[CL] Bordeaux 2-0 Juventus, Nov 25th, 2009 (45 Viewers)

[giovanotti]

Why even bother? We could play 4-4-2 diamond or a flexible 4-3-1-2.. We need to play with 2 forwards. Ever since I started watching Juventus from the late 80s. I cannot remember a time when we were consistently playing well with a lone striker up front.

But we also have some pace problems ,all the teams that are using counter attacks are winning against us :Napoli,Palermo,Bordeaux. They easily get in the position to endanger Buffon.
What do you think about that?

 

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[ZAF3000]

Thats one of the things that 4-2-3-1 depends on is pace. A diamond 4-4-2 or a flexible 4-3-1-2 (which switch to 4-1-3-2) is something we maybe able to adapt to with our players.

 

[giovanotti]

Thats one of the things that 4-2-3-1 depends on is pace. A diamond 4-4-2 or a flexible 4-3-1-2 (which switch to 4-1-3-2) is something we maybe able to adapt to with our players.

Good,I like that idea,a tactics that could use both Del Piero and Diego at the proper places.

We also need to work on our physical fitness.

 

[ZAF3000]

Yes definitely our fitness is an issue.

 

[Paolo Sosa]

why we are doing just fine, we have a very good coach, we have a very good team and we are getting some nice game plan for every game.
WAKE UP
stop over-rating our team, ciro is just learning how to be a coach and we have given him the time to understand the team. Melo need a break

 

[blondu]

how about this guys ..it's kind of a 4-2-2-2 but a bit modified (diego a bit central, melo to cover the open spot when we're defendind, one of our cb to advance a bit more if sth, and grosso to do a huge effort in covering):

 

[giovanotti]

In my opinion too attacking,and Diego is not a left winger someone would need to cover that left flank,that's why we feel a lack of Nedved.
That's the problem when you play 4-3-1-2 and you need to transform it into a 4-2-2.

By the way I'm just asking how good would be Diego as a winger?

 

[ZAF3000]

Well Diego was never tried their. During his time in Germany he played as AM or an assistant striker.

 

[Stephan]

how about this guys ..it's kind of a 4-2-2-2 but a bit modified (diego a bit central, melo to cover the open spot when we're defendind, one of our cb to advance a bit more if sth, and grosso to do a huge effort in covering):

one word: Camoranesi

 

[blondu]

In my opinion too attacking,and Diego is not a left winger someone would need to cover that left flank,that's why we feel a lack of Nedved.
That's the problem when you play 4-3-1-2 and you need to transform it into a 4-2-2.

By the way I'm just asking how good would be Diego as a winger?

it's all about the offense position and the defence position of the players, when in offence he can get just in back of our 2 strikers, when defending he can get a a more winger role, but grosso and melo will help that side.

 

[blondu]

one word: Camoranesi

camo or gio...gio was on my background formation so i didn't changed him.

 

[icemaη]

Camo has been our best offensive player this season. He's very good until he decides to go all Al-Qaeda on the opposite team and try to break some legs...

 

[Hust]

I haven't even watched the game yet, I worked yesterday. I don't think I even want to, is there anything worth seeing in the game?

I don't even want to begin thinking about losing to bayern. It was been one thing after the other with this club for the last 4 years. Between Calciopoli, Racist chants for no reason at all, fines, courts, ups/downs, disappointing performances, underperforming superstars, injuries after injuries, suspended medics, board changes, coaching changes, it has been disappointment after disappointment

I still love this club. Forza Juve

 

[IrishZebra]

Don't watch it!

 

[giovanotti]

Good advice!

 

[blondu]

http://www.juventuz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2242187&postcount=246

at the first 2 sentences, you'll fit next to Ally McCoist at fifa 11 commentary

 

[Lo-Pan]

The problems with 4-2-3-1 is:

Buffon
Caceras Cannavaro Chiellini Grosso
Sissoko Melo
Camoranesi Diego Giovinco
Amauri​

This formation relies ALOT on the following:
1- DMs must intercept during defense
2- DMs must transfer the team from defense to offense

Now although our DMs can do the "1" they definitely cannot do the "2"

3- The formation relies on Fullbacks continuously pushing forward:
We are already very weak on this department.

4- The whole point of this formation is to have 3 players behind the striker who can change positions between each other to give more creativity.
In fairness sake on paper the three players can do the job. ONLY IF they had a proper DMs and Full backs who can deliver the ball to them.
Another problem with this formation is that if one of those three players (Diego, Camoranesi and Giovinco) is injured/Suspended there is no cover for him, except for Diego who can be replaced by Del Piero. Giovinco and Camo are playing too wide and upfront for any of our midfield or attackers to accommodate.

5- Where will Del Piero play?
Call me old fashioned, call me Del Piero biased, or even Del Piero's C*** sucker, I honestly don't care. But the truth is, he is one of our most influential players and not playing him when he's ready is utter madness. Other teams envy us for having and some here are debating that we should not field him because he cannot play in a 4-2-3-1 system??

6- Because of the nature of the "3" in 4-2-3-1 the full backs are more exposed that usual. That would be a problem if we had top notch full backs but we don't. The good thing about the flat 4-4-2 system in the past two years is that it covered are full back defensively.

7- With the problems mentioned taken into consideration, playing a lone striker won't put enough pressure on the opponent --> more pressure on our midfield and full backs (who obviously cannot handle it) .

One of the points of this formation is to allow the defensive midfielders to solely defend, hassle, intercept and play very simple passes to any of the three attacking midfielders. Its the attacking midfielders' job, to find space, to receive the ball and to create, NOT the job of the Defensive midfielders. Momo, Melo, Marchisio, Poulsen...all are capable of hassling, intercepting, covering and making very simple passes. Its up to the 3 in front of them to make space and move the team from Defence to Offence. That is the point of this formation. It simplifies the job of the defensive midfielders. It fails to work when the offensive trio dont find space, or station themselves too far up the field, forcing the 2 DMs to move forward or try passes which are beyond their ken...

DP is not even nearly fit yet. So his inclusion, despite Ciro's disastrous selection on Wednesday, should be overlooked for now. A striker especially needs to gain match sharpness before being started...When fit, indeed, he can be useful, but only in the front line, just off the main striker, which means a 2 in attack. He lacks the strength and pace and stamina to play as any of the attacking 3. The skill he has, without a doubt. but that isn't enough without the other required attributes.

So whilst some of your post makes sense, some of it doesn't make any sense. As you are implying that the 3-1 is more like a 4 in attack, with emphasis on the DMs to create.

 

[ZAF3000]

One of the points of this formation is to allow the defensive midfielders to solely defend, hassle, intercept and play very simple passes to any of the three attacking midfielders. Its the attacking midfielders' job, to find space, to receive the ball and to create, NOT the job of the Defensive midfielders. Momo, Melo, Marchisio, Poulsen...all are capable of hassling, intercepting, covering and making very simple passes. Its up to the 3 in front of them to make space and move the team from Defence to Offence. That is the point of this formation. It simplifies the job of the defensive midfielders. It fails to work when the offensive trio dont find space, or station themselves too far up the field, forcing the 2 DMs to move forward or try passes which are beyond their ken...

DP is not even nearly fit yet. So his inclusion, despite Ciro's disastrous selection on Wednesday, should be overlooked for now. A striker especially needs to gain match sharpness before being started...When fit, indeed, he can be useful, but only in the front line, just off the main striker, which means a 2 in attack. He lacks the strength and pace and stamina to play as any of the attacking 3. The skill he has, without a doubt. but that isn't enough without the other required attributes.

So whilst some of your post makes sense, some of it doesn't make any sense. As you are implying that the 3-1 is more like a 4 in attack, with emphasis on the DMs to create.

Yes if you are playing 1 DM but not 2. When you start playing 2 DMs who are not capable of passing the ball you paralyze the formation and thats one of the things that we are suffering from.

 

[El Santo]

"Every time Momo plays, we win"

I guess, it was only a myth.:frown:

 

[Lo-Pan]

Defensive midfielders defend, intercept, hassle, cover...play it simple to the more attack minded midfielders who weave their web of black magic. Basic duties.

if we play Defensive midfielders and expect one of them to play like Pirlo, that is a serious coaching error. besides which, having THREE attacking midfielders in front of them, surely, is enough for them to find a Juve offensive player everytime they have the ball, unless the attacking 3 are poorly positioned, exceptionally well marked, or unfit.

Also..the point of having TWO Defensive midfielders, is that the area they can cover is expanded, widened, allowing the fullbacks, hopefully one at a time, to laucn themselves up the flanks to support the attacks...I have seen Momo do the job singlehandedly. And it can work. Should be easier with two...these are the IDEALS of the 4-2-3-1. Width is needed, as the lone striker is often a target man, who is useful in the air...Trez, Iaq, Amauri...all fit this category.

We have three potentialy high quality DMS (Marchisio/Momo/Melo)...two potentially world class AMS (camo/Diego), one of whom is more winger than naturally central...two world class defenders (canna/Chiell)...a world class GK...and capable attackers, though only Trez has any truly world class quality about him, in terms of finishing.

Those are the players we should be building the team around.