Claudio Marchisio (57 Viewers)

[adriano_c]

Whatever you say!

Fact is that many CM's were bought over the past few years & not a single one has managed to "relegate" Marchisio to the bench.

Aquilani would have been the first if it weren't for our lack of credible options on the left. I just don't agree that his (Marchisio's) benching of Lanzafame or Pepe is as awe-inspiring a fact as you'd lead me to believe. The thing is, I'm more impressed by someone like Melo who, after a disastrous season, did his talking on the pitch and earned his position at the expense of anyone in his way, rather than having to be relocated to get on the field (and I'm going to go ahead and discount nobodies like Paro, mentally-weak ones like Tiago, or supposedly tactically-incompatible ones like Poulsen as true competition).

In fact, coaches even prefer fielding him in a less than ideal position, rather than benching him. Every single coach. And I'm perfectly aware why.

Every single coach? Prior to Del Neri who, went ahead and fielded him "out of position" (CM)? Ciro was using a 3 man midfield, he was fine there, Zaccheroni kept shuffling but never used him as a winger as far as I recall, Ranieri played him most often directly in the center... I don't get your point here...

But I guess proving to be better than the other players & rightfully earning your spot doesn't mean forcing yourself in the team on your own merits.
Kinda how Calciopoli gave Giovinvo a free ride to become a sure starter.

Calciopoli and mercato failings have seen Marchisio as the main benefactor in the center position. Disagree if you like, that's fine, but I just don't see him as a player that's getting into another top team's center. Melo and Aquilani could make a case, however. Marchisio fits into Juventus due to some very glaringly obvious points of context.

Bringing up Giovinco doesn't really strengthen your argument. Clearly there's something wrong with him that the media hasn't been made aware of mentally, behaviour-wise, or whatever. He couldn't get substantial time under anyone, no matter the scenario, good or bad. So he doesn't really apply.

And Paro.

And Picollo.

And Palladino.

All mid-table material.

I never said Marchisio wasn't backup material for Juventus, however, heh.

In summation, I feel he isn't a first teamer because he's that good, but rather, because his competition is (and has been) that bad.

 

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[K.O.]

Why are we talking about the captaincy armband between Chiellini and Marchisio while Buffon is still here?

I think Buffon will be our captain for the next 5 years at least.

 

[Red]

at the end a team can have more than one leader.

We have Buffon, Del Piero and Chiellini who are a all leaders.

2005 we had Buffon, Del Piero, Nedved, Cannavaro and Thuram playing who were all leaders and inspirational players.

The role of the captain is exaggerated.

Players need to take responsibility whether they are captain or not.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

The role of the captain is exaggerated.

Players need to take responsibility whether they are captain or not.

True, it's more of a nominal honor. And on merit, Chiellini deserves it after Buffon.

 

[sateeh]

Don't agree with any of your reasons.

That he's from Turin is cool from a PR angle (in that charming "boy leads hometown club to glory" kind of way), and also somewhat validates the youth setup, but other than that? Fairly inconsequential, considering 95% of our first team members aren't themselves from the neighbourhood and thusly it wouldn't resonate with them. I'm a believer that a captain leads on the pitch by example, with spirit and determination, and between the two? Chiellini wins this by a landslide. It's not even close. At all. Time and time again he's driven the team onward, single-handedly often, particularly when we most needed it. Marchisio? This is a guy who struggles to be relevant on the pitch much of the time ("Mr. Anonymous") and was himself supplanted by superior players in the center of the park.

As for the rest? How did he become a first team player? Calciopoli, mainly. The dearth of talent we had, the necessity for a "rebuilding from within" and all that. He never forced himself into the team on his own merits, but rather, took the opportunity presented him (more of a victor of circumstances, if you ask me).

His attitude? I'll give you that. He's professional. However, we have a number of players with that quality. What makes him more special than them in that respect?

As for his position on the pitch... Yeah, I guess it's nice to have a captain in the mix of everything when it's predicated upon him being charismatic, motivating and able to drag the rest of the team forward. The problem? Marchisio doesn't really embody any of that, in my opinion.

One would say the same about Chiellini. Up until the first season of Calciopoli Giorgio was a fairly average left back with a professional attitude and a lot of heart as you would say. But then came Andrade's injury and we had to play him in the center ( he played in the center before in serie B for us, to me that counts for little). Then he went on to be one of the best in the league. Isn't that the victor of circumstances as well ? You need a bit of luck to compliment your talent, unless you are someone extraordinary (which none of these players are).

I think Marchi is proving his worth day after day, not only with professionalism but with his heart and the intelligent edge he adds to that midfield. I think thats a quality that is much appreciated but his coaches and the players around him.

He needs a bit of consistency and more impact but I think that will come with time. Remember that is not his natural position and I hope he makes it his own. I dont believe he is failing in it but certainly with his abilities could have a more substantial impact offensively as defensively he has been outstanding.

 

[Ahmed]

great answer sateeh, spot on.

 

[adriano_c]

One would say the same about Chiellini.

Sure, however, it's not really relevant as I had been disagreeing very specifically with the argument of "how Marchisio got into the team" being used as some sort of criteria for his legitimacy as captain of the club. The implication, as I understood it, at least, was that he (Marchisio) had put in some world class displays and thus got into the starting lineup (which, of course, isn't the case).

I think Marchi is proving his worth day after day, not only with professionalism but with his heart and the intelligent edge he adds to that midfield. I think thats a quality that is much appreciated but his coaches and the players around him.

To be completely honest, comparative to last season, I don't see much growth in Marchisio. So, if anything, he's "proving his worth" in that he's a pretty good all-around player. No more than that, though. It's no small wonder that a lot of his biggest supporters have trouble giving him credible praise (taking tangibles into account) beyond vaguely complimentary sounding stuff. He went from being widely-labeled as "consistent", then when he wasn't, he became "solid", and now he's "tactically astute", heh.

He needs a bit of consistency and more impact but I think that will come with time. Remember that is not his natural position and I hope he makes it his own. I dont believe he is failing in it but certainly with his abilities could have a more substantial impact offensively as defensively he has been outstanding.

He's just 24 so there's plenty of time to step up, yes. After all, many Italians bloom late on.

I disagree with him being "outstanding" defensively. He's certainly "solid", though (lol).

 

[Red]

Excellent.

Another person who underestimates the importance of positional sense and decision making.

 

[adriano_c]

So that's it, is it? His exceptional "positional sense" and "decision making"? Granted, I don't often see him caught out, but you're pushing it with the latter. Truly. He isn't Sissoko or Melo with the inopportune brain explosions, but he isn't some sort of footballing brain on the pitch, either. If that were the case, then MAYBE it'd make up for him being more modest offensively and defensively. It isn't, though.

 

[Nicholas]

I think we need to get the fullmatch against Chelsea played in Turin uploaded and look at the masterclass Marchisio showed that night.

 

[Red]

So that's it, is it? His exceptional "positional sense" and "decision making"? Granted, I don't often see him caught out, but you're pushing it with the latter. Truly. He isn't Sissoko or Melo with the inopportune brain explosions, but he isn't some sort of footballing brain on the pitch, either. If that were the case, then MAYBE it'd make up for him being more modest offensively and defensively. It isn't, though.

When did I comment on Marchisio's ability?

 

[adriano_c]

When did I comment on Marchisio's ability?

When you implied that I was either overlooking or underestimating his main selling point. At least that's how I understood the previous comment. That or you're trying to come at me sideways in a passive aggressive manner, heh.

 

[Djabrail]

Marchi will always play due to his versatility, and it doesnt matter whos gonna be our coach or his competition, he would always find his spot.

 

[Red]

When you implied that I was either overlooking or underestimating his main selling point. At least that's how I understood the previous comment. That or you're trying to come at me sideways in a passive aggressive manner, heh.

It seems to me that you, along with many posters here, undervalue abilities of players that are not easily quantified.

It's easy to say someone is a good passer or someone is fast, but not many people seem to realise the importance of less tangible abilities.

Whether Marchisio has these abilities is open to debate.

 

[JCK]

Sure, however, it's not really relevant as I had been disagreeing very specifically with the argument of "how Marchisio got into the team" being used as some sort of criteria for his legitimacy as captain of the club. The implication, as I understood it, at least, was that he (Marchisio) had put in some world class displays and thus got into the starting lineup (which, of course, isn't the case)

Then you understood the implication wrong.

 

[JCK]

Marchi will always play due to his versatility, and it doesnt matter whos gonna be our coach or his competition, he would always find his spot.

He reminds me somehow of Javier Zanetti in that sense.

 

[Bjerknes]

Marchi will always play due to his versatility, and it doesnt matter whos gonna be our coach or his competition, he would always find his spot.

I somehow doubt that, considering Marchisio offers nothing on the wing.

Someone like Zanetti can play all over because he has no weaknesses and can get down the flank. Marchisio can't, and that's why it's nonsense to use him out there.

 

[adriano_c]

It seems to me that you, along with many posters here, undervalue abilities of players that are not easily quantified.

It's easy to say someone is a good passer or someone is fast, but not many people seem to realise the importance of less tangible abilities.

Whether Marchisio has these abilities is open to debate.

Disagreed. If anything, I'd say things that aren't possible to gauge with hard statistics, things like grit, determination, and "character" (as nebulous as that one is) are just as appreciated, particularly on this forum. Obviously I include myself in this, as evidenced by my admiration of Chiellini.

On the other hand, it seems to me, along with proponents of Marchisio as a starter, at least this week, that his main strength is that he "doesn't fuck up". After all, that's the gist of having supposedly great "decision making" and "positional sense". For the latter, I take it to be more so defensively, as certainly his positioning when going forward isn't spectacular.

So, in the end, you have a pretty good player, whose highlight is not making mistakes, rather than being "fast" or a "good passer" (to use your examples), or even being that exceptional going forward or safe at the back. Then there's his demeanour on the pitch which, as aptly as I can put it, is "quiet". I've never seen (or can't remember seeing) him fire up his teammates or take the game by the scruff of the neck on his own, as it were. So what's left? A player who isn't or cannot make a big demonstrable positive contribution in contrast to his peers at CM, but rather one who simply isn't making a negative one (via his avoidance of mistakes).

Other than that, clearly, I'd prefer it if we had a proper left winger (in the vein of Krasic) who does the job a winger should, rather than a jack of all trades who's supposedly providing "balance" in the face of our team having a bunch of handicapped left backs who add nothing defensively or going forward. Marchisio on the left is such a band aid solution that it irks me to watch. It beats buying proper personnel though, I suppose, leaving us with a one dimensional and somewhat predictable attack.

 

[Bjerknes]

Great post, AC. I'm mostly in agreement. What it comes down to is that you waste an entire position on someone who can't make a difference. It would very much be like playing Motta as a right-winger... these players are out of position. It really needs to stop.

 

[Bjerknes]

I also don't want to hear this nonsense about "Marchisio cutting inside."

He's not a Nedved, he's not a player who can threaten a defense, so knock it off. He isn't a winger, he isn't an attacking midfielder, so what's he doing out there besides taking up space and defending?

This idiotic obsession with keeping the left wing "safe" needs to end, both for Juve and the Azzurri. You have no gain by fielding Marchisio out there.

I don't care if he's "too good to be benched." That's nonsense as well, even though I like him.