Champions League 2019/20 (40 Viewers)

[Hist]

Yeah I get that, but to the extent that the original statement was made we’d actually be buying THE best players in the league. Like Bayern routinely do, and that’s where it was wrong. We’d have had K2, Icardi, SMS etc over the last few years.

Again if we had that same clout then why aren’t we plucking Zaniolo? Especially when it comes to home based talent. Do you think Bayern would just sit there and let a German equivalent pass by? Not a chance. Just take a look through history and the fact that they TOOK Matthäus from Gladbach and Ballack from Leverkusen. Even if he’s not at that level yet, okay then- Goretzka.

Sometimes, Bayern even forego the need for such players; they simply suck the ability to fight from their domestic competitors. (Merits of that are debatable but it certainly doesn’t hamper their European performance)

Juve clearly don’t do that, and given the barbed attitude of Italian clubs towards Juve, we can’t do that. Would Inter bend over to be pillaged as routinely as BVB (historically BuLi’s second best club) do? I think not.

Again, the original statement was made with such brashness, (even if the poster toned down that with each reply): if it was 2020 we’d have a first dibs on Marquinhos. It’s simply not true in the way it is for Bayern because of Zaniolo, ad infinitum.

Historically back when Inter and Milan were big clubs I agree but its very hard to make the same case now/since the Allegri Era where the structure of the league became somewhat similar to the Bundesliga with Juve being clearly dominant and ten times as wealthy as everyone else. I am not sure who K2 is but Higuain and Pjanic were the best players in the league (outside of Juve) when we got them. Bernardeschi was the kind of player Zaniolo is now and fiorentina hates us. We were even close to getting Icardi a few times.

Who knows if we ever seriously went after SMS or if Lazio's asking price was too high for all clubs including ourselves. Dont forget that neither us nor anyone has been able to take him from Lazio thus far and if he does leave we all expect it to be a crazy amount. Its unlikely this is an anti-juve thing he is just valued too highly by Lazio that even United refused to pay up. Marquinhos went to PSG for mega money at the time, ofcourse they'll sell to the non-rival with the better offer over us. A german club would have done the same they are not idiots.

Moreover, Bayern doesnt buy every good player or star in the league they leave many behind and many end up elsewhere in Europe. They didnt get Vidal back in the day, they didnt get Naby Kieta or Werner, they never got Reus nor Brandt nor Havertz and probably wont get Sancho. Like I said, there is a wealth of talent in the bundesliga that simply doesnt exist in Serie A and so as the top team there by a distance they will more often buy from that pool of talent. We have a much smaller group to pick from and there is no evidence of price discrimination against Juve. I am sure if there were so many super promising young players killing it in Serie A we would snatch one or two of them like Bayern does but there just isnt.

 

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[Akshen]

Historically back when Inter and Milan were big clubs I agree but its very hard to make the same case now/since the Allegri Era where the structure of the league became somewhat similar to the Bundesliga with Juve being clearly dominant and ten times as wealthy as everyone else. I am not sure who K2 is but Higuain and Pjanic were the best players in the league (outside of Juve) when we got them. Bernardeschi was the kind of player Zaniolo is now and fiorentina hates us. We were even close to getting Icardi a few times.

Who knows if we ever seriously went after SMS or if Lazio's asking price was too high for all clubs including ourselves. Dont forget that neither us nor anyone has been able to take him from Lazio thus far and if he does leave we all expect it to be a crazy amount. Its unlikely this is an anti-juve thing he is just valued too highly by Lazio that even United refused to pay up. Marquinhos went to PSG for mega money at the time, ofcourse they'll sell to the non-rival with the better offer over us. A german club would have done the same they are not idiots.

Moreover, Bayern doesnt buy every good player or star in the league they leave many behind and many end up elsewhere in Europe. They didnt get Vidal back in the day, they didnt get Naby Kieta or Werner, they never got Reus nor Brandt nor Havertz and probably wont get Sancho. Like I said, there is a wealth of talent in the bundesliga that simply doesnt exist in Serie A and so as the top team there by a distance they will more often buy from that pool of talent. We have a much smaller group to pick from and there is no evidence of price discrimination against Juve. I am sure if there were so many super promising young players killing it in Serie A we would snatch one or two of them like Bayern does but there just isnt.

Bayern buys guys who wants to play there and fits their team. They created a great team for quite low funds, but the key for them was buying younger players, who even if fail still have resale value. Look at Renato Sanches for example, it was a big blunder, but still got some millions back - this is also thanks to right salary strategy, Juve would give him 4m+ and there would be no way, team like Lille buys him.

 

[Xperd]

When Dortmund were competing with Bayern for the title, they plain refused to sell their best players to them. They were desperate to sell Lewa to Real Madrid but Lewa only wanted Bayern and eventually signed up on a free transfer. Götze had a release clause.
Similarly, Schalke were desperate to sell Neuer to Man United but Neuer blocked the move as he only wanted Bayern. Goretzka was a free transfer as well.
It is not as straightforward as people think.

Add to the fact that Bayern are the only elite club in Germany where talented players can aspire to have a half decent career at a top team. Even in this case, the situation has changed. German players are more open to the idea of playing abroad these days. There are plenty of them playing for top Spanish and English clubs.

And you just can't deny the fact that as a result of our dominance, we are somewhat in that Bayern-esque situation. For example, negotiating with Fiorentina was unheard of but we paid up and they were happy to sell Bernardeschi. You'd bet your ass they would be happy to sell Chiesa if we pay up. If Juve and the rest of Serie A were broke, Kulusevski, probably the best emerging talent of the league would have ended up playing in the EPL instead of Juventus. Same can be said for Dybala. (Hence why I quoted the Alexis Sanchez example in my previous post)

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Yes Juve have it harder than Bayern for obvious reasons but a lot if it is overstated imo. For me a lot of it boils down to economics. If Juventus have the means and they deem said player worthy, we'll definitely make an effort to sign that player.

 

[Juve92]

We all know this, nothing new. They won because all the other top teams choked, now stop overpraising those nazis.

 

[delpiero1986]

Of course we will.

you are very optimistic

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Yes.

i think our problem is that we are obsessed to win this, like city and psg.
You have to win it in the natural way like barca, real, bayern and milan did it.

 

[Jethro]

 

[Elvin]

you are very optimistic

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i think our problem is that we are obsessed to win this, like city and psg.
You have to win it in the natural way like barca, real, bayern and milan did it.

Bayern 2013, Milan 2007 and Real 2014 did it in an obsessive way tho.

 

[Alex-444]

better than sex?

 

[james95]

Bayern 2013, Milan 2007 and Real 2014 did it in an obsessive way tho.

You could even say Real in 2018 did it in an obsessive way too as they were way out of the title race in the league so would routinely rest every key player just for the CL.

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When Dortmund were competing with Bayern for the title, they plain refused to sell their best players to them. They were desperate to sell Lewa to Real Madrid but Lewa only wanted Bayern and eventually signed up on a free transfer.

Lewa’s dream was actually always to play for Real Madrid but Real didn’t show any significant interest until his final season at Dortmund when he already had a gentleman agreement to sign for Bayern at the end of the season. He was strongly linked to Real again around 2017 but I think they passed as he was nearing 30 by that point.

 

[Juve92]

better than sex?

This guy is so unlikeable, he can thank corona for that CL trophy.

 

[Alen]

Thanks!

The point stands, we get what we want from Italian clubs... there just isnt much to get. Zaniolo and Tonali... we can probably have them if we want they are just not that good (yet?). Bundesliga had a better pool of talent for Bayern to leverage.

This is true, but like I said yesterday, Bayern does not have any competitors on the market among the Bundesliga teams.
Dybala was a super talent from Palermo. If he played in Kaiserslautern and was the league's top young talent, he'd have ended up in Bayern, with the rest not even trying, while Juve will always have to outbid or end up in a bidding war with Inter or Milan. We did end up getting Dybala, but for the next Dybala we might miss out due to Inter outbidding us and Milano being a nicer city to live.
Now it's an open market and unlike 10 or more years ago, teams from France, England or Spain get involved in bidding for top young talent in serie A and Bundesliga. But being a big team in the domestic league still has advantages and due to the connections with owners, agents and so on, unless being badly outbid by PSG or Real, the big teams in Italy in Germany still have dibs on the younger talents in their leagues. But Bayern are the only such team in Germany, while in Italy Juve have to fight bids from Milan, Inter, even Napoli.

 

[piotrr]

This guy is so unlikeable, he can thank corona for that CL trophy.

Yep, thank god we have that nice dad-bod likeable guy Higgy here instead of him.

 

[Xperd]

Bayern 2013, Milan 2007 and Real 2014 did it in an obsessive way tho.

CL DNA ?

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On a serious note, Milan 2003-07, Bayern 2011-13, Real 2013-18, these are some of the best teams ever in the Champions league era. Do you think Juve between 2016-20 compares to that?
Maybe only the 2015 team can come close but this side had everything except flair and fancy and good subs off the bench.

 

[BayernFan]

This guy is so unlikeable, he can thank corona for that CL trophy.

So unlikeable of him celebrating that he just won the biggest trophy in club football, what have the world not turned into

 

[Jethro]

This guy is so unlikeable, he can thank corona for that CL trophy.

man just take a little break, this has been to much for you

 

[swag]

better than sex?

I wouldn't drink out of that thing

 

[Arcticdaly]

The Bayern horse meat diet.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

you are very optimistic

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i think our problem is that we are obsessed to win this, like city and psg.
You have to win it in the natural way like barca, real, bayern and milan did it.

We just didn't have a squad anywhere good enough to win this season or the last.

 

[BayernFan]

@Jethro

 

[LiquidPLP]

Congratz @BayernFan @Bayernstar @Jethro

I had no doubts you guys would win this. After the break Bayern and RM were my favorites for CL based on how strong they resumed their championships.

You better keep Alaba and Thiago. Both are fantastic players, you won't find better elsewhere.