Fuck off you cuntm if you do not have anything reasonable to say shut the hell up, you sub-being.
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Claudio Ranieri (52 Viewers)
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Like i already said, you could have used other examples in your initial post that serie A is not at a very high level, but you didn't. I simply replied to your post and i disagreed with your points there.
I never said that serie A is super strong or stronger than the EPL and La Liga.
But i do disagree with you that this is the weakest serie A in years. Honestly, you're the only serie A follower i know who thinks that way. Everyone who follows serie A week in week out, acknowledges that this is the strongest serie A after calciopoli. I'm also part of "everyone" and i'm convinced that serie A is better and more competetive this year, compared to 06/07 and 07/08 seasons.
I never said that serie A is super strong or stronger than the EPL and La Liga.
But i do disagree with you that this is the weakest serie A in years. Honestly, you're the only serie A follower i know who thinks that way. Everyone who follows serie A week in week out, acknowledges that this is the strongest serie A after calciopoli. I'm also part of "everyone" and i'm convinced that serie A is better and more competetive this year, compared to 06/07 and 07/08 seasons.
I have said it before that I do not enjoy being called superior being and how many times have you tried to provoke not just me but most ppl on here that you want me to be severely reprimanded for insulting you when you continusly ask for it.
Anyways back to the discussion, seriea being competitive than it was 2 years ago and last year is not saying much as it was awful for 2 years.
I do not think that EPL is a great league either with 8 teams capable of being relegated but EPl lovers can point to how many of their teams left in CL with all capable of winning it and City going well in UEFa cup.
For SerieA to be competitive in my view, we need a better quality Juventus with a better manager, a far more competitive Milan and Roma.
Genoa is the only team to have impressed me this season with Fiorentina, Sampdoria, Palermo, Lazio and Udinese been maddeningly inconsistent.
Inter are a good side but not an outsanding 1, I know it is just conjecture but I think they would suffer in La Liga and Epl with them no way dominating those leagues as they have done SerieA.
Anyways back to the discussion, seriea being competitive than it was 2 years ago and last year is not saying much as it was awful for 2 years.
I do not think that EPL is a great league either with 8 teams capable of being relegated but EPl lovers can point to how many of their teams left in CL with all capable of winning it and City going well in UEFa cup.
For SerieA to be competitive in my view, we need a better quality Juventus with a better manager, a far more competitive Milan and Roma.
Genoa is the only team to have impressed me this season with Fiorentina, Sampdoria, Palermo, Lazio and Udinese been maddeningly inconsistent.
Inter are a good side but not an outsanding 1, I know it is just conjecture but I think they would suffer in La Liga and Epl with them no way dominating those leagues as they have done SerieA.
Are you sure about that? Unless, you mean that Poulsen has what it takes to become world class and cancel the need for a better midfielder, in our future supposedly competitive team. I dont really think that you agree either with the priority of transfer per se, not the player.
I dont have anything personal with Poulsen. And since he is now our player, i wish him all the best!
BUT, he was a tactical and a strategical mistake, which is absolutely NOT his fault.
I only use him as an example to demonstrate the lack of vision from our board members. I did that from the beginning, because i knew that they will follow the pattern of the past 3 years.
Its up to our managers to make the right choices and respect our priorities.
We should not expect miracles from the cheap/free players we buy...or blame them for anything. So i dont blame the players, i dont encourage others to do so.
That was not intended to be an attack against Poulsen.
The timing of his signing was very very bad.
If we had no need for starters and only lacked a sub midfielder, Poulsen would have been a fine choice and i would welcome him. But not when he comes in expense of another player we need more
and not we knew from the start that the impact of this transfer would be minimal,
in the long run too. We sacrificed money and a slot within our team, for practically no reason. Considering, our tactical needs and his maximum potential.
Even if we chose that Poulsen, would fulfill our primary CM-DM subber role within our team, we should offload one of Zanetti, Almiron, Tiago first. Offloading just one of them, would make, (even partially), some sense.
There is absolutely no sense on gathering a collection of players, for practically the same place (Sissoko's partner and pls dont come with the the depth excuse, you know why). Bringing more midfielders and forwards, only to fine tune our subs, whilst our starter material in defense is struggling to cope, is a persistent mistake. Lets see, if we will keep the sacred tradition or not this season...
I ve already called it 2-3 times and we keep repeating it...
I would be glad to see that we sacrificed that for smth that would bring is a solid advantage in the long run, but unfortunately that was not the case.
As expected if i may add, i will not accept the same excuses again...
I dont have anything personal with Poulsen. And since he is now our player, i wish him all the best!
BUT, he was a tactical and a strategical mistake, which is absolutely NOT his fault.
I only use him as an example to demonstrate the lack of vision from our board members. I did that from the beginning, because i knew that they will follow the pattern of the past 3 years.
Its up to our managers to make the right choices and respect our priorities.
We should not expect miracles from the cheap/free players we buy...or blame them for anything. So i dont blame the players, i dont encourage others to do so.
That was not intended to be an attack against Poulsen.
The timing of his signing was very very bad.
If we had no need for starters and only lacked a sub midfielder, Poulsen would have been a fine choice and i would welcome him. But not when he comes in expense of another player we need more
and not we knew from the start that the impact of this transfer would be minimal,
in the long run too. We sacrificed money and a slot within our team, for practically no reason. Considering, our tactical needs and his maximum potential.
Even if we chose that Poulsen, would fulfill our primary CM-DM subber role within our team, we should offload one of Zanetti, Almiron, Tiago first. Offloading just one of them, would make, (even partially), some sense.
There is absolutely no sense on gathering a collection of players, for practically the same place (Sissoko's partner and pls dont come with the the depth excuse, you know why). Bringing more midfielders and forwards, only to fine tune our subs, whilst our starter material in defense is struggling to cope, is a persistent mistake. Lets see, if we will keep the sacred tradition or not this season...
I ve already called it 2-3 times and we keep repeating it...
I would be glad to see that we sacrificed that for smth that would bring is a solid advantage in the long run, but unfortunately that was not the case.
As expected if i may add, i will not accept the same excuses again...
No, you misunderstood me. I'm agreeing with you that Poulsen's transfer wasn't a very good one, or at least not a very logical one.
Poulsen is a player every single team would like to have in the squad, but not many great teams would like to have him as the creative spark of the midfield. He is a very good and grateful player whose price (9-10m) was a realistic one, but what we needed more was a CM who was twice as good, and realistically should have been twice as expensive. Where Barca has Xavi, Chelsea has Lampard, Manchester has Scholes, Liverpool has Xabi/Gerrard, we have Poulsen.
If we already had a player like the ones mentioned above, Poulsen's transfer would have been a very good one. But Poulsen to be that player...no.
I might have misunderstood you because i thought you're undervaluing Poulsen's quality and you were saying that he's not a good player. I guess what you wanted to say is that he's not a world class CM, and you were saying that a world class CM was what we needed.
That's why i said that Poulsen is actually a very good player.
Well, of course. I can't argue with logic :smile:
4 CMs with someone like Ekdal being the 5th CM who'll play only if 3 of the CMs are injured/suspended, is more than enough.
For these 4 positions we have Zanetti, Sissoko, Tiago, Almiron, Poulsen and Marchisio. That's 2 CMs too much, especially if we know that 5 of them have very high salaries. We loaned out Almiron and we tried to sell Tiago, so i'm guessing that we did plan to have 4 CMs.
Now this summer we'll need to get rid of at least two of them. Sissoko, Marchisio and Poulsen will be my choices to stay. As for the 4th one, it will be ideal if we finally get that class we need in CM. If that happens then it should be goodbye time for Zanetti (quality, love him, but already a veteran and he spent this whole season injured), Tiago and Almiron.
Poulsen is a player every single team would like to have in the squad, but not many great teams would like to have him as the creative spark of the midfield. He is a very good and grateful player whose price (9-10m) was a realistic one, but what we needed more was a CM who was twice as good, and realistically should have been twice as expensive. Where Barca has Xavi, Chelsea has Lampard, Manchester has Scholes, Liverpool has Xabi/Gerrard, we have Poulsen.
If we already had a player like the ones mentioned above, Poulsen's transfer would have been a very good one. But Poulsen to be that player...no.
I might have misunderstood you because i thought you're undervaluing Poulsen's quality and you were saying that he's not a good player. I guess what you wanted to say is that he's not a world class CM, and you were saying that a world class CM was what we needed.
That's why i said that Poulsen is actually a very good player.
Well, of course. I can't argue with logic :smile:
4 CMs with someone like Ekdal being the 5th CM who'll play only if 3 of the CMs are injured/suspended, is more than enough.
For these 4 positions we have Zanetti, Sissoko, Tiago, Almiron, Poulsen and Marchisio. That's 2 CMs too much, especially if we know that 5 of them have very high salaries. We loaned out Almiron and we tried to sell Tiago, so i'm guessing that we did plan to have 4 CMs.
Now this summer we'll need to get rid of at least two of them. Sissoko, Marchisio and Poulsen will be my choices to stay. As for the 4th one, it will be ideal if we finally get that class we need in CM. If that happens then it should be goodbye time for Zanetti (quality, love him, but already a veteran and he spent this whole season injured), Tiago and Almiron.
I agree with this statement to a certain extent.
Serie A was stronger 3 years ago. The strength was distributed between the teams. Thats why Inter could not win shit. They had a strong squad but so did others like Juventus, Milan, Roma and to a lesser extent Fiorentina and Lazio. The only way Inter could win anything is to distroy all teams involved especially Juventus.
During the summer of the Calciopli, Juventus, Milan, Roma, Lazio and Fiorentina could not buy any players. They could only sell. Inter was the only big team capable of buying players.
Due to the financial penalties put on these teams especially us, they needed to sell players so the teams got weaker. Let alone not having enough cash to buy quality players.
So now you have one freaking strong squad in Inter and above average squad in the rest of the top teams.
The sad part for Inter, is even though they have the strongest squad by a few miles they still wait for "ref mistakes" to collect their points.
Serie A was stronger 3 years ago. The strength was distributed between the teams. Thats why Inter could not win shit. They had a strong squad but so did others like Juventus, Milan, Roma and to a lesser extent Fiorentina and Lazio. The only way Inter could win anything is to distroy all teams involved especially Juventus.
During the summer of the Calciopli, Juventus, Milan, Roma, Lazio and Fiorentina could not buy any players. They could only sell. Inter was the only big team capable of buying players.
Due to the financial penalties put on these teams especially us, they needed to sell players so the teams got weaker. Let alone not having enough cash to buy quality players.
So now you have one freaking strong squad in Inter and above average squad in the rest of the top teams.
The sad part for Inter, is even though they have the strongest squad by a few miles they still wait for "ref mistakes" to collect their points.
I strongly disagree with this. Milan is the only team that was stronger in Capello's days than it is now. All the other serie A teams are either at the same level or are now stronger than they were back then (not counting Juve, obviously).
Roma were awful back then. They finished 8th and 5th respectively and they were a joke in Europe. Fiorentina are at the same level and they're doing equally well. But back then Udinese and Chievo were ending high in the standings and ended up playing in CL. Teams like Messina, Livorno and Empoli, full with a bunch of nobodies in the team, were playing in UEFA Cup.
Just check the names of the players who played for the serie A teams back then and you'll see that all the quality was in the best 3 or best 4 teams. The minor teams didn't have players like Milito, Lavezzi, Hamsik, Cassano etc and overall they were all weaker than they are today.
The serie A was super strong in the 1990's and before 2003-2004. But at the time Capello took over Juve, the league was very weak and only Milan and Juve (mostly Milan's great results in CL) made it look to the outsiders that serie A was strong.
Roma were awful back then. They finished 8th and 5th respectively and they were a joke in Europe. Fiorentina are at the same level and they're doing equally well. But back then Udinese and Chievo were ending high in the standings and ended up playing in CL. Teams like Messina, Livorno and Empoli, full with a bunch of nobodies in the team, were playing in UEFA Cup.
Just check the names of the players who played for the serie A teams back then and you'll see that all the quality was in the best 3 or best 4 teams. The minor teams didn't have players like Milito, Lavezzi, Hamsik, Cassano etc and overall they were all weaker than they are today.
The serie A was super strong in the 1990's and before 2003-2004. But at the time Capello took over Juve, the league was very weak and only Milan and Juve (mostly Milan's great results in CL) made it look to the outsiders that serie A was strong.
No he is not the only one, Serie A's quality, is one of the weakest in the past years.. There is only one good (good and not great) team in the league and that is Inter Milan. What competition are you talking about? There is no competition in the league, from the big teams, how many teams beat Inter? And with all the defeats we got, we are in the second place, only 7 points behind Inter. Now seriously, logically, wouldn't it be funny if a team like Juve gets crowned with the scudetto at the end of the year? I am not asking you as a Juventino, but try to look at it objectively. And do not forget the favors Inter received and Juve too. Juve is struggling like hell, had the worst moments, but see how they are comfortably there in the second place 13 points clear from the UEFA cup spot, you call that competition?
Competition wise I said it all, as for quality wise? Only Inter has a quality team, Milan had the chance to make their team better, but the idiots keep bringing offensive players, while their main weakness is defense, just like ours! Are you aware that Italy only has one team in Europe? and that's Udinese, in a shitty competition like UEFA cup. Isn't that pathetic? Not that I care about the league, Juve is the only team concerns me.. But I don't see any small reason to praise this league. Competition wise, French, German, English and many other leagues are ahead of us, quality wise, English and Spanish leagues are miles ahead of Serie A.
You're talking about competition for the 1st place. There isn't one. I'm talking about the overall quality in the league. Obviously the top 3 teams lack quality to fight with the English, as for all the others, the league isn't weaker than it was back in 2005 and 2006.
Denco was actually downplaying the quality of the mid-table teams while in reality they are even better than they were 4 years ago.
If you also think that the smaller teams were stronger back then, i'd like to hear your explaination why is it that you think that way.
Denco was actually downplaying the quality of the mid-table teams while in reality they are even better than they were 4 years ago.
If you also think that the smaller teams were stronger back then, i'd like to hear your explaination why is it that you think that way.
Serie A is not as strong as it once was thats for sure. But i don't think serie A is "miles" behind the english and specially not the spanish la liga. The top 4 teams is serie A is not as strong as they once were but the rest of the league are pretty good.
IMO serie A was declining even before the calciopoli (with the bankruptcy of parma, lazio, fiorentina and the financial problems that hit Roma) The final nail in the coffin was the calciopoli.
Currently there is a new fresh start for the italian game and i think things looks pretty encouraging. I read somewhere that this summer italian clubs were the second highest spenders in europe 80 mil euros shorter than the EPL (clubs in italy haven't spend that much since 2000-01 season). It might take a while but if nothing bad will happen in the next few years (another calciopoli or clubs get bankrupt) then things IMO will get better and clubs will start to win again in europe.
IMO serie A was declining even before the calciopoli (with the bankruptcy of parma, lazio, fiorentina and the financial problems that hit Roma) The final nail in the coffin was the calciopoli.
Currently there is a new fresh start for the italian game and i think things looks pretty encouraging. I read somewhere that this summer italian clubs were the second highest spenders in europe 80 mil euros shorter than the EPL (clubs in italy haven't spend that much since 2000-01 season). It might take a while but if nothing bad will happen in the next few years (another calciopoli or clubs get bankrupt) then things IMO will get better and clubs will start to win again in europe.
Very well said.
The declining happened way before calciopoli. Apart from 2 or 3 clubs who survived the crisis, all the others in the league were in KO. And even the big teams weren't doing fantastic back then. Milan's success fooled a lot of people. That great Milan was a leftover of the good times. That successful Milan generation was actually created when serie A was still the strongest.
We were regularly eliminated and outplayed by the English, Roma didn't even play in the knock-outs etc. The last two seasons the Italians were again awful and again that Milan generation fooled everyone.
But things are really improving. Poeple will take a simplistic view at the matters and say that the Italians were all eliminated, so how is the league improving? But Roma were destroyed 7:1 from Manchester, last year all the Italian teams were not only eliminated but they were humiliated and they couldn't even score a goal.
This year Roma beat Chelsea 3:1 and won the group in front of Chelsea. We won the group in front of Real Madrid and we beat them twice. In the knock-outs all the Italians played much better than last year and they actually troubled the EPL sides.
It can't happen over night. The English big teams are still stronger, but Italians started spending more, they started playing better and even though the big teams are still not at the top they're slowly getting there, while the other Italian teams are again investing a lot and buying quality players.
You have to be shortsighted not to see that things are improving.
The declining happened way before calciopoli. Apart from 2 or 3 clubs who survived the crisis, all the others in the league were in KO. And even the big teams weren't doing fantastic back then. Milan's success fooled a lot of people. That great Milan was a leftover of the good times. That successful Milan generation was actually created when serie A was still the strongest.
We were regularly eliminated and outplayed by the English, Roma didn't even play in the knock-outs etc. The last two seasons the Italians were again awful and again that Milan generation fooled everyone.
But things are really improving. Poeple will take a simplistic view at the matters and say that the Italians were all eliminated, so how is the league improving? But Roma were destroyed 7:1 from Manchester, last year all the Italian teams were not only eliminated but they were humiliated and they couldn't even score a goal.
This year Roma beat Chelsea 3:1 and won the group in front of Chelsea. We won the group in front of Real Madrid and we beat them twice. In the knock-outs all the Italians played much better than last year and they actually troubled the EPL sides.
It can't happen over night. The English big teams are still stronger, but Italians started spending more, they started playing better and even though the big teams are still not at the top they're slowly getting there, while the other Italian teams are again investing a lot and buying quality players.
You have to be shortsighted not to see that things are improving.
Yes, Alen, i am glad we understand each other
and Fred, i dont mean that Poulsen was a bad player, but a bad choice.
For ex if we buy Cassano this season and keep playing with Marchionni, Grygera, Molinaro, Legro. I would also say that his transfer is not what we needed and it is a mistake. (even though, Cassano is far more talented than Poulsen and he would come as a starter)
And that wouldnt mean, that i consider him a bad player, rather than a choice that pays little respect to our needs/priorities.
and Fred, i dont mean that Poulsen was a bad player, but a bad choice.
For ex if we buy Cassano this season and keep playing with Marchionni, Grygera, Molinaro, Legro. I would also say that his transfer is not what we needed and it is a mistake. (even though, Cassano is far more talented than Poulsen and he would come as a starter)
And that wouldnt mean, that i consider him a bad player, rather than a choice that pays little respect to our needs/priorities.