Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (119 Viewers)

[Cheesio]

How do you explain Jem why the Elkanns did close to nothing to defend Juve back then. ?? You could argue that they weren't involved in the conspiracy (if not the Elkanns i'm sure that fucker Montezemolo was) but you can't deny that they were happy with the results so if it means Juve spending a year in B and getting rid of Moggi for ever it will be accepted and that's why they did notihng to defend Juventus back then.

 

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[Turk_Bianconero]

Indirect losses, because EXOR has been forced to bail Juve out ever since. EXOR wiped Juve's debt clean in 2006, close to 100 million euros, and they've been pumping money into Juve ever since. This is a scenario that would've been much better for EXOR if things had stayed the way it was with Juve, with the Tamoil-partnership and the huge TV-deal that went down the drain.

Juve-friendly Gazzetta and TIM compensated most of the loss with new sponsorships. Elkann also found chance to advertise his junk tractors via kit sponsorship.

 

[Jem83]

How do you explain Jem why the Elkanns did close to nothing to defend Juve back then. ?? You could argue that they weren't involved in the conspiracy (if not the Elkanns i'm sure that fucker Montezemolo was) but you can't deny that they were happy with the results so if it means Juve spending a year in B and getting rid of Moggi for ever it will be accepted and that's why they did notihng to defend Juventus back then.

What was it to defend? All the evidence pointed to a "Moggi system" and Juve being the big bad wolf. Remember also that Juve did appeal the actual verdicts, twice, and got the -30 ban reduced (twice). Juve had lawyers back in 2006 and they surely must have had a good look at the case before deciding not to go down the path of appeal to the TAR/TNAS etc.

I'm now speaking purely of the evidence that was available.

Sure, you and me, and millions of others, knew even back then, that there was more to this case than what appeared in 2006. But in terms of evidence, there was "the Moggi system" and we were fucked.

 

[Jem83]

Juve-friendly Gazzetta and TIM compensated most of the loss with new sponsorships. Elkann also found chance to advertise his junk tractors via kit sponsorship.

The income from those sponsorship-deals does not even come close to the losses in question.

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

The income from those sponsorship-deals does not even come close to the losses in question.

We never had a huge debt. Loss of Tamoil, CL, TV revenue compensated by new sponsorships and player sales, huge decrease in wages, taxes etc. EXOR really didn't invest the numbers you think.

 

[Cheesio]

What was it to defend? All the evidence pointed to a "Moggi system" and Juve being the big bad wolf. Remember also that Juve did appeal the actual verdicts, twice, and got the -30 ban reduced (twice). Juve had lawyers back in 2006 and they surely must have had a good look at the case before deciding not to go down the path of appeal to the TAR/TNAS etc.

I'm now speaking purely of the evidence that was available.

Sure, you and me, and millions of others, knew even back then, that there was more to this case than what appeared in 2006. But in terms of evidence, there was "the Moggi system" and we were fucked.

There was no evidence, the actual calciopoli sentence said that there was no match fixing, they couldn't find anything but still we were send to Serie B. All i know is that the Elkanns didn't defend Juve properly back then and it was also said by Cobolli Gigli that Juve accepted B without much resisting.
Fuck Inter Fuck Moratti and Fuck the Elkanns.

 

[Jem83]

We never had a huge debt. Loss of Tamoil, CL, TV revenue compensated by new sponsorships and player sales, huge decrease in wages, taxes etc. EXOR really didn't invest the numbers you think.

I shouldn't have used the word "debt". When it comes to economics, I'm most definitely a layman, hehe. But what I meant was a massive decrease in total revenue. The tamoil deal was one of the largest, if not the largest, sponsorship-deal in the history of football, and we also lost CL, TV revenue etc. And yes, we gained a lot of this back from player sales, having lesser wages to deal with etc. So good point. But I still don't see why John Elkann would want to go through all of that just to remove one man?

 

[Jem83]

@ Cheese: I agree that it was a poor decision not to defend the club better than they did. But what went through their heads, we'll never know. Having said this, there's no way of proving that Elkann wasn't involved in this, but I'm finding that so unlikely that I am still willing to call it ludicrous.

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

I shouldn't have used the word "debt". When it comes to economics, I'm most definitely a layman, hehe. But what I meant was a massive decrease in total revenue. The tamoil deal was one of the largest, if not the largest, sponsorship-deal in the history of football, and we also lost CL, TV revenue etc. And yes, we gained a lot of this back from player sales, having lesser wages to deal with etc. So good point. But I still don't see why John Elkann would want to go through all of that just to remove one man?

I am not sure but i heard that Moggi and Giraudo were also shareholders. So he could not just fire Moggi as he was more than an employee. What i say is that plan belongs to Montezemolo. He convinced John Elkann to dealing with Moratti will be best for them. That doesn't make Elkann less guilty though.

There were no ''evidences'' against us buddy. That's the whole point. We are done without an evidence of cheating and proper appeal.

 

[Cheesio]

@ Cheese: I agree that it was a poor decision not to defend the club better than they did. But what went through their heads, we'll never know. Having said this, there's no way of proving that Elkann wasn't involved in this, but I'm finding that so unlikely that I am still willing to call it ludicrous.

I understand, but look the man responsible for sending us to Serie B " Guido Rossi" ended up working as a consultant for Fiat after calciopoli

 

[Jem83]

I am not sure but i heard that Moggi and Giraudo were also shareholders. So he could not just fire Moggi as he was more than an employee. What i say is that plan belongs to Montezemolo. He convinced John Elkann to dealing with Moratti will be best for them. That doesn't make Elkann less guilty though.

There were no ''evidences'' against us buddy. That's the whole point. We are done without an evidence of cheating and proper appeal.

Yep. I've never looked at the case in any other way.

I was just saying that all the FIGC had to work with back in 2006 pointed to a "Moggi system". But it was indeed poor evidence, and if we had appealed further, we wouldn't have gone to Serie B.

So I definitely understand the resentment.

But look, let's not derail the topic. I'm just trying to understand why people actually believe that John Elkann wanted to hurt Juventus so bad, just to remove Moggi, who was nothing more than an employee that could've been removed simply by not renewing his contract, AND, who today has publically stated that he was going to leave Juventus for Milan after all?

This is the only question I'm interested in.

I know damn well that we aren't guilty of match fixing. Look at my avatar, and I have been defending Juve and Moggi since 2006.

 

[Jem83]

I understand, but look the man responsible for sending us to Serie B " Guido Rossi" ended up working as a consultant for Fiat after calciopoli

Yeah, that stinks. I still don't think it proves anything, as he might have been the right man for the job from a technical point of view. But it sure stinks.

 

[adriano_c]

Moggi, who was nothing more than an employee that could've been removed simply by not renewing his contract

Moggi had significantly more power within Juventus at the time than you're suggesting. He remains, today, as one of the club's largest single private shareholders.

Apparently, there was even talk of him, alongside Giraudo or Bettega, planning to lead a consortium to buy the club in its entirety in those days.

 

[Vlad]

Moggi had significantly more power within Juventus at the time than you're suggesting. He remains, today, as one of the club's largest single private shareholders.

Apparently, there was even talk of him, alongside Giraudo or Bettega, planning to lead a consortium to buy the club in its entirety in those days.

Agnelli Company always controlled more than 60% shares, so I think it never was an option.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

How he would know that Juve would be relegated, if they defend us properly, we would never be relegated to B, they accepted that and it's common knowledge. Moggi left because he couldn't be a part of the juve organisation and defend himself properly.

who is they? if you are refering to moggi, then why should he defend a club that didn't defend him, if you are refering to the management and those within exor in general then again as you probably know they were all in it. moggi himself knew he was being forced out and that blanc and co were lined up to succeed, so the potential move to milan was not cause of his own free will, more that those within our club had already forced him out and milan offered him a job.

 

[Vlad]

If they sacrificed us like that, then some other company in Exor holding or at that time in IFIL must have gotten some kind of benefit from it. I' think I've read long ago that Ferrari F1 was sponsored by Telecom Italia that season. So maybe something like that happened.

 

[Alen]

I wonder when exactly did this happen (which month):

Moggi: “I had met with Milan President Silvio Berlusconi at Palazzo Grazioli and we had agreed everything.
He proposed that I come to the Rossoneri and I accepted."

I remember well that around the last months of season 2005/06 there were strong rumors (which were later confirmed, I think) that Buffon and Zlatan will go to Milan. I wonder if it had anything to do with this Moggi to Milan thing.

 

[Fake Melo]

I wonder when exactly did this happen (which month):

Moggi: “I had met with Milan President Silvio Berlusconi at Palazzo Grazioli and we had agreed everything.
He proposed that I come to the Rossoneri and I accepted."

I remember well that around the last months of season 2005/06 there were strong rumors (which were later confirmed, I think) that Buffon and Zlatan will go to Milan. I wonder if it had anything to do with this Moggi to Milan thing.

That's exactly what I wrote to one of the writers of F-I.

Also couple of weeks ago Moggi said that he rejected Berlusconi :frown:

Is the old man getting senile?

 

[Badass J Elkann]

I wonder when exactly did this happen (which month):

Moggi: “I had met with Milan President Silvio Berlusconi at Palazzo Grazioli and we had agreed everything.
He proposed that I come to the Rossoneri and I accepted."

I remember well that around the last months of season 2005/06 there were strong rumors (which were later confirmed, I think) that Buffon and Zlatan will go to Milan. I wonder if it had anything to do with this Moggi to Milan thing.

yeah but as i said i dont think he chose to accept milans offer out of free will, moggi had stated that he was forced out of the club as blanc and secco had already been lined up to remove moggi from the club, either way internal forces within the club tried to destroy us.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

That's exactly what I wrote to one of the writers of F-I.

Also couple of weeks ago Moggi said that he rejected Berlusconi :frown:

Is the old man getting senile?

you sure he didn't reject moratti you mean? cause they wanted him too