Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (58 Viewers)

[Alen]

Meani was a paid employee from the 90’s. He was on their payroll. I see you are defending Milan again though…

If there's something i dislike in football it's Milan, so trust me, the last thing i want to do is defending them.
But in this case i agree with Denco, who isn't defending Milan because he wants to defend them, he's just using common sence.
We all know how powerful Milan were/are and we all know that what Meani was doing was well known to Galliani. He was getting his orders from Galliani, that's clear to all of us.
But since there is not a single proof that Galliani was telling Meani what to do, and since Galliani was smart enough not to incriminate himself, what Milan did (distancing themselves from Meani and saying how he did everything on his own. They even presented Meani's phone bills payed by Meani himself. With that they've somehow proven that Milan had nothing to do with Meani) was something similar with what we did with dr.Agricola , wasn't it ?
The court had nothing against Milan, only suspicion.
Now you can say the judges had nothing against us also, and you may be right. But if we look only at Milan case, separately from everything else, then we'll see that there wasn't any proof to relegate them.

 

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[Marc]

You'd be surprised.People will believe anything as long as you make it sound technical and well researched,which is why geniuses like Gsol have a fanclub here.

The same can be said about you. You believe anything the media tells you. You believe Juventus are guilty even though you don´t actually know zilch about the case. At least Gsol is doing a great research and providing us LEGAL documents and ACTUAL facts.

You on the other hand have accepted that Moggi and Juventus are guilty and don´t want to talk or even think about it. Not just that but you are not even willing to try to defend "your" team.

In this case, for Gazzetta and the rest anti-Juve media the mission was succesfull. You falled for their story, like many. And instead of carefully listening to Gsol, you attack him and you abuse him. Really, really disappointing.

Denco, why are you still trying? You are being so badly owned that it isn´t even funny anymore. I can tell you I had the same attitude a year ago. But after CAREFULLY reading all Gsol´s posts, I completely changed my mind. Calciopoli was a joke and yes, considering all the wrongdoings by other, unfairly not punished team I can tell Juve are innocent. Yes, it is that obvious.

 

[denco]

hahahahahahahahaha

I should just let you keep hanging yourself. I answered the GEA question, next time read. And I never claimed I wrote a book either. I claimed I was considering writing one. You just keep reading what you want to.

As I've said before you are out of arguments. Just cut your losses.

By the way I asked if Juve's relegation was right? You evaded the simple yes or no answer with another run around.

Was it right?

Yes or NO

It is not that easy to just say yes or no to answer such a question.

Yes it was right to relegate Juventus because of our unsportsman-like behaviuor for years.

If it was my decision then I woould not have hestitated to relegate them with some of the things I have seen.

Now all that evidence you are talking about that there was lack of is not a football issue it is a criminal issue and that is for the law courts not football tribunal so let us leave all that

No it was not right to relegate Juventus alone because others were involved in match-fixing so if you are going to relegate 1 then you should relegate the others

But there is a degree of punishment to be meted out that befits the crime and since I do not have all the evidence in front of me then I cannot tell you what the others deserve.

By the by I also said you will no doubt answer that GEA question at a later time which you did while i was still writing my post and i was right.

 

[gsol]

If there's something i dislike in football it's Milan, so trust me, the last thing i want to do is defending them.
But in this case i agree with Denco, who isn't defending Milan because he wants to defend them, he's just using common sence.
We all know how powerful Milan were/are and we all know that what Meani was doing was well known to Galliani. He was getting his orders from Galliani, that's clear to all of us.
But since there is not a single proof that Galliani was telling Meani what to do, and since Galliani was smart enough not to incriminate himself, what Milan did (distancing themselves from Meani and saying how he did everything on his own. They even presented Meani's phone bills payed by Meani himself. With that they've somehow proven that Milan had nothing to do with Meani) was something similar with what we did with dr.Agricola , wasn't it ?
The court had nothing against Milan, only suspicion.
Now you can say the judges had nothing against us also, and you may be right. But if we look only at Milan case, separately from everything else, then we'll see that there wasn't any proof to relegate them.

No AQgricola was found not guilty and Galliani's name was used in many phone calls where Meani would say "galliani told me this and Galliani told me that". When Meani used his name, he acted on his behalf. When Meani called galliani and explained matters, Galliani became a party to it.

 

[gsol]

"Yes it was right to relegate Juventus because of our unsportsman-like behaviuor for years. If it was my decision then I woould not have hestitated to relegate them with some of the things I have seen." Denco

Done, now i know what i need to know.


Just for the record, unsportsmanlike conduct (which is what JuveAdam and yourself now agree was all Juve were found guilty of) does not constitute match fixing and does not warrant relegation (calling a referee a fag is not fixing a match) but the fact that you would not hesitate to relegate them tells me where your loyalties lie.

 

[gsol]

Juveadam

You need to stop calling my posts fluff and then agreeing with them. You are confusing. First you criticize what I say and then you totally agree with it. You yourself said that all they were found guilty of was unsportsmanlike conduct and that they were punished too harshly…so why are we arguing?

Please don’t make comments like “they had evidence but hid it” which is against the law or “in a Sport’s Tribunal there is no need for proof” which makes the trial itself totally pointless.

In the end you too agree with me but for some reason have to criticize me. Not sure I get you.

 

[denco]

The same can be said about you. You believe anything the media tells you. You believe Juventus are guilty even though you don´t actually know zilch about the case. At least Gsol is doing a great research and providing us LEGAL documents and ACTUAL facts.

You on the other hand have accepted that Moggi and Juventus are guilty and don´t want to talk or even think about it. Not just that but you are not even willing to try to defend "your" team.

In this case, for Gazzetta and the rest anti-Juve media the mission was succesfull. You falled for their story, like many. And instead of carefully listening to Gsol, you attack him and you abuse him. Really, really disappointing.

Denco, why are you still trying? You are being so badly owned that it isn´t even funny anymore. I can tell you I had the same attitude a year ago. But after CAREFULLY reading all Gsol´s posts, I completely changed my mind. Calciopoli was a joke and yes, considering all the wrongdoings by other, unfairly not punished team I can tell Juve are innocent. Yes, it is that obvious.

The media is anti-Juve huh? What legal documents and what facts?

They are interpretations and that is the bottom line.

How do you think lawyers get criminals off? By interpretation and not covering the whole facts for you to judge but those parts that suit their side.

Have you seen all of the documents that we were accused of? Did you listen to 100,000 supposed phone calls?

Did you speak to everybody involved in making the decisions?

How can you possibly tell what to believe or not ? Just because gsol makes a relatinship between parties involved in making the decisions then you are ready to beleive theories said to be fact.

I personally don't see anyone owning anyone as he has not proved to me at all that Juventus were hard done by.

Why did you think Juventus were guilty anyways? Because of what you were told by the media?

See that is where I am different, I don't read Italian so I was not influenced at all by the media.

If we are to take Milan and Juventus by their merits and ask a neutral guy from mars and tell him that Juventus and Milan managed to be dominant in their domestic league whilst Milan were also winning Cl, Juventus only won it on penalties.

While they were challenging for the scudetto, they were also coming last in a group that included hamburg and panathinaikos

Milan on the other hand were doing well in both competitions , which of these 2 sides would the alien believe is being underhanded in the league?

Now for Juventus to be totally innocent, I would have accepted it if we were just as dominating in Cl but our record is poor.

Our performances under Ancellotti were shocking but we came 2nd twice. 1 or 2 games yes but for the whole season come on?

But once we got to Europe where Moggi's influence is considerably less , we managed to embarass ourselves and Italy with lame performances.

Can you say the same for Milan? Even if they were influencing the league their performances in Europe would suggest they were good enough to win the league.

Please before anyone does that , do not bring Epl clubs into it because they are not a dominant force in Eurooe as far as winning the competition is concerned but Italian clubs generally do well in the competition so why is the dominant Italian club a relative failure in Europe?

You can accuse Real Madrid of what you like but they have 9 titles in Europe. Barcelona's titles in Europe aint great but they are not the dominant force in Spain so do not bring that up either.

@Gsol, my allegiances are fine and stop trying to steal brownie points by potraying me as a bad guy and whats with calling referee a fag? We did more than that

 

[denco]

How come the innocent Luciano Moggi has not sued any newspaper for libel?

There are loads of papers in England that carried stories of him influencing the Italian game, fixing matches. picking the national squad etc

So why has he not sued any of them for libel as he is totally entitled to do if these allegations were untrue?

Instead of just concentrating on what is happening why don't you think of lots of things that did not happen ikhinosa?

If you are innocent Ikhinosa and your livelihood has been taken from you would you not sue papers that are carrying false rumours about you?

 

[gsol]

"The media is anti-Juve huh? What legal documents and what facts?"
- hahahaha if you need to be told that the media has been crucifying Juve for decades good luck. It's obvious you don't speak Italian.


"Have you seen all of the documents that we were accused of? Did you listen to 100,000 supposed phone calls?"

Yes

"Did you speak to everybody involved in making the decisions?"

No but I read their declarations in La Repubblica and La Stampa (only credible newspapers in Italy) and saw their Interviews on TV

"How can you possibly tell what to believe or not ? Just because gsol makes a relatinship between parties involved in making the decisions then you are ready to beleive theories said to be fact."

That's where you screw up. I didn't create relationships...I pointed them out.

"I personally don't see anyone owning anyone as he has not proved to me at all that Juventus were hard done by."

Yes I have and others have taken note too. You just don't want to admit that you got smashed in this forum.

"See that is where I am different, I don't read Italian so I was not influenced at all by the media."

Yes you were. See the two biggest sports papers in Italy are Gazzetta and Corriere and the bulk of the translations come from them. I know...I read the translations too you know.

"If we are to take Milan and Juventus by their merits and ask a neutral guy from mars and tell him that Juventus and Milan managed to be dominant in their domestic league whilst Milan were also winning Cl, Juventus only won it on penalties."

How did Milan win it? Penalties and an elbow goal. Keep in mind that in Moggi's regime they went to the final 4 times.


"Milan on the other hand were doing well in both competitions , which of these 2 sides would the alien believe is being underhanded in the league?"

The one who's owner was prime minister and whose VP was president of the league. Another analogy explodes in your face. I noticed you are defending Milan again though...hmmmm

"Now for Juventus to be totally innocent, I would have accepted it if we were just as dominating in Cl but our record is poor."

Four finals in 10 years with 1 title...ya we sucked.

"Our performances under Ancellotti were shocking but we came 2nd twice. 1 or 2 games yes but for the whole season come on?"

Second? How could that be...wasn't big bad Moggi there to rob titles for us?

"But once we got to Europe where Moggi's influence is considerably less , we managed to embarass ourselves and Italy with lame performances."

Again, 4 finals in a decade and 1 title...ya we sucked. hahahaha

Can you say the same for Milan? Even if they were influencing the league their performances in Europe would suggest they were good enough to win the league.

No because in 10 years they went to 3 Finals and won two with an illegitimate goal and a penalty shoot out at our expense when Nedved was suspended. I see you are still defending Milan though...hmmmmmm


"@Gsol, my allegiances are fine and stop trying to steal brownie points by potraying me as a bad guy and whats with calling referee a fag? We did more than that"

Like? Did you listen to the 100,000 calls? did you read all the trial documents? did you talk to those responsible for the trial? Or did you just come into a forum and talk out of your ass for pages on end?

 

[Lucky Luke]

i wish i knew who is the asshole who keeps -rep me all the time........

 

[gsol]

How come the innocent Luciano Moggi has not sued any newspaper for libel?

There are loads of papers in England that carried stories of him influencing the Italian game, fixing matches. picking the national squad etc

So why has he not sued any of them for libel as he is totally entitled to do if these allegations were untrue?

Instead of just concentrating on what is happening why don't you think of lots of things that did not happen ikhinosa?

If you are innocent Ikhinosa and your livelihood has been taken from you would you not sue papers that are carrying false rumours about you?

How come the innocent Luciano Moggi has not sued any newspaper for libel?

There are loads of papers in England that carried stories of him influencing the Italian game, fixing matches. picking the national squad etc

So why has he not sued any of them for libel as he is totally entitled to do if these allegations were untrue?

Instead of just concentrating on what is happening why don't you think of lots of things that did not happen ikhinosa?

If you are innocent Ikhinosa and your livelihood has been taken from you would you not sue papers that are carrying false rumours about you?

 

[Alen]

If we are to take Milan and Juventus by their merits and ask a neutral guy from mars and tell him that Juventus and Milan managed to be dominant in their domestic league whilst Milan were also winning Cl, Juventus only won it on penalties.

While they were challenging for the scudetto, they were also coming last in a group that included hamburg and panathinaikos

Milan on the other hand were doing well in both competitions , which of these 2 sides would the alien believe is being underhanded in the league?

What are you talking about here ?
We are talking about Moggi's period in Juve, right ? Mid 90's until 2006.
During this period Milan also won the CL only once and they won it on penalties.
We played CL final 4 times and they played CL final 3 times.

How can you say Milan were doing good in both competitions and we were dominant only in Italy ?
From 1995-2006 we played 4 cl finals and 5 cl semifinals in 12 years.
From 1995-2006 they played 3 cl finals and 4 cl semifinals in 12 years.

We're almost the same in this aspect....we are even better than Milan

 

[gsol]

You claimed I haven’t proven to you that they were hard done by.

I posted a document that stated that they were found not guilty of match fixing and were found guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct. This is never going to change. That is it.

Yet they weren’t punished in accordance with their verdict. If they were the max would have been 3-5 points according to the CGS.

Them being relegated and stripped of titles is being hard done by.

Not opinion based but a factual analysis has been presented.

You just won’t admit it.

 

[Pingo]

The same can be said about you. You believe anything the media tells you. You believe Juventus are guilty even though you don´t actually know zilch about the case. At least Gsol is doing a great research and providing us LEGAL documents and ACTUAL facts.

You on the other hand have accepted that Moggi and Juventus are guilty and don´t want to talk or even think about it. Not just that but you are not even willing to try to defend "your" team.

In this case, for Gazzetta and the rest anti-Juve media the mission was succesfull. You falled for their story, like many. And instead of carefully listening to Gsol, you attack him and you abuse him. Really, really disappointing.

Denco, why are you still trying? You are being so badly owned that it isn´t even funny anymore. I can tell you I had the same attitude a year ago. But after CAREFULLY reading all Gsol´s posts, I completely changed my mind. Calciopoli was a joke and yes, considering all the wrongdoings by other, unfairly not punished team I can tell Juve are innocent. Yes, it is that obvious.

Još jedan borac za našu stvar... Ma pusti buzdovana...

One more fighter for our cause...
Look, why bother too explain or reason with this guy?? If you read this statement: "Yes it was right to relegate Juventus because of our unsportsman-like behaviuor for years.I f it was my decision then I woould not have hestitated to relegate them with some of the things I have seen." ...than you know where his allegiance lie...And what things did he see??? He wrote dozen of posts claiming he is right about this "thing"...That Juve was relegated for a good reason (unsportsmanlike conduct - Article 1 violations- constitute a point deduction as high as 5 points), no evidence shows that Juve was guilty of Article 6 violations (relegation)...Did he provide any evidence, facts...something? Don't thing soo.... On the other hand gsol, did all that, wiretaps, articles, facts...And he is still going on and on, to proof that gsol is wrong here...



And WHAT did denco really see?

 

[soulslider]

Još jedan borac za našu stvar... Ma pusti buzdovana...

 

[denco]

What are you talking about here ?
We are talking about Moggi's period in Juve, right ? Mid 90's until 2006.
During this period Milan also won the CL only once and they won it on penalties.
We played CL final 4 times and they played CL final 3 times.

How can you say Milan were doing good in both competitions and we were dominant only in Italy ?
From 1995-2006 we played 4 cl finals and 5 cl semifinals in 12 years.
From 1995-2006 they played 3 cl finals and 4 cl semifinals in 12 years.

We're almost the same in this aspect....we are even better than Milan

In other words Manchester United are a huge success in Europe if we are gonna bring Semi finals, and finals into it.

After all Manchester United got to a lot of semis and the only final they got to , they won it.

You ask a Manchester United fan whether they have been a success then they would tell you no.

How is getting to semis and finals of a competion regarded as a success if coming 2nd in the league is not?

It is all about winning and as far as Juve's pedigree is concerned, we have underachieved in Europe compared to our serieA dominance

We have only won it twice, just 1 more than Celtic. 4 times less than Liverpool, 5 times less than Milan the list is endless and this is pointless tbh

My point is that if we were dominant in Europe as well as in serieA, there would not be grounds for suspicions but we get whooped 3-1 by panathinaikos and hamburg, werder bremen taking us to the cleaners football wise

Clueless against Liverpool and countless others.

English fans are left scratching their heads as to how we could be so dominant in SerieA and getting stuffed by Newcastle and I am not talking about the scoreline

Yes during Lippi's first era we did very well football wise and were the best in Europe no doubt but that is 2 years out of 7 .

The reason I don't listen to Inter fans when they talk garbage about Ronaldo penalty incident is because Juventus were clearly the best team in Italy and no matter what excuses they bring up we were the best.

After that season, no, our success has been shady in my eyes

 

[denco]

If you have the time then you can read this that i got from wikipedia but I am sure they would be called anti-Juve too
Some of the stuff on here was not put forward by our learned researcher since it is not so much pro-juve
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Serie_A_scandal

 

[gsol]

Anyone else notice how far off the point he got? Go ahead and post Wikipedia crap when you know the sources there are the Italian media. By the way your link said nothing new. It scratches the surface and lists who was named and what the allegations and punishments were. We all know that. I doubt Wikipedia is going to translate a 120 page sentence from the trial though.

Your analysis is laughable. By your standards Liverpool was the best team in Europe in 2005 and Milan in 2007? Get real. That tournament is prestigious but losing in a final doesn’t discredit a team winning their domestic league over 38 games. You are sounding worse with every post.

I guess Liverpool were the best team in 2005 EPL and Chelsea cheated.

hahahaha

 

[Desmond]

gsol, just out of curiousity, if Juventus were in fact guilty as charged (of match fixing) would you agree that we should have been relegated?

Purely hypothetical question of course (with view to your staunch insistence on our innocence). A yes or a no will do.

 

[JuveAdam]

.

I just read this post, didn't quote the whole thing, people must be fed up of reading 3 pages of waffle from you anyways. Do me a favour, you read it, then afterwards, read this, you'll find my version much more enjoyable - not to mention far shorter;

The gsol Theory: "no evidence was there to prove we broke any rules, but if there was, we were punished worse than everyone else"

oh dont forget this part, it kind of matters to football fans;

who cares what happens to Inter, Milan, Lazio & the rest? Not me, I am a Juve supporter who now knows beyond a shadow of doubt that all our results are achieved fairly, are genuine & will never be discredited. The serie B championship was my 2nd favourite title in all my time as a Juventino (after CL '96) precisely due to that fact. We've been under suspiscion for years, but that serie B title was earned the hard way, with loyal, world cup winning players staying in Turin & fighting for a cause they, & I believed in.