Champions League 2016/2017 (61 Viewers)
- Thread starter GordoDeCentral
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Actually VG got them to a final against Inter too, I think a year before he was sacked. It was a massive failure on VG's part to lose a league to Dortmund, their team was nothing like Bayern's at the time. In fact it was a failure on Jupp's part to lose the league to them too. Winning the league is a must for Bayern, but as seen in those two seasons it isn't always as easy as it looks. Barcelona was third behind Villareal in the last season before Pep took over, yet people still said it wasn't an achievement to win the league with that Barca team, You'd think that going by your logic of comparing Pep's three seasons to only Bayern's last season, that one would say Pep massively improved Barca if compared only to their last season before he came.Though I would say in general, especially in Europe Jupp was a lot more successful than Pep, the guy got into two finals. But it was always going to be near impossible for any manager to not regress on that.
Where I differ with you on how to assess those three seasons of Pep is that I don't think its fair to compare it only to one season, especially not in a treble winning season. It will always be nothing but downhill from that season, even if Jupp stayed on.
IMO he has made Bayern super efficient in the Bundesliga, I think he is a league specialist and thats why as soon as he signed for City I predicted and still predict he'll win the league more than any other team in the next few seasons, because simply he's proven that he is a specialist against the smaller teams mostly; which is something that is very underestimated IMO.
In the CL I think its quite an achievement reaching the semi's three times in a row, it isn't a success since they never reached the final, but even Barca's golden team went 3 seasons without reaching a final. I do think he deserves a lot of blame for the manner in which his teams lost the semi's and because of that I think he could have done a little bit of a better job in the CL. To say he was a failure at Bayern is an extreme and very unfair position to take IMO, and sets the bar unrealistically high.
IMO one of his strong points is that he has a clear idea of how he wants his teams to play, sometimes that will make him a bit stubborn. Sometimes it makes him expect too much of his players with the way he wants them to be extremely flexible tactically, but that is a risk you're always going to have to take when you hire Guardiola. Like you have to take the risk of Mourinho's volatile personality when you hire him.
Where I differ with you on how to assess those three seasons of Pep is that I don't think its fair to compare it only to one season, especially not in a treble winning season. It will always be nothing but downhill from that season, even if Jupp stayed on.
IMO he has made Bayern super efficient in the Bundesliga, I think he is a league specialist and thats why as soon as he signed for City I predicted and still predict he'll win the league more than any other team in the next few seasons, because simply he's proven that he is a specialist against the smaller teams mostly; which is something that is very underestimated IMO.
In the CL I think its quite an achievement reaching the semi's three times in a row, it isn't a success since they never reached the final, but even Barca's golden team went 3 seasons without reaching a final. I do think he deserves a lot of blame for the manner in which his teams lost the semi's and because of that I think he could have done a little bit of a better job in the CL. To say he was a failure at Bayern is an extreme and very unfair position to take IMO, and sets the bar unrealistically high.
IMO one of his strong points is that he has a clear idea of how he wants his teams to play, sometimes that will make him a bit stubborn. Sometimes it makes him expect too much of his players with the way he wants them to be extremely flexible tactically, but that is a risk you're always going to have to take when you hire Guardiola. Like you have to take the risk of Mourinho's volatile personality when you hire him.
Pep was a success at Barcelona, i already mentioned that. the team underachieved in Rijkards last season (they still lost only 1-0 on aggregate in the CL SF against the best team in the world at that moment) in the league, had a terrible run of results from January, from they loss to Madrid at the Camp Nou onwards. Guardiola got a great team yes, but it takes a coach to make any team function, same goes for that Barca. later he got an, on paper, improved team each year with Ibra, Cesc, Villa, Sanchez etc and kept the level of success until beaten by Mourinhos Madrid. he then, with that kind of achievements takes over Bayern and fails to get them to even one CL final in 3 years. i already said what i had about Jupp, the Dortmund he was competing against is much superior to the Dortmund Pep competed against. Lewa, Gotze, Kagawa/Reus, Sahin/Gundogan, Hummels, a good Subotic, Kuba etc. that team was the champion the year before Heynckes took over, while Bayern barely made the CL and that mostly thanks to Hannover losing 2 of their last 3 games that season AND because Bayern sacked LVG for the last 3 games. Heynckes made them a CL finalists in his 1st year, they beat a superstrong Madrid, the strongest one in Mourinhos time there, they lost the title in a close race to Dortmund and lost the Cup final. they didnt win anything that year which is a failure for Bayern but they improved ALOT from previous year. the year after they destroyed everyone so Jupp again took them to another level. in the next 3 years under Pep they looked weaker than that team DESPITE improving the team on paper each year. 3 years without a CL final is a failure, whatever way you look at it. losing 4-0 and 3-0 to Madrid and Barca is a failure. not winning the SC (a useless competition that top clubs actually care about nowadays) even once is a failure, especially vs the likes of Wolfsburg. losing the DFB Pokal final vs Wolfsburg is a failure. and lastly but most importantly, introducing his inferior playing style to the superior one they had under Heynckes, especially since the team was built to play that way, is a failure.
long story short, he was a success at Barca, a failure at Bayern. WC coach? yes. best in the world? nope
long story short, he was a success at Barca, a failure at Bayern. WC coach? yes. best in the world? nope
For me it's enough that we agree on that. 
Its always going to be hard to prove a coach is the best in the world, there are small margins between him and the likes of Ancelotti and to a lesser extent Mourinho(I would also add Simeone to the mix to be honest). Between those coaches its like the Messi C.Ronaldo argument IMO.
Wenger of course is better than all of them put together.
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I'm missing this at work
Fuckin Mazarri better keep it tight at the back, he lost the game against Chelsea in the final few minutes.
Its always going to be hard to prove a coach is the best in the world, there are small margins between him and the likes of Ancelotti and to a lesser extent Mourinho(I would also add Simeone to the mix to be honest). Between those coaches its like the Messi C.Ronaldo argument IMO.
Wenger of course is better than all of them put together.
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I'm missing this at work
Fuckin Mazarri better keep it tight at the back, he lost the game against Chelsea in the final few minutes.
For me it's enough that we agree on that.
Its always going to be hard to prove a coach is the best in the world, there are small margins between him and the likes of Ancelotti and to a lesser extent Mourinho(I would also add Simeone to the mix to be honest). Between those coaches its like the Messi C.Ronaldo argument IMO.
Wenger of course is better than all of them put together.
- - - Updated - - -
I'm missing this at work
Fuckin Mazarri better keep it tight at the back, he lost the game against Chelsea in the final few minutes.
Its always going to be hard to prove a coach is the best in the world, there are small margins between him and the likes of Ancelotti and to a lesser extent Mourinho(I would also add Simeone to the mix to be honest). Between those coaches its like the Messi C.Ronaldo argument IMO.
Wenger of course is better than all of them put together.
- - - Updated - - -
I'm missing this at work
Fuckin Mazarri better keep it tight at the back, he lost the game against Chelsea in the final few minutes.
Ancelotti has a pretty bad league record, and I love Allegri but he shouldn't be in this discussion really.
Simone has done absolutely incredible so far, but it's a small sample size. If he continues like this, he's definitely got a case.
I don't like Guardiola or his style, but if he's gonna dominate with City there's not really an argument to place any coach above him. And no, that certainly doesn't mean that he's perfect or anything, but the other coaches aren't either.
Simone has done absolutely incredible so far, but it's a small sample size. If he continues like this, he's definitely got a case.
I don't like Guardiola or his style, but if he's gonna dominate with City there's not really an argument to place any coach above him. And no, that certainly doesn't mean that he's perfect or anything, but the other coaches aren't either.
Based of two games in which
a) no pjanic
b) pjanic regista
but wait, did we play him as a mezzala ? YES, against sassuolo, a week ago.
But zach, what was the reaction ?
That we played amazing football and absolutely trashed sassuolo with insane direct threat from the middle
But zach, am i dementing ?
Yes you are son. Get a diary
a) no pjanic
b) pjanic regista
but wait, did we play him as a mezzala ? YES, against sassuolo, a week ago.
But zach, what was the reaction ?
That we played amazing football and absolutely trashed sassuolo with insane direct threat from the middle
But zach, am i dementing ?
Yes you are son. Get a diary
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