Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (57 Viewers)
- Thread starter gsol
- Start date
I quite understand JCK's point. No doubt this whole thing is farce and Moggi is being hard done by, and in no way am I discrediting him for being the smart contributing director he was, but for some reason, I do not believe he is entirely innocent either. I think this whole calcio business, especially in Italy is too dirty to be completely immeasurably innocent. Like many others pointed out, the issue is that this was all orchestrated to bring Juventus down, not clean the league of its crooks. That's the sad part - for if Moggi's 'guilty' surely others are too but nothing's been done.
Perhaps Juve did not stick with Moggi because there's something we don't know, or that Moggi's a liability now or a mere scapegoat. What I do not understand though is by doing that, it is almost admitting that Moggi will be found guilty, and thus Juventus. Although Juve is cleared of objective liability etc, if Moggi's guilty Juve surely would be compromised along with it, at least in the minds of people.
Whatever it is, to this day, five years on, sometimes when I think about this whole farce, and looking at the sad state of our dear club right now, I can honestly say there are moments where I am overwhelmed with both anger and sadness; that the suffering is quite measurable. Yeah some people say there's more to life, it's just football etc, but I think I'm sure people here understand the feeling. All I'm thinking of now is that clubs usually have phases of their ups and downs, and I just hope I get to see Juve when they're back on being the most feared club again.
And when that day comes.....
Perhaps Juve did not stick with Moggi because there's something we don't know, or that Moggi's a liability now or a mere scapegoat. What I do not understand though is by doing that, it is almost admitting that Moggi will be found guilty, and thus Juventus. Although Juve is cleared of objective liability etc, if Moggi's guilty Juve surely would be compromised along with it, at least in the minds of people.
Whatever it is, to this day, five years on, sometimes when I think about this whole farce, and looking at the sad state of our dear club right now, I can honestly say there are moments where I am overwhelmed with both anger and sadness; that the suffering is quite measurable. Yeah some people say there's more to life, it's just football etc, but I think I'm sure people here understand the feeling. All I'm thinking of now is that clubs usually have phases of their ups and downs, and I just hope I get to see Juve when they're back on being the most feared club again.
And when that day comes.....
I haven't trawled through the thread, but here's my take on the verdict anyway:
Moggi's whole 'all innocent or all guilty' argument was rather flawed from his personal point of view. He didn't seem to put forward a lot of evidence claiming his own innocence, focusing more on the guilt of others. So, even if he proved others were guilty, he was also still going to be found guilty himself.
However, if the evidence put forward is deemed to show the guilt or potential guilt of directors at other clubs, that could be useful to Juventus in their aim to disprove the idea that they had an exclusive relationship with the refs and designators, which was a key factor in their demotion.
Moggi's whole 'all innocent or all guilty' argument was rather flawed from his personal point of view. He didn't seem to put forward a lot of evidence claiming his own innocence, focusing more on the guilt of others. So, even if he proved others were guilty, he was also still going to be found guilty himself.
However, if the evidence put forward is deemed to show the guilt or potential guilt of directors at other clubs, that could be useful to Juventus in their aim to disprove the idea that they had an exclusive relationship with the refs and designators, which was a key factor in their demotion.
i think you both are correct...you gotta admit that juve was moggi in that time so juve going away with it and moggi sentenced is stupid, and rab needs to understand that talking to the ref designator is something wrong...not that wrong to sent us to b, but it ain't legal and ethic whatever they talked about.
The thing is I am respecting his and anyone's opinion while a few others aren't. And the fact that the word "guilty" has to be brought up is somehow strange as I said that I cannot use the word as I have no idea about anything related to the legal system in Italy and why he was judged guilty. I already explained that for me he was doing something the others were doing and that does not make it right. The accusations that he was running a system and fixing matches are all bullshit for me, I have never even mentioned them as they are obviously fabrications but still some are feeding them in my mouth.
...so can we get something from this verdict through figc? i mean the official scudetto's back
For the upteenth time, it's only stupid if you don't understand what objective liability is!
Not everything employees do should drag the employer down with them, you know..
Let's say you own a car repair shop and you hire some 18 year old kid who, when you're not looking, takes one of the cars that are in for repair out for a drive and then crashes into a crowd of people and kills a couple of them. This scenario is based on one of the many cases of objective liability I've studied in norwegian law, and the Supreme Court ruled that the employee had acted too far away from his assigned tasks to make his employer objectively liable.
I will admit to the fact that Moggi's actions were closer to his actual tasks than what this stupid kid did, so the cases can't really be compared fully, but the court in Naples still found that Juventus could not be identified with Moggi's actions.
So no, according to the Naples trial, Moggi's actions were not Juve's actions, and therefore, legally, Moggi can be found guilty while at the same time Juve can go free.
Not everything employees do should drag the employer down with them, you know..
Let's say you own a car repair shop and you hire some 18 year old kid who, when you're not looking, takes one of the cars that are in for repair out for a drive and then crashes into a crowd of people and kills a couple of them. This scenario is based on one of the many cases of objective liability I've studied in norwegian law, and the Supreme Court ruled that the employee had acted too far away from his assigned tasks to make his employer objectively liable.
I will admit to the fact that Moggi's actions were closer to his actual tasks than what this stupid kid did, so the cases can't really be compared fully, but the court in Naples still found that Juventus could not be identified with Moggi's actions.
So no, according to the Naples trial, Moggi's actions were not Juve's actions, and therefore, legally, Moggi can be found guilty while at the same time Juve can go free.
I just created a petition where I demand that the club thanks Luciano Moggi and invites him to a home game so that the fans can thank him. Help me reach the goal of 50.000 names by signing it and spreading it.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/3/moggi/
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/3/moggi/
Guys I had no access to anything yesterday and am catching up on 35 pages here.
My opinion? I’m not shocked. I said a long time ago to not get caught up in all the evidence that favored us because civil court or not, this is Italy. I remember saying that this thing would be settled by the rich and influential amidst flowing wine and cigar smoke and the verdict really supports that. Think about it. Every powerful entity involved from the police, to Juventus, Inter, FIGC, Telecom, etc walked away content and the powerless individuals were burned alive.
Some of the arguments here are a little sketchy. Juventus being cleared and Moggi being convicted will help our case in no way in terms of getting the titles back. It only means the club won’t have to pay the teams like Brescia and Bologna that were trying to sue Juventus. According to the civil court the season was still tarnished therefore the title is no closer to us than before.
Compensation? Who would pay? Clearly Moggi being absolved would have been far better for the team. That would have left the team and Moggi as well as others open to liability suits against Auricchio and eventually other parties like the FIGC, Telecom etc. Care to imagine why the court didn’t go for that?
Inter relegated and similar requests. Just stop. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. They are not on trial and will never be thanks to the statute of limitations. That ship sailed a long time ago.
UEFA and European courts are a non issue. UEFA want nothing to do with it and there are several levels of Italian courts to go through before the EU becomes possible. We are years away from that. Moggi will appeal but it has to be domestic first and with how slow the wheels turn over there, we will be reading headlines and dates regarding the appeals for another couple of years.
JCK, think what you want but don’t say that evidence confirmed Moggi’s guilt. The evidence confirmed that he made legal phone calls. Using your analogy, if you drove with traffic and one day the law changed and a recording showed that you were going with traffic in an area deemed illegal after the fact you would find it quite unfair to be condemned for it.
My opinion? I’m not shocked. I said a long time ago to not get caught up in all the evidence that favored us because civil court or not, this is Italy. I remember saying that this thing would be settled by the rich and influential amidst flowing wine and cigar smoke and the verdict really supports that. Think about it. Every powerful entity involved from the police, to Juventus, Inter, FIGC, Telecom, etc walked away content and the powerless individuals were burned alive.
Some of the arguments here are a little sketchy. Juventus being cleared and Moggi being convicted will help our case in no way in terms of getting the titles back. It only means the club won’t have to pay the teams like Brescia and Bologna that were trying to sue Juventus. According to the civil court the season was still tarnished therefore the title is no closer to us than before.
Compensation? Who would pay? Clearly Moggi being absolved would have been far better for the team. That would have left the team and Moggi as well as others open to liability suits against Auricchio and eventually other parties like the FIGC, Telecom etc. Care to imagine why the court didn’t go for that?
Inter relegated and similar requests. Just stop. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. They are not on trial and will never be thanks to the statute of limitations. That ship sailed a long time ago.
UEFA and European courts are a non issue. UEFA want nothing to do with it and there are several levels of Italian courts to go through before the EU becomes possible. We are years away from that. Moggi will appeal but it has to be domestic first and with how slow the wheels turn over there, we will be reading headlines and dates regarding the appeals for another couple of years.
JCK, think what you want but don’t say that evidence confirmed Moggi’s guilt. The evidence confirmed that he made legal phone calls. Using your analogy, if you drove with traffic and one day the law changed and a recording showed that you were going with traffic in an area deemed illegal after the fact you would find it quite unfair to be condemned for it.
In the end, fuck this shit. I’m fed up with this topic because it seems fruitless. Obviously I’ll follow it and keep hoping but I really wanted this to be it. In the end I know those titles are ours and that the FIGC will likely never acknowledge it, I know that the compensation is unlikely and that it impacts me financially in no way but it simply bothers me that the injustice is there for all to see and yet the powerful figures in that banana republic continue to operate with such impunity.
The evidence that Moggi’s team provided was not weak. It wasn’t just “everyone was doing it”, it was more than that. It showed that there was no exclusivity. It showed that others were actually trying to cheat against us and above all else it proved that those alleged to be part of Moggi’s circle (i.e. Bergamo) were actually operating against us. If Moggi was corrupting referees through the designators and the designators were against us…how could the verdict stand? How was the case not thrown out when the defense uncovered Auricchio’s evidence tampering? The answer? Moggi is powerless. That’s why. Our hope of seeing justice served in Italy will likely never occur based on the fact that Moggi canot compete with the power and influence of those he is up against.
The evidence that Moggi’s team provided was not weak. It wasn’t just “everyone was doing it”, it was more than that. It showed that there was no exclusivity. It showed that others were actually trying to cheat against us and above all else it proved that those alleged to be part of Moggi’s circle (i.e. Bergamo) were actually operating against us. If Moggi was corrupting referees through the designators and the designators were against us…how could the verdict stand? How was the case not thrown out when the defense uncovered Auricchio’s evidence tampering? The answer? Moggi is powerless. That’s why. Our hope of seeing justice served in Italy will likely never occur based on the fact that Moggi canot compete with the power and influence of those he is up against.