Capital Punishment (24 Viewers)

[bianconero]

Before condemning other countries policies on imprisonment, perhaps one should take a wider view and look at the relative crime statistics: then, just maybe, revenge [a quite natural human response to crimes of violation,] and justice [that which brings the greater good to a society] can be carefully considered.

 

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[David01]

when you look at this guy in Austria who locked up his own daughter for 20 years, repeatidly raped her and doing the same with the children he had with her
I'm sorry there can be only one sentence

 

[Chxta]

I support capital punishment.

 

[Martin]

when you look at this guy in Austria who locked up his own daughter for 20 years, repeatidly raped her and doing the same with the children he had with her
I'm sorry there can be only one sentence

Revenge is human nature. Doesn't mean it makes good policy.

 

[Lion]

This isn't revenge, it's punishment.

 

[Gill_juve]

for Rape, definitely.

 

[Geof]

This isn't revenge, it's punishment.

Punishment? What the hell is the point of punishment when the guy is dead after you punished him? The whole point of punishment, IMO, is to learn something. You punish a kid because you want to learn him that it's not OK to throw his food around the place.

The only possible advantage of death penalty is the deterrent factor. Yet, all sort of studies show very contradicting results. Therefore, it's not proven to me that death penalty has a higher deterrent factor than a prison sentence. On the other side of the balance, it's proven that there have been wrongfully executed people.

Killing innocents for the sake of a supposed and unproven deterrent factor is not what I call justice.

 

[Martin]

This isn't revenge, it's punishment.

No, it's revenge. Suppose you break into a house and steal some stuff. You get caught, the court finds you guilty. Does the court break into your house to steal your stuff to "show you what it's like"? No, they send you to jail. Suppose you are caught drunk driving. Does the court sentence you to be a passenger in a car with a drunk driver? No, you go to jail. Suppose you rape someone, does the court sentence you to be raped? No, you go to jail.

We send people to jail for two reasons. To punish them by isolating them from society. And to protect society by taking these people off the streets. As Geof points out, "punishment by death" is absurd, because punishment is about teaching someone to act a certain way. If you kill them or torture them, it's not punishment, it's revenge.

Don't get me wrong, it's human to thirst for blood and revenge. But you shouldn't give in to your base instincts, it's not what civilization is built on. You should ask yourself what should we do with this person to promote civilization, not "when I get my hands on him, I will...". Yes, no doubt you would. But justice is not a tool for you to exert your revenge.

 

[HelterSkelter]

Though if you're talking about Revenge and Punishment,you also need in to consider Justice.

 

[Martin]

Though if you're talking about Revenge and Punishment,you also need in to consider Justice.

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but justice can be had only in some cases. If someone robs you the court can make him pay you the same amount, and you got back everything you lost. Not so with crimes of violence or psychological abuse, there's no way to recompense that. Sad as it is, you'll never have justice, all you can have is revenge. Which is a way to extract the maximum amount of pain, but it doesn't restore your damage at all. Therefore it's not productive at all.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

you keep overlooking the reoffense curbing value as well as the preemeptive psychological effect of punishment.

The debate is and will always be surrounding personal liberties and society's safety and functionality.

 

[Martin]

you keep overlooking the reoffense curbing value as well as the preemeptive psychological effect of punishment.

The debate is and will always be surrounding personal liberties and society's safety and functionality.

Lifetime imprisonment pretty much guarantees that reoffence doesn't happen, don't you think? (At least not outside jail itself.)

As to your second point about preemption, I assume you mean discouragement to other potential offenders. Once again there is much debate whether it even works.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

trust me when i see guys "dropping the soap" in jail i really dont want be in there

 

[Martin]

trust me when i see guys "dropping the soap" in jail i really dont want be in there

....which would imply that the risk of jail is sufficient discouragement in itself?

 

[GordoDeCentral]

we are talking in genenral, about punishment and its effectiveness; as for capital punishment the real punishment is not death itself it is the ultimate stripping of freedom-an ultimate jail if you will; where one knows exactly where when and how they will die and not be able to do anything about it. A thought they might ruminate for years in some cases.

 

[Martin]

we are talking in genenral, about punishment and its effectiveness; as for capital punishment the real punishment is not death itself it is the ultimate stripping of freedom-an ultimate jail if you will; where one knows exactly where when and how they will die and not be able to do anything about it. A thought they might ruminate for years in some cases.

I wouldn't call that punishment, I would call it torture. Or at least a psychological equivalent of it. Punishment is about learning a new behavior, if you punish someone it's with the intention of giving them a new chance later.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

i dont agree at all, the concept of justice is mainly concerned with restoring balance the aspect of fixing one's behavior is secondary or more a symptom of the main target which is restoring balance; expiation of wrongdoing is the key really.

 

[Martin]

i dont agree at all, the concept of justice is mainly concerned with restoring balance the aspect of fixing one's behavior is secondary or more a symptom of the main target which is restoring balance; expiation of wrongdoing is the key really.

Okay, here's an idea. We torture prisoners. For someone's who killed several people, a death sentence is peanuts and doesn't come close to "restoring balance". On the other hand, you can torture this person for decades through the best hits of what human civilization has produced in its jails, dungeons and interrogation chambers. Someone who's been through 30 years of torture is so destroyed that you do him a favor if you kill him.

How's that?

 

[David01]

you think we should lock up a mass murderer cuz the death-penalty is inhumane?
I'm not talking about running over a playing kid here but deliberatly killing
I can even understand that a person can get so angry he loses it and kills the other one, I'm not saying he should be fried
but when you talk of capital punishment I'm thinking more in the line of serial rapists, serial murderers and violent sex-offenders.
there is absolutely no chance of rehabilitating them
fry them, sitting in a jail is way too good for them

 

[Martin]

you think we should lock up a mass murderer cuz the death-penalty is inhumane?

Humans are not animals. Or shall we say some humans are not animals. Those humans do not kill other humans. Simple?

I'm not talking about running over a playing kid here but deliberatly killing
I can even understand that a person can get so angry he loses it and kills the other one, I'm not saying he should be fried
but when you talk of capital punishment I'm thinking more in the line of serial rapists, serial murderers and violent sex-offenders.
there is absolutely no chance of rehabilitating them
fry them, sitting in a jail is way too good for them

It's not about what is or isn't "too good for them". It's about what kind of standards we set for ourselves.