difference between lack of experience and lack of quality.
And we dont lose anything if we keep him for 1 year more and see if he has some quality
He was owned against Totti, so what?One world champion against an 20 years old inexperienced defender.
You can tell me that Chiellini was superb against Ibra both times he faced him, but Giorgio is a phenomenom.I don't expect the same from Mimmo but he can be a good player in 1-2 years.
There is a difference between lack of experience and lack of quality.
And we dont lose anything if we keep him for 1 year more and see if he has some quality
Well, Mimmo is suposed to be a talent.
And IMO you can not expect from a talent to be superb immediatly(except for some very unique players)
It won't be a surprise to me if next year Seba will be average and won't perform as well as we all expect.
The team has to be patient and give them chances, something that did not happen with Criscito
And IMO you can not expect from a talent to be superb immediatly(except for some very unique players)
It won't be a surprise to me if next year Seba will be average and won't perform as well as we all expect.
The team has to be patient and give them chances, something that did not happen with Criscito
Not many ppl are as patient as me
As for Criscito, he needs to get his head sorted out right. He has the potential to do well, but all he is lacking is confidence and stature. We should give him another try at Genoa and see how things turn out, after it is never easy to be a defender at Serie A.
As for Giovinco, De Ceglie and Marchisio, I suggest giving them some slack.
Giovinco has already get his mentality right. I'm certain he will reproduce his form at Empoli for Juventus. He is still young and can learn new things here and there before moving to play at top flight.
I can't wait to see Giovinco, De Ceglie and Marchisio play for Juve next season
As for Criscito, he needs to get his head sorted out right. He has the potential to do well, but all he is lacking is confidence and stature. We should give him another try at Genoa and see how things turn out, after it is never easy to be a defender at Serie A.
As for Giovinco, De Ceglie and Marchisio, I suggest giving them some slack.
Giovinco has already get his mentality right. I'm certain he will reproduce his form at Empoli for Juventus. He is still young and can learn new things here and there before moving to play at top flight.
I can't wait to see Giovinco, De Ceglie and Marchisio play for Juve next season
It's very sad if you think how many youngsters we have wasted!
It's crazy!!
Guys with signs of potential are lost, and that's really shame.
Lanzanfame will go somewhere loaned and forgotten, Paolucci hardly plays in Atalanta, Mirante cleans the bench of Sampdoria, we are ready to sell Palladino and Marchisio's return is not sure.Add to them Criscito who didn't take a proper chance with us.Anyone remembers this Massiello guy who played against Inter in 2005?He was solid as I know.
And Chiumento?
I hope that this will change...
It's crazy!!
Guys with signs of potential are lost, and that's really shame.
Lanzanfame will go somewhere loaned and forgotten, Paolucci hardly plays in Atalanta, Mirante cleans the bench of Sampdoria, we are ready to sell Palladino and Marchisio's return is not sure.Add to them Criscito who didn't take a proper chance with us.Anyone remembers this Massiello guy who played against Inter in 2005?He was solid as I know.
And Chiumento?
I hope that this will change...
This will change when people like you stop doing erronous math like Juve+young player = Great talent.
You do know crap or average players were young once too right? Of the players you mentionned, its like you take for granted they are wasted or are top talents, instead of gauge wether or not they are good enough for this level. They are mostly in that sitaution because they show crap, prove nothing, or prove they arent good enough, or hasnt the chance to prove themselves yet (but fanboys still act like they have proven everything). What needs to change is the skewed expectations and reality warp that occures when whenever a youngster emerges from Juve. A disease called insane hype, but atleast it usually means good players are hyped to be great, but in this case, or examples of your post, its mainly good for nothing players hyped to being special out of nowhere.
Lanzafame wont be forgotten if he shows he is good and someone to remember. You know, like SEE if he is special before deeming him so...And Paolucci is 22, and there might be a reason why he doesnt play in Atalanta, and didnt at Udinese, he needs to rise to the challenge and prove himself. Mirante is a decent keeper, but there is a safer choice ahead of him. Palladino is a good talent, but hasnt shown he is Juve quality in anyway except for bench material, should be loaned out, but mainly he might be ready to be sold because he isnt good enough now. Marchiso deserves a shot with Juve based on what he showed, but the rest is up to him in wether or not he is a player for our future. Criscito is not good enough now, its beside the point what he will be in the future, he is nowhere near NOW.
Masiello and Chiumento are below average players as they have showed, so let the bizzare expectations and hype die down already, understand the fresh excitement of new players, but people should be excited when they show they are something special (IMO as Giovinco and Marchiso has, and to lesser degrees maybe De Ceglie and palla too), like put some frigging responbility on the players to show themselves before going gaga. Instead of go with the bizzare math of Juve+young player = Instant future great player.
I mean I understand when its cases like Giovinco, he is one insane talent and one of the best in the world easily, but stop acting like every player who goes through our youth program is something special as Giovinco and shouldnt be wasted. You know, players like Rocchi and Manfredini were our youth players, do you miss their presence too?
You do know crap or average players were young once too right? Of the players you mentionned, its like you take for granted they are wasted or are top talents, instead of gauge wether or not they are good enough for this level. They are mostly in that sitaution because they show crap, prove nothing, or prove they arent good enough, or hasnt the chance to prove themselves yet (but fanboys still act like they have proven everything). What needs to change is the skewed expectations and reality warp that occures when whenever a youngster emerges from Juve. A disease called insane hype, but atleast it usually means good players are hyped to be great, but in this case, or examples of your post, its mainly good for nothing players hyped to being special out of nowhere.
Lanzafame wont be forgotten if he shows he is good and someone to remember. You know, like SEE if he is special before deeming him so...And Paolucci is 22, and there might be a reason why he doesnt play in Atalanta, and didnt at Udinese, he needs to rise to the challenge and prove himself. Mirante is a decent keeper, but there is a safer choice ahead of him. Palladino is a good talent, but hasnt shown he is Juve quality in anyway except for bench material, should be loaned out, but mainly he might be ready to be sold because he isnt good enough now. Marchiso deserves a shot with Juve based on what he showed, but the rest is up to him in wether or not he is a player for our future. Criscito is not good enough now, its beside the point what he will be in the future, he is nowhere near NOW.
Masiello and Chiumento are below average players as they have showed, so let the bizzare expectations and hype die down already, understand the fresh excitement of new players, but people should be excited when they show they are something special (IMO as Giovinco and Marchiso has, and to lesser degrees maybe De Ceglie and palla too), like put some frigging responbility on the players to show themselves before going gaga. Instead of go with the bizzare math of Juve+young player = Instant future great player.
I mean I understand when its cases like Giovinco, he is one insane talent and one of the best in the world easily, but stop acting like every player who goes through our youth program is something special as Giovinco and shouldnt be wasted. You know, players like Rocchi and Manfredini were our youth players, do you miss their presence too?
I don't take for granted that they are all great talents.
Maybe you take for granted that they are crap.
I could mention many other players If i thought that "Juve+young player = Great talent."
Do you think that Chiellini would shine in a team like Livorno or Atalanta?
IMO he would be nowhere near his current level...
Lanzanfame won't be forgotten?If we keep loaning him every season in mid tabled teams he will be forgotten!
Mirante is a decent keeper as you say, and he could be our 2nd Gk.I'm sure he would prefer to be Gigi's sub than Castelazzi's.
Palladino hasn't shown he is Juve quality I agree.But how the hell could he show that if he doesn't play in the right position?That's insane, What do you expect from him?
Criscito is not ready YET, but maybe he will be in 1-2 years.None knows if he will, but as it seems we plan to sell him from now, after only some matches with Juve.Is that something you call a chance for a youngster?
As for Massiello, he showed good signs, and even Capello told that.How could he shine in a mid-tabled team?
I don't say that these players are all the super talents, but some of them COULD BE very good.
And don't compare them with Giovinco.Seba is not only a talent, he is a phenomenon.
I can not belive that every player who shines with oure primavera is crap when it comes to play with the first team...
If we dont keep loaning Lanzafame out (this is his first loaning out btw), what is your suggestion? Have him in Juve as 6th striker and never play? Its better if he plays elsewhere AND prove that he is Juve quality. Has he done that in your opinion? He is a Serie B player so far in his career, a new proffessional player who just started his career. What else there is to do then loan him out til he shows what he is made of?
You are quite funny about Chiellini because he is a Livorno youth product, and he "shined" there enough for the biggiest club in Italy to get him. And no, he wouldnt shine in Atalanta at all...He just wasnt great for Fiorentina, and was the reason he was trusted by Juve since then.
Palladino, you admitted yourself he isnt Juve quality now. But you say its because he isnt played in the right position. You know who we have in his position right? 3 players who are clearly superior to him? He cant bench them for even a second head to head, only get a chance when they are injured or rested. So no, he isnt good enough for us in his real position, because we have considerably better players there.
If Criscito isnt good enough now, why not sell him? Yeah maybe one should wait and loan him out more, but why does he deserve more chance? You said it youself, he doesnt show he is Juve quality. I thought we were harsh on him too, but simple fact is he doesnt hack it in this level. Thats the only thing we can judge him on, top football is stiff competition and he doesnt show in Genoa is someone to bank on. You know, like Chiellini showed he is someone to bank on, but Criscito isnt impressing in anyway. On the contrary, in games like Inter and other games, seen him be toyed with easily. Has nice qualities, but just doesnt hack it so far. His future is unsure, so selling him isnt unthinkable.
And give up with Masiello, he was ok in couple of subs for us, and there was some typical enthiusiastic words for a youth player, but he is nothing more then average at best, even below that because he is benched by average players in small teams, fringe player in little teams, yes screams Juve quality. Btw why wouldnt he shine in a smaller club? You know, its EASIER to shine in smaller clubs right? Most talented players make their mark in smaller clubs. You make it sound like its tougher in smaller clubs then big clubs...
P.S Mirante is in a position where its 100% we dont need anyone, even back up. When he is at that age, its better to make his career elsewhere, young keepers shouldnt be on eternal bench for a top team, playing 4 games a season. He should play in smaller teams, other then Samp in which he isnt good enough for quite apparently.
You are quite funny about Chiellini because he is a Livorno youth product, and he "shined" there enough for the biggiest club in Italy to get him. And no, he wouldnt shine in Atalanta at all...He just wasnt great for Fiorentina, and was the reason he was trusted by Juve since then.
Palladino, you admitted yourself he isnt Juve quality now. But you say its because he isnt played in the right position. You know who we have in his position right? 3 players who are clearly superior to him? He cant bench them for even a second head to head, only get a chance when they are injured or rested. So no, he isnt good enough for us in his real position, because we have considerably better players there.
If Criscito isnt good enough now, why not sell him? Yeah maybe one should wait and loan him out more, but why does he deserve more chance? You said it youself, he doesnt show he is Juve quality. I thought we were harsh on him too, but simple fact is he doesnt hack it in this level. Thats the only thing we can judge him on, top football is stiff competition and he doesnt show in Genoa is someone to bank on. You know, like Chiellini showed he is someone to bank on, but Criscito isnt impressing in anyway. On the contrary, in games like Inter and other games, seen him be toyed with easily. Has nice qualities, but just doesnt hack it so far. His future is unsure, so selling him isnt unthinkable.
And give up with Masiello, he was ok in couple of subs for us, and there was some typical enthiusiastic words for a youth player, but he is nothing more then average at best, even below that because he is benched by average players in small teams, fringe player in little teams, yes screams Juve quality. Btw why wouldnt he shine in a smaller club? You know, its EASIER to shine in smaller clubs right? Most talented players make their mark in smaller clubs. You make it sound like its tougher in smaller clubs then big clubs...
P.S Mirante is in a position where its 100% we dont need anyone, even back up. When he is at that age, its better to make his career elsewhere, young keepers shouldnt be on eternal bench for a top team, playing 4 games a season. He should play in smaller teams, other then Samp in which he isnt good enough for quite apparently.
I simply don't see him coming back.
If it wasn't calciopoli and we still had Cannavaro, Thuram and other top defenders that Moggi would have buy do you think that Chiellini would be still at Juve?Come on, we would have sent him on loan, and if he was with us he would be a 3rd choice left back.
I agree that there is no comparison between Palla and the 3 other strikers we have.But he could have taken some chances in the coppa matches.He played only against empoli.And now, if we win against Atalanta(and have the CL spot for sure)
I would like to see him as an attacker in some of the next matches so I can judge him better.
Chiellini was not good enough in his first season in Juve too.After that our top defenders left and we had not other choise than to keep him.Look him now.
And we spent much money for Mimmo.I don't think that anyone would buy him for so much money.
It's easier to shine in smaller clubs???
Like Barzagli uh?He is very good with the NT and average with Palermo.
And ok, maybe I'm wrong for Massiello.It was an example based on some ok parformances...
We don't need anyone even back up because our GK subs are great eh??
If he was a starter with sampdoria it would be ok, but what's the difference between being a sun in Samp and being a sub in Juve?
I've heared that Pasquato and Simone Esposito are good players for their age.
TBH I have never seen them playing so I don't have an opinion.
If we win against Atalanta, in the next games Ranieri can have one of those 2 on the bench so they can play some minutes.
They could play even in the coppa....
If it wasn't calciopoli and we still had Cannavaro, Thuram and other top defenders that Moggi would have buy do you think that Chiellini would be still at Juve?Come on, we would have sent him on loan, and if he was with us he would be a 3rd choice left back.
I agree that there is no comparison between Palla and the 3 other strikers we have.But he could have taken some chances in the coppa matches.He played only against empoli.And now, if we win against Atalanta(and have the CL spot for sure)
I would like to see him as an attacker in some of the next matches so I can judge him better.
Chiellini was not good enough in his first season in Juve too.After that our top defenders left and we had not other choise than to keep him.Look him now.
And we spent much money for Mimmo.I don't think that anyone would buy him for so much money.
It's easier to shine in smaller clubs???
Like Barzagli uh?He is very good with the NT and average with Palermo.
And ok, maybe I'm wrong for Massiello.It was an example based on some ok parformances...
We don't need anyone even back up because our GK subs are great eh??
If he was a starter with sampdoria it would be ok, but what's the difference between being a sun in Samp and being a sub in Juve?
I've heared that Pasquato and Simone Esposito are good players for their age.
TBH I have never seen them playing so I don't have an opinion.
If we win against Atalanta, in the next games Ranieri can have one of those 2 on the bench so they can play some minutes.
They could play even in the coppa....