[CL] JUVENTUS 0-3 Real Madrid [April 3rd 2018] (1 Viewer)

DelPiero no10

Junior Member
Aug 19, 2013
283
My opinions:

In my opinion it was the end of an era last season when this team was humiliated 4-1 by the same Real Madrid team. In that final the gulf in class was painfully obvious and you just knew that it was going to be a very long time before Juventus would reach a Champions League final again.

Usually when something as humiliating as that happens you react. It is fantastic getting to a Champions League final but losing 4-1 when you are supposed to be an elite club should be a huge cause for concern. Juventus had been completely outplayed that day and they looked like a Europa club in comparison to the Real Madrid team.

So the transfer campaign comes around and you are expecting Juventus to improve the squad drastically. After all this team can still get to the latter stages of the Champions League but it is undoubtedly 2 world class players short of actually competing for the trophy. Juventus also have significant income from that Champions League run so you expect a big signing. Runners up in the Champions League for the second time in 3 years and with the most recent defeat being by such a big margin you don't even hope for a big name signing...you expect it.

What do Juventus do? They sign Matuidi, Bernadeschi, Costa, Benetia and MDS. Now you might look at those signings as good. But lets really dissect them. Matuidi improves the squad but he is not ever going to be the player that Juventus really need to compete for the Champions League. For Champions League purposes the signing is worthless. Bernadeschi, great signing as in great potential but he is not someone to rely on for this season and still needs development. This is the sort of signing that should happen anyway and in addition to big name signings for clubs striving for the Champions League. Costa - again great signing but I guess Costa was supposed to be our X Factor signing and as effective as he has been he just isn't world class. After getting so close so many times in the Champions League after being incredibly frugal in our net spending for the last few seasons you expect signings like Bernadeschi and Costa but again...with a big name signing coming in. Finally Benetia, good signing but did I mention he was a replacement for a world class Bonnuci? Again we not only don't sign a world class player, we actually lose a world class player and a talisman for the club. And then we go to MDS, he's not an elite european club starter and he was brought in to replace Dani $#@!in Alves who was genuinely playing world class, talk about a downgrade.

So when Juventus got Real Madrid in the QF I knew this was only going one way and believed it could be worse than 3-0 (and but for the crossbar twice it very well could have been). There was nothing in our European performances which suggested we were a top team anymore. We were trashed by Barcelona 3-0, we were undeniably outplayed by Tottenham over two legs and our actual performances in the Serie A were dyer. We can count our blessings that Serie A is such a weak league because believe me that Juventus team wouldn't make the CL next season if we were in the Premier League.

There is glaring and I mean glaring weaknesses in this Juventus side. Buffon is on the decline and is becoming a liability. He is certainly not 'world class' anymore on current form and that in itself is like losing another vital player to keeping Juventus competitive. Our fullbacks are just $#@!. I hate to be harsh but they are just $#@!. MDS and Asamoah I mean what elite European club would put those two out? Sadly if rumors are to be believed we are 'reinforcing' the full back position with Spinza and Darmien. Obviously we have just decided to give up being competitive at fullback.

We move to centre backs and we are still playing Barzagli. A 38 year old, notoriously slow central defender against one of the fastest attacks in football. I mean I know Benetia is suspended but how did things get that bad? Then Chiellini he is one of the best central defenders in the world but he is not as effective without Bonnuci beside him and that is the truth. I know the partnership had to be broken up but we really should have broke the bank and replaced like for like..once the likes of Buffon and Chiellini start leaking defensively then the entire team's heads drop.

I'll do a separate quick paragraph here for Alex Sandro. He is supposed to be world class and was last season but this season he has not been world class at all. And he is not a left midfielder. Again how did things get so desperate that we have to play an out of form and out of position player in one of our most vital fixtures this season?

Guys honestly the midfield is just a joke for any top level European club. Khedira and Bentacur were our central midfielders. Bentacur is an exceptional prospect but he is not ready yet to be starting Champions League knock out games for a club with aspirations to win. I am not complaining about his actual performance which was fine but any club with ambitions to win should have a player exceptionally better than Bentacur's current level and with substantially more experience. That we had no one due to Pjanic's suspension is regrettable. Khedira is a ghost and he is not an effective player anymore, he seems to position well but I mean is that really what we look for in our starting midfielders? world class positioning? Khedira wouldn't even bench for most elite teams and yet he is one of the first names down on our team sheets :sergio:

I won't complain about Costa. I think as our 'big signing' its a let down but as a signing its a great one. Hes exceptional but short of world class. Unfortunately we have no one who is world class in our entire midfield and that is a problem. Pjanic is a level below however I actually feel he can step up a gear further. He will never be Kroos or Modric level though and sometimes you have to look at your competition's midfield and ask if we are really happy with our star midfield players being Pjanic and Costa? Even Tottenham have easily a better midfield than us. The engine of our team is way, way behind the top 10 clubs in Europe. This is not acceptable.

I can't complain with Dybala and Higuain. The service they receive is nowhere close to what they would get at Barcelona, Madrid, Man City, Bayern, Tottenham, Man Utd, Liverpool, PSG. Dybala gets a hard time but he is not exactly surrounded with creativity. Matuidi, Khedira, Bentacur..... Overall I have no issues with our attack although we need a world class attacking midfielder to service our attack. I also fear we play Higuain way too much and think like any top club some competition for his place woudn't be a bad thing for that type of player but I am not greedy.

The bench is just not there. We brought on Matuidi. Hardly a game changer. Mandzu who has been out of form for awhile and I think has not showed anything this season comparative to last season. Cuadrado is a good bench option though and he brings energy to the game I must say. However every time I look to other teams benches I see punishers dotted all over who can come on and change a game. On the Juventus bench I see Cuadrado who can inject some pace but its hardly the same as having Bale and Kovacic now is it?

Unless this team buys big this transfer season then next season will be worse and may be the final straw that knocks us out of the CL top tier for a long, long time. We have Buffon retiring or going to second choice (so losing a world class talisman), we have Chiellini one year older, Asamoahs going which isn't bad but if his replacement is rumoured to be Darmien then thats a potential downgrade even from Asamoah. If Sandro goes as well that is a massive downgrade. We absolutely need to break the bank and buy a world class centre back, a world class midfielder and two full backs that are considerably better than our current lot. I don't know how much that will cost but if Juventus don't fix their defence and midfield before next season then the Old Lady will be put on breathing support.
True, we consistently expect Max to pull rabbits out of the hat with players significantly inferior to the opposition and then some have the nerve to be disappointed when it doesn't happen. Just get him some A grade talent and lets see what we can do.
 

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icemaη

Rab's Husband - The Regista
Moderator
Aug 27, 2008
34,948
Ok just read it. Some very good points however Benatia is not downgrade compared to Bonucci.
Defensively no. We did however lose our ability to play our from the back if Pjanic isn't clicking or is out. That responsibility is now constantly with Chiellini who runs with the ball into the opposition half and then does something or the other that's barely effective.
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
41,845
icemaη;5709005 said:
Defensively no. We did however lose our ability to play our from the back if Pjanic isn't clicking or is out. That responsibility is now constantly with Chiellini who runs with the ball into the opposition half and then does something or the other that's barely effective.
:agree:

This is also why Szczesny is so important for us. He's quite a fantastic keeper with the ball at his feet, his accuracy with long balls out from the back are a thing of beauty. With Buffon you kind of have to play the ball out through the CBs, and that's where the loss of Bonucci and Alves hurts a lot. A fantastic long ball passer in Bonucci which allows you to bypass pressure and Alves who can carry the ball out at his feet. Without them it exposes Buffon's weakness with the ball at his feet and also our defenders relatively poor ability to bypass high pressure.

I don't think Buffon is a poor keeper now or anything like that, but the lack of ball skills along our defensive line exposes one of his biggest weaknesses.
 

Xperd

Allegrophobic Infidel
Jun 1, 2012
32,418
[video=twitter;981691307365191680]https://twitter.com/IndianRegista/status/981691307365191680[/video]

Cristiano :touched:

Hope this isnt fake ffs
 

Elvin

Senior Member
Nov 25, 2005
36,829
You know what my theory is?
Juve squad are way too organized, in that we play on auto-mode 99% of our games, but in CL you need to improvise almost every move.
 

JCK

Biased
JCK
May 11, 2004
123,475
:agree:

This is also why Szczesny is so important for us. He's quite a fantastic keeper with the ball at his feet, his accuracy with long balls out from the back are a thing of beauty. With Buffon you kind of have to play the ball out through the CBs, and that's where the loss of Bonucci and Alves hurts a lot. A fantastic long ball passer in Bonucci which allows you to bypass pressure and Alves who can carry the ball out at his feet. Without them it exposes Buffon's weakness with the ball at his feet and also our defenders relatively poor ability to bypass high pressure.

I don't think Buffon is a poor keeper now or anything like that, but the lack of ball skills along our defensive line exposes one of his biggest weaknesses.
I don't know why Allegri does not see this and keeps on fielding Buffon against the like of Real when you need to play an accurate poisonous long ball every now and then if you are to surprise them and actually threaten their goal.
 

Xperd

Allegrophobic Infidel
Jun 1, 2012
32,418
I don't know why Allegri does not see this and keeps on fielding Buffon against the like of Real when you need to play an accurate poisonous long ball every now and then if you are to surprise them and actually threaten their goal.
Because benching Buffon would've caused a huge outrage in the media. Allegri is not very authoritative with his senior players.
 

Xperd

Allegrophobic Infidel
Jun 1, 2012
32,418
Media outrage will become praise if The Pole contributes to a result against a giant like Real.
True but Allegri wouldnt have taken the risk anyway. Like he dint take the 'risk' and had to field Pirlo for sentiment reasons against Barca in the final

Playing Buffon in CL is merely for sentimental reasons now than on his quality as a keeper.
 

juventus4life

Senior Member
Apr 21, 2012
3,955
We mentally lost the game before it was started. No formations could save us. On the other hand, they knew they would win. How could we have that Real Madrid mentality? You can say Juve need to win CL first but I think we need more fearless players like Bentancur, the Pole, like some Liverpool players against City today. They might have not won CL yet but they don't give a shit about the elite teams BBM. Just go out and fight.
 

kao_ray

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2014
6,567
We mentally lost the game before it was started. No formations could save us. On the other hand, they knew they would win. How could we have that Real Madrid mentality? You can say Juve need to win CL first but I think we need more fearless players like Bentancur, the Pole, like some Liverpool players against City today. They might have not won CL yet but they don't give a $#@! about the elite teams BBM. Just go out and fight.
:agree:
 
Aug 2, 2005
3,990
Because benching Buffon would've caused a huge outrage in the media. Allegri is not very authoritative with his senior players.

If in 2015 final before Barca second goal he subbed Pirlo for the more energetic Pereyra who was outnumbered many times during the first and second half up to their second goal.
But he cannot do it or the media would have slaughtered him if it did not pay back.

Call me crazy or whatever, that was my thoughts anyway during that game and till now still convinced of it. We had Marchisio in the field who played for Pirlo many times that season when Pirlo was injured.
And Yes, I remember exactly that we were in control before their second goal, but keeping Pirlo was a liability in that regard. Watch the second goal and watch Pirlo and Suarez.

The other thing I have against Allegri the late subs which cost us alot yesterday, in Cardiff final, and in 2015 final.
Not going to talk about the formations against Real. He is doing many things right to then destroy it with these late subs.



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Aug 2, 2005
3,990
True but Allegri wouldnt have taken the risk anyway. Like he dint take the 'risk' and had to field Pirlo for sentiment reasons against Barca in the final

Playing Buffon in CL is merely for sentimental reasons now than on his quality as a keeper.
Just read this, so we agree :)


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Vialli_92

Senior Member
Mar 7, 2013
6,498
True but Allegri wouldnt have taken the risk anyway. Like he dint take the 'risk' and had to field Pirlo for sentiment reasons against Barca in the final

Playing Buffon in CL is merely for sentimental reasons now than on his quality as a keeper.
If in 2015 final before Barca second goal he subbed Pirlo for the more energetic Pereyra who was outnumbered many times during the first and second half up to their second goal.
But he cannot do it or the media would have slaughtered him if it did not pay back.

Call me crazy or whatever, that was my thoughts anyway during that game and till now still convinced of it. We had Marchisio in the field who played for Pirlo many times that season when Pirlo was injured.
And Yes, I remember exactly that we were in control before their second goal, but keeping Pirlo was a liability in that regard. Watch the second goal and watch Pirlo and Suarez.

The other thing I have against Allegri the late subs which cost us alot yesterday, in Cardiff final, and in 2015 final.
Not going to talk about the formations against Real. He is doing many things right to then destroy it with these late subs.



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True, the 2015 final was never a game Pirlo should have started

Bring him on in the second half when the teams have slowed down and he will get more time on the ball

Starting him was a terrible decision in my opinion
 

Xperd

Allegrophobic Infidel
Jun 1, 2012
32,418
Its just that the senior veterans at the club have too much power. 9 out of 10 coaches wouldnt bench them because they're big figures/bcoz of their stature and it would cause huge controversy in the media. Remember how much stick Mourinho got for benching Casillas ? (which was the right thing to do), but since he was a legend and Spanish, the media/fans crucified Mourinho and in the process even the entire locker room turned against him which resulted in losing his job. Benching these legendary Italian figures would be almost considered blasphemous here and which would most likely lead to locker room tension so i cant really fault Allegri here for sticking with them. But hopefully Buffon and co. realize time is up and move on. Better late than never.
 

ForzaFerrari

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2005
100
Hey, big time lurker here (since 2005) but after the shitfest against Real there's just one thing I need to get off my chest.

Why is our coach and our goalkeeper publicly speaking about how we're as good as out of the competition and still having the Scudetto and Coppa to aim for this season?
I just can not get this when our team is always throwing the 'fino alla fine' line out there.

There's not one interview with these two where I've read that we should go all out in Madrid next week. Look at what Kompany said yesterday after the loss against Liverpool. He said 'it will be hard but we're going to throw everything and the kitchen sink at it next week' and he had the look of a guy looking for revenge in his eyes.

Why are a lot of our experienced players already so defeated?

I am a massive Buffon fan, but I just get the impression that he should lead the teame with fire, not by sucking up to Real & Ronaldo all the time. Same for Allegri. This tie is NOT over, even if we're not playing all that well. But those guys are already conceding defeat.

It's football, you go over there and trie to score as soon as possible. If you score one, everything's possible. At worst, you go out fighting instead of this horrible mentality the old guard is showing.

I needs be, play the guys that want to prove themselves and put all sentiment aside regarding the old guard. Szczesny, Rugani, hell I would seriously throw Marchisio in there just because he's got something to prove.

I have never seen such a defeatist attitude from a top team before and after a game. Unbelievable. Sorry for the rant! ;-)
 

PhRoZeN

Livin with Mediocre
Mar 29, 2006
15,844
Hey, big time lurker here (since 2005) but after the $#@!fest against Real there's just one thing I need to get off my chest.

Why is our coach and our goalkeeper publicly speaking about how we're as good as out of the competition and still having the Scudetto and Coppa to aim for this season?
I just can not get this when our team is always throwing the 'fino alla fine' line out there.

There's not one interview with these two where I've read that we should go all out in Madrid next week. Look at what Kompany said yesterday after the loss against Liverpool. He said 'it will be hard but we're going to throw everything and the kitchen sink at it next week' and he had the look of a guy looking for revenge in his eyes.

Why are a lot of our experienced players already so defeated?

I am a massive Buffon fan, but I just get the impression that he should lead the teame with fire, not by sucking up to Real & Ronaldo all the time. Same for Allegri. This tie is NOT over, even if we're not playing all that well. But those guys are already conceding defeat.

It's football, you go over there and trie to score as soon as possible. If you score one, everything's possible. At worst, you go out fighting instead of this horrible mentality the old guard is showing.

I needs be, play the guys that want to prove themselves and put all sentiment aside regarding the old guard. Szczesny, Rugani, hell I would seriously throw Marchisio in there just because he's got something to prove.

I have never seen such a defeatist attitude from a top team before and after a game. Unbelievable. Sorry for the rant! ;-)
I agree, it all starts with our approach. mentally we lost this tie in December. On Tuesday it was just a nail in the coffin and unless we hold on to our balls tightly then next week is the burial. The old guards praised real and ronaldo more than I praise my mother.

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Xperd

Allegrophobic Infidel
Jun 1, 2012
32,418
[video=twitter;981631177055522816]https://twitter.com/napolista/status/981631177055522816[/video]

Really ? ::lol3::

No wonder Serie A is such a tinpot league with teams such as these as our 'rivals'
 

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