[CL] Bordeaux 2-0 Juventus, Nov 25th, 2009 (1 Viewer)

[v1rtu4l]

I may be wrong here, but wasn't it Amauri "marking" the scorer on the 1st goal?

you are right ... my stream was blurry but flowing so i have mistaken amauri for caceres (because of the long hair). i just rewatched the scene and i saw it was amauri ... so ok, caceres did only have his hands on one goal =)

 

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[kistb]

Grade player's efforts in the game
http://www.voteplayers.com/Matches/Girondins-de-Bordeaux-vs-Juventus-11252009-6309.aspx

 

[giovanotti]

I honestly hope Bayern kicks us out and we get a new, quality coach to take over during the winter break. I'm sorry but Ciro doesn't cut it and if he survives the Bayern game, we're in for a huge humiliation in the second round. Just looking at the teams we can get is terrifying. Better start to reconstruct immediately and with a new coach and no CL, we might even have a shot of challenging for the title.

Vlatko ,just one quetsion for you,if we make a place for another qoach,hopefully agood one,who would that be?
(Please avoid Guus Hidink because he is not available and he won't be,and Prandelli who is doing miracles with Fiorentina).

 

[Stephan]

With Ciro or not. Qualifying to the knockouts is a must. Too much money is involved to come out with statements like i cant beg it. Besides, if we fail then we have to start playing on Thursday nights in the UFO cup. And i dont want that.

 

[Vinman]

The only quality aspect of this game (from a Juve fan perspective) was the quality of the stream as far as I am concerned; too bad our performance didn't mirror that of the good stream I had.

Appalling, abysmal, disgusting, listless, and shameful are all words I can use to describe this performance. Kudos to Bordeaux for playing the game the way they did; judging by the performance of both teams, you'd think that Bordeaux were the ones in need of the result, and not vice versa. We never showed up; in fact, we seemed bothered even being there. No spirit, guts, or determination. Misplaced passes, and our 2 midfield destroyers seemed like midfield souffles, being battered around by Bordeaux players.

Notes from this game:

1) Melo needs to see the bench for a long time. Given their current form, I would start Poulsen over him anyday.

2) Our Fullbacks are nothing special, and with the mediocrity that they represent we stand no chance of winning anything.

3) Amauri needs better service, otherwise he can't score.

4) Camoranesi needs to be more mature in vital games; he almost got sent off yesterday. In fact, he deserved to be sent off.

5) Diego was invisible, but I can't really blame him when the supporting cast was piss poor.

6) Del Piero should never start on the left. He is not a winger. He is slow and old, and therefore sticking him on the left renders him useless. If we must stick to the 4-2-3-1, then drop Del Piero to the bench.

1/3 of the season has gone by, and we have yet to see a consistent and convincing Juve. We can't string 3 passes together against inferior opposition, and we have scraped by in many games. I don't expect us to win or challenge for anything this season, unless drastic changes are introduced over the winter mercato. We keep making fun of Milan, but at least they have a distinct style of play; they may concede a lot of goals, but at least they play football, a brand of football that is entertaining to watch. Inter are boring, but at least they are consistent and pragmatic in Serie A; they still have to transfer that kind of attitude to the CL. I, for one, hope they don't. Fiorentina lack focus and concentration, but at least they play football. As for us, we are disgusting to watch both in Serie A and Europe, and based on our performances in the CL are the weakest of the Italian representatives thus far.

I tried to give + rep, but it says I have to spread it around before giving you more...sorry bro, but your post is spot on !!

 

[Dostoevsky]

Revolution time.

 

[giovanotti]

With Ciro or not. Qualifying to the knockouts is a must. Too much money is involved to come out with statements like i cant beg it. Besides, if we fail then we have to start playing on Thursday nights in the UFO cup. And i dont want that.

Very true it's all about money.

 

[ZAF3000]

We cannot play with 1 striker. When we do so we won't be pushing the opponents players back enough. I honestly believe a modified 4-3-1-2 in a 4-4-2 diamond midfield maybe our best option.
Melo and Sissoko are not good passers to be paired, Sissoko can play next to Tiago, Marchisio this way he can do the dirty work while his partner (Tiago or Marchisio) can concentrate in delivering the passes.
We lost alot when Nedved retired, he was capable of playing both as AM and LM. Thats what made him so successful during the Lippi era because he used to start at the left and go the center or vice versa. Additionally, he had defensive capabilities.

Dropping Del Piero because we want to play 4-2-3-1 one is not sane. We need him so much on the field, thats why we need to play with two strikers up front. And yes, there is nothing wrong to adapt your formation depending on your players. We have the players to do a 4-3-1-2 or a diamond 4-4-2 lets stick to that. 4-2-3-1 makes us look so immature. With Marchisio back in action there is absolutely no reason not to play 4-3-1-2
During Defense:

Buffon
Cacesras Cannavaro Chiellini Grosso
Camoranesi Sissoko Marchisio
Diego
Amauri Del Piero​

And during attack

Buffon
Cacesras Cannavaro Chiellini Grosso
Sissoko
Camoranesi Diego Marchisio
Amauri Del Piero​

With the full backs pushing forward.

This is very close to how the Diamond 4-4-2 works.

Giovinco and Del Piero will rotate on the Assistant Striker position, while Amauri/Trezeguet/Iaquinta on the striker and if needed they may cover for assistant striker.
Giovinco and Del Piero can also cover for Diego if needed.

The LM/RM can be covered by Camoranesi, Tiago, Marchisio, and De Cegli. Camoranesi and Tiago are the weakest defensively thats why I would not pair them together unless it was definitely necessary.

The DM: Melo, Sissoko and Poulsen. The three are not great passers, although recently Poulsen has shown some hope. Thats why it would be a midfield suicide to pair any of the three.

LB: Grosso/Molinaro
RB: Caceras/Grygera/Zebina
CB: Cannavaro/Chiellini/Legro

 

[giovanotti]

We cannot play with 1 striker. When we do so we won't be pushing the opponents players back enough. I honestly believe a modified 4-3-1-2 in a 4-4-2 diamond midfield maybe our best option.
Melo and Sissoko are not good passers to be paired, Sissoko can play next to Tiago, Marchisio this way he can do the dirty work while his partner (Tiago or Marchisio) can concentrate in delivering the passes.
We lost alot when Nedved retired, he was capable of playing both as AM and LM. Thats what made him so successful during the Lippi era because he used to start at the left and go the center or vice versa. Additionally, he had defensive capabilities.

Dropping Del Piero because we want to play 4-2-3-1 one is not sane. We need him so much on the field, thats why we need to play with two strikers up front. And yes, there is nothing wrong to adapt your formation depending on your players. We have the players to do a 4-3-1-2 or a diamond 4-4-2 lets stick to that. 4-2-3-1 makes us look so immature. With Marchisio back in action there is absolutely no reason not to play 4-3-1-2
During Defense:

Buffon
Cacesras Cannavaro Chiellini Grosso
Camoranesi Sissoko Marchisio
Diego
Amauri Del Piero​

And during attack

Buffon
Cacesras Cannavaro Chiellini Grosso
Sissoko
Camoranesi Diego Marchisio
Amauri Del Piero​

With the full backs pushing forward.

This is very close to how the Diamond 4-4-2 works.

Giovinco and Del Piero will rotate on the Assistant Striker position, while Amauri/Trezeguet/Iaquinta on the striker and if needed they may cover for assistant striker.
Giovinco and Del Piero can also cover for Diego if needed.

The LM/RM can be covered by Camoranesi, Tiago, Marchisio, and De Cegli. Camoranesi and Tiago are the weakest defensively thats why I would not pair them together unless it was definitely necessary.

The DM: Melo, Sissoko and Poulsen. The three are not great passers, although recently Poulsen has shown some hope. Thats why it would be a midfield suicide to pair any of the three.

LB: Grosso/Molinaro
RB: Caceras/Grygera/Zebina
CB: Cannavaro/Chiellini/Legro

Soon you'll get +rep because I need to spread some first.
A lot of what you said is the pure truth.

 

[Vinman]

Revolution time.

you better call Fidel, because I dont think you'll be able to contact Che :evil:

 

[Enron]

I guess that would work, probably becoming the 4-3-1-2 anyway because Diego will come back for the ball. I'm not sure if Bayern will have any of their two terrorists in the squad, but if they have both we might have to tweak that lineup a little and add Poulsen.

And yeah, Buffon probably needs a rest...

That part was a joke.

 

[ZAF3000]

The problems with 4-2-3-1 is:

Buffon
Caceras Cannavaro Chiellini Grosso
Sissoko Melo
Camoranesi Diego Giovinco
Amauri​

This formation relies ALOT on the following:
1- DMs must intercept during defense
2- DMs must transfer the team from defense to offense

Now although our DMs can do the "1" they definitely cannot do the "2"

3- The formation relies on Fullbacks continuously pushing forward:
We are already very weak on this department.

4- The whole point of this formation is to have 3 players behind the striker who can change positions between each other to give more creativity.
In fairness sake on paper the three players can do the job. ONLY IF they had a proper DMs and Full backs who can deliver the ball to them.
Another problem with this formation is that if one of those three players (Diego, Camoranesi and Giovinco) is injured/Suspended there is no cover for him, except for Diego who can be replaced by Del Piero. Giovinco and Camo are playing too wide and upfront for any of our midfield or attackers to accommodate.

5- Where will Del Piero play?
Call me old fashioned, call me Del Piero biased, or even Del Piero's C*** sucker, I honestly don't care. But the truth is, he is one of our most influential players and not playing him when he's ready is utter madness. Other teams envy us for having and some here are debating that we should not field him because he cannot play in a 4-2-3-1 system??

6- Because of the nature of the "3" in 4-2-3-1 the full backs are more exposed that usual. That would be a problem if we had top notch full backs but we don't. The good thing about the flat 4-4-2 system in the past two years is that it covered are full back defensively.

7- With the problems mentioned taken into consideration, playing a lone striker won't put enough pressure on the opponent --> more pressure on our midfield and full backs (who obviously cannot handle it) .

 

[Wahdan]

Lots of essays in this thread.

 

[Dostoevsky]

you better call Fidel, because I dont think you'll be able to contact Che :evil:

Wha...he's my pall. I'll just text him.

 

[Enron]

Isn't that essentially a 4321?

No. It's a 4-3-3 with Diego having a free role on the right and Del Pie pinching in on the left.

 

[giovanotti]

The problems with 4-2-3-1 is:

Buffon
Caceras Cannavaro Chiellini Grosso
Sissoko Melo
Camoranesi Diego Giovinco
Amauri​

This formation relies ALOT on the following:
1- DMs must intercept during defense
2- DMs must transfer the team from defense to offense

Now although our DMs can do the "1" they definitely cannot do the "2"

3- The formation relies on Fullbacks continuously pushing forward:
We are already very weak on this department.

4- The whole point of this formation is to have 3 players behind the striker who can change positions between each other to give more creativity.
In fairness sake on paper the three players can do the job. ONLY IF they had a proper DMs and Full backs who can deliver the ball to them.
Another problem with this formation is that if one of those three players (Diego, Camoranesi and Giovinco) is injured/Suspended there is no cover for him, except for Diego who can be replaced by Diego. Giovinco and Camo are playing too wide and upfront for any of our midfield or attackers to accommodate.

5- Where will Del Piero play?
Call me old fashioned, call me Del Piero biased, or even Del Piero's C*** sucker, I honestly don't care. But the truth is, he is one of our most influential players and not playing him when he's ready is utter madness. Other teams envy us for having and some here are debating that we should not field him because he cannot play in a 4-2-3-1 system??

6- Because of the nature of the "3" in 4-2-3-1 the full backs are more exposed that usual. That would be a problem if we had top notch full backs but we don't. The good thing about the flat 4-4-2 system in the past two years is that it covered are full back defensively.

7- With the problems mentioned taken into consideration, playing a lone striker won't put enough pressure on the opponent --> more pressure on our midfield and full backs (who obviously cannot handle it) .

What do you think,if we buy a decent right back,in January, could this formation 4-2-3-1 survive anyhow ?

 

[Enron]

All the right back needs be able to do in that formation is provide stability to the central defenders. It's Grosso's responsibility to support the midfield (unless of course he stays back). Otherwise the cb's get strung out.

You guys don't need an out and out attacking fullback for the right.

 

[ZAF3000]

What do you think,if we buy a decent right back,in January, could this formation 4-2-3-1 survive anyhow ?

Why even bother? We could play 4-4-2 diamond or a flexible 4-3-1-2.. We need to play with 2 forwards. Ever since I started watching Juventus from the late 80s. I cannot remember a time when we were consistently playing well with a lone striker up front.

 

[Enron]

Why even bother? We could play 4-4-2 diamond or a flexible 4-3-1-2.. We need to play with 2 forwards. Ever since I started watching Juventus from the late 80s. I cannot remember a time when we were consistently playing well with a lone striker up front.

The Diamond would be awesome, just have to watch out for when teams pack the middle on you. Has Ciro even tried a 4-4-2 diamond?

 

[ZAF3000]

The Diamond would be awesome, just have to watch out for when teams pack the middle on you. Has Ciro even tried a 4-4-2 diamond?

Nope. The closest thing was a non-flexible 4-3-1-2 where diego was asked to do everything on the "1". Which caught Roma by surprise but then teams started to mark Diego well.