Charlie Hebdo massacre - 2015-Jan-07 (14 Viewers)

[swag]

One of the reasons why I'm always so annoyingly optimistic. I always try to be friendly and sincere. The hardest thing to do is not stay mad at something no matter the reason.

True Example: One of my brothers stopped talking to me because I married a Muslim. (him, his wife, my two nephews and niece). He is a bible thumper which obviously "conflicted" with his beliefs to the point where he no longer talks to me. Didn't even call me on my birthday on Jan 2nd. Interestingly enough, I was mad at him for a day or two after our argument and told him I forgave him and God will be the judge. I hit him with a few of his own bible verses to shut him up, such as, it isn't his place to judge, only God can judge. And instead of praying for me and my new family, he decides to judge, accuse and label which is directly opposite of Christ's teachings. I called him out on his hypocrisy and haven't heard from him sense. In my own path with God I prayed for him and God's will to be done regardless of how I felt and moved on. Moral of the story, it takes a unique individual in my opinion to be able to do that.

As annoying as I might be, especially in this thread, because I'm always trying to learn different points of view from everyone scattered all around the world but once thing I am certain of: the world needs a little bit more forgiveness.

It's strange: I called him and wish him a happy bday on his bday, called to say merry christmas, stopped by his house even and he barely said a word only because he didn't have a choice because I was standing right there. Called him when I heard he broke his foot (called him twice actually). I've made the effort to forgive and move on and try to rebuild the bridge.

Keep in mind, this is my oldest brother, 40 now, I think...he is the one I was supposed to go to for help with lifes issues cuz he has been through it all...and now, a newly wed and soon to be new father he abandons is little bro.

Sucks, but what can you do? My conscience is clean and THAT I can take to my grave. Not sure he can. Forgiveness is hard.

That sucks. But it's not unheard of. People will hoist their expectations on you of choices in religion, race, sexual orientation, etc that suit them - as if they could care less about you. But there's where you have to draw a line about what you are willing to accept and what you're not willing to bend on because it's your lift, not your brother's.

Forgiveness is liberating, don't get me wrong, and it means a lot outside the courtroom, but it's more a personal way of coping with having been wronged. When you shout it in the public, and precisely because there's no legal power to it, it suddenly becomes a meaningless gesture which, in this case, has more of an arrogant and belittling (rather than a liberating peaceful) tone to it (a picture I assume of Mohammad implying that we forgive Islam and Muslims). Regarding Maddy's point that we have to accept co-existence, this horrifying ideology is not possible to co-exist with and is absolutely not influenced by such a supposedly peaceful (which I highly doubt) message of forgiveness.

I don't get the legal power angle here. A cartoonist for a magazine just had several of his fellow coworkers executed publicly, and he's not allowed to make a statement as to whether he forgives the killers or not because it requires legal powers?

Sorry, I guess I really don't understand you here is all. Maybe it's cultural or I'm just bad at English today.

 

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[Cheesio]

Dieudonné placed under home surveillance and being accused of Terrorism Apology ( WTF is this crime )

 

[Fr3sh]

One of the reasons why I'm always so annoyingly optimistic. I always try to be friendly and sincere. The hardest thing to do is not stay mad at something no matter the reason.

True Example: One of my brothers stopped talking to me because I married a Muslim. (him, his wife, my two nephews and niece). He is a bible thumper which obviously "conflicted" with his beliefs to the point where he no longer talks to me. Didn't even call me on my birthday on Jan 2nd. Interestingly enough, I was mad at him for a day or two after our argument and told him I forgave him and God will be the judge. I hit him with a few of his own bible verses to shut him up, such as, it isn't his place to judge, only God can judge. And instead of praying for me and my new family, he decides to judge, accuse and label which is directly opposite of Christ's teachings. I called him out on his hypocrisy and haven't heard from him sense. In my own path with God I prayed for him and God's will to be done regardless of how I felt and moved on. Moral of the story, it takes a unique individual in my opinion to be able to do that.

As annoying as I might be, especially in this thread, because I'm always trying to learn different points of view from everyone scattered all around the world but once thing I am certain of: the world needs a little bit more forgiveness.

It's strange: I called him and wish him a happy bday on his bday, called to say merry christmas, stopped by his house even and he barely said a word only because he didn't have a choice because I was standing right there. Called him when I heard he broke his foot (called him twice actually). I've made the effort to forgive and move on and try to rebuild the bridge.

Keep in mind, this is my oldest brother, 40 now, I think...he is the one I was supposed to go to for help with lifes issues cuz he has been through it all...and now, a newly wed and soon to be new father he abandons is little bro.

Sucks, but what can you do? My conscience is clean and THAT I can take to my grave. Not sure he can. Forgiveness is hard.

It's hardest when its within the family, hopefully he'll wise soon and see past these limitations he's setting on himself. In the meanwhile keep what you are doing never turn you back on family, stay strong brother man.

 

[Seven]

I don't buy that for one minute. Holy wars are people justifying their actions and deeds with divine inspiration. It's rarely the other way around.

Just look up David Koresh. A death cult is a death cult, and it should be treated as such. Religion is just finding the right words and interpretations to justify yourselves as if you've been ordained by the gods. Fox News does this all the time.



Naw. Didn't see the press coverage.

Knowing Hebdo, I am sure there is an arrogance behind it. But that would be true no matter what their response would be to having 8 staffers executed. Did you expect something different? That suddenly the paper would say, "We were wrong to offend other people and now we're packing up our pencils and going to make Garfield cartoons"??

A little bit of class instead of self glorification would be apt. The press conference was sickening. It could only have been worse if the cartoonist had been masturbating.

I don't quite understand who they are forgiving. Terrorists? Makes absolutely no sense. What happened in Paris comes from a sickening ideology followers of which would certainly not even ask for forgiveness. Not to mention that the symbolic nature of the message (it has no jurisdiction, not really sure if I'm using the correct term) makes it even more absurd if aimed at those who attacked and killed. I don't really think they mean terrorists. So who then? Muslims? It's distasteful, arrogant and void of any value then. They either say that they are forgiving an ideology which kills for a cartoon (which is ridiculous at best) or they are implying to forgive a large number of people who have neither committed nor supported the crime which is disgusting.

The lack of common decency in these people is shocking. Of course killing them because of the cartoons was not right and is to be condemned and punished. But their vanity and arrogance knows no boundaries, even when or especially when some of their coworkers have just been killed.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't get the legal power angle here. A cartoonist for a magazine just had several of his fellow coworkers executed publicly, and he's not allowed to make a statement as to whether he forgives the killers or not because it requires legal powers?

Sorry, I guess I really don't understand you here is all. Maybe it's cultural or I'm just bad at English today.

I think it's cultural. You are taking this gesture at face value. And because forgiveness is a nice thing, you admire their reaction. But this isn't about forgiveness at all. It's about vanity and arrogance and instead of truly forgiving it's kicking people in the face.

 

[Raz]

Do you guys think these killings were really because of the cartoons? No other agenda?

 

[Salvo]

It's obviously political as well.

 

[Maddy]

Zizek on the Paris Attacks. A really good read.

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-a...re-are-worst-really-full-passionate-intensity

 

[Klovn]

Aljazeera asked if muslims should apologize to the world for the Charlie Hebdo massacre!

Why should we? This has nothing to do with Islam, the idiots who did this are not muslims, no matter how hard they believe they are and that goes for the brainwashed idiots groups like IS & Al Qaeda aswell.

 

[Seven]

Do you guys think these killings were really because of the cartoons? No other agenda?

Of course there is an other agenda. But they were selected as a target because of the cartoons.

 

[Salvo]

This is pretty good.

 

[king Ale]

Why should we? This has nothing to do with Islam, the idiots who did this are not muslims, no matter how hard they believe they are and that goes for the brainwashed idiots groups like IS & Al Qaeda aswell.

It has nothing to do with Muslims who had nothing to do with what happened to Charlie Hebdo, they should not be feeling apologetic (I can't possibly stress enough how stupid it is to expect them to be ashamed, embarrassed or responsible even though many of those I know are indeed embarrassed and feel helpless as to what they should do. Muslims are themselves the biggest victims of these barbaric interpretations of Islam). However, it indeed has to do with Islam and its absolute vagueness of instructions and susceptibility to the freakiest and most inhuman interpretations. It's really on Islamic scholars to do something about that and imo, it's gonna take a long time for something substantial to take place in that regard. In the meantime, if only wealthy criminals in west and their friends in the middle east would stop contributing to the spread of this disease by funding and arming it.

 

[Salvo]

French comedian Dieudonne has been arrested after writing a Facebook comment suggesting he sympathised with Amedy Coulibaly, a judicial source says.

What is the logic in arresting him?
Hasn't the whole of France just protested for free speech?

 

[JuveJay]

What is the logic in arresting him?
Hasn't the whole of France just protested for free speech?

Free speech is obviously a myth, when you have a constitution and laws. I guess free speech without being murdered is the angle

I feel like this guy is just an attention whore anyway.

 

[Salvo]

Yeah totally, I am not agreeing with him..Just questioning the logic.

 

[Enron]

What is the logic in arresting him?
Hasn't the whole of France just protested for free speech?

They also banned the burqa and hajib. So no France does not give a fuck out freedom of speech. They care about French freedom of speech. Nazi pigs.

 

[Salvo]

 

[Enron]

I was reading an article about all the right wing groups coming our of the woodwork recently, so it looks like we should be practicing that phrase.

 

[Seven]

Free speech is obviously a myth, when you have a constitution and laws. I guess free speech without being murdered is the angle

I feel like this guy is just an attention whore anyway.

Free speech is not a myth. But it sometimes conflicts with other rights and those rights can be just as valuable. In order to have them co-exist, free speech must sometimes be limited.

They also banned the burqa and hajib. So no France does not give a fuck out freedom of speech. They care about French freedom of speech. Nazi pigs.

France has some very strict limitations regarding free speech. Dieudonné's arrest looks to be quite questionable to say the least. But from a practical point of view it does make sense. The last thing you need now is people inciting hatred. I only ask myself if Dieudonné would have had as much attention if they hadn't arrested him.

 

[swag]

I think it's cultural. You are taking this gesture at face value. And because forgiveness is a nice thing, you admire their reaction. But this isn't about forgiveness at all. It's about vanity and arrogance and instead of truly forgiving it's kicking people in the face.

I didn't see the press conference. I wouldn't be surprised if those guys masturbated at all meetings.

But you had to have considered that in their own arrogance, they think they are well in the right in their actions. That within a large Western culture in this modern era (they are not publishing in Egypt), the freedom of speech trumps any perceived slight that might seem unreasonable or out of touch with modernity. Not that I agree with them, but you have to imagine that anyone telling them that drawing cartoons can be so hurtful -- especially when it's their visual language since they were children and that they aren't exactly rendering Muhammad as an evil villain or a fool -- is outright wrong and needs to "modernize" and conform to their perspective.

I'm sure those guys are still mind-fucked that anything seemingly as innocent as rendering a real, historical figure in a cartoon -- even if in a positive light -- could be so incendiary for some people. Backing down from that instinct of drawing-as-an-innocent-act would be incongruous with their beliefs. To them, they probably cannot envision a pluralistic society where reactions like that are considered reasonable -- any more than many Muslim societies today think that women's rights, gays who aren't killed for being who they are, or atheists are reasonable.

 

[Enron]

Free speech is not a myth. But it sometimes conflicts with other rights and those rights can be just as valuable. In order to have them co-exist, free speech must sometimes be limited.



France has some very strict limitations regarding free speech. Dieudonné's arrest looks to be quite questionable to say the least. But from a practical point of view it does make sense. The last thing you need now is people inciting hatred. I only ask myself if Dieudonné would have had as much attention if they hadn't arrested him.

Excuses Europe, always excuses.