Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (72 Viewers)
- Thread starter gsol
- Start date
If that is the motive, then there is no justification to punish the whole club as it didn't make use of the result of that friendly match.
The only one to be punished is the same person who is CONFIRMED to make bets on that match.
And it is not an indicator that Moggi used the same thing in the official matches, because all of us know there is nobody caring about the results of friendly matches while thousands of eyes chase the referees of the official matches waiting for any error or misjudgment.
The only one to be punished is the same person who is CONFIRMED to make bets on that match.
And it is not an indicator that Moggi used the same thing in the official matches, because all of us know there is nobody caring about the results of friendly matches while thousands of eyes chase the referees of the official matches waiting for any error or misjudgment.
Yeah, of course.
I was only telling you why do people fix friendly matches. The limits Asian bookmakers offer on friendly matches are as high as the limits on official matches and not only it's as profitable but it's much safer and easier to fix a friendly than an official match.
Moggi's motive to fix the friendly (if he really fixed it) is most probably connected with betting, but if this was the reason, or one of the reasons, to punish Juve as a whole, it really isn't justified.
I was only telling you why do people fix friendly matches. The limits Asian bookmakers offer on friendly matches are as high as the limits on official matches and not only it's as profitable but it's much safer and easier to fix a friendly than an official match.
Moggi's motive to fix the friendly (if he really fixed it) is most probably connected with betting, but if this was the reason, or one of the reasons, to punish Juve as a whole, it really isn't justified.
“What questions did you post that i evaded.”
Read through a whole post for once and find it…I’m getting sick of repeating myself.
“How exactly am i supposed to prove if we fixed matches when i was not assigned the job to do so?”
Yet you continue to try.
“All the things that you have posted which include article 1 and article 6 have been done in the past by Rebel and ZAF, during the world cup. I admired their endeavour but did not share their opinions but fair play to them.”
Sorry but I saw no one post links to wiretaps and legal documents. Your problem is you think its an opinion thing. It’s not. No Article 6 violation = no relegation.
“You say gazetta posted results before it was public knowledge. Seriously are you for real?”
No I don’t say that, they did it and you defending it proves you’ll say anything. I don’t doubt that they have their sources but the fact that their source informed them of the sentences while the case was underway proves that they were pre-written.
“It is not a new thing, it happens here where some newspapers printed West Ham would be fined 5m before the public knew about it regarding the Tevez affair”
Standard case and a textbook result. Not surprising. Calciopoli was far more complex and hitting every nail on the head should raise a few eyebrows.
“Bettega on the other hand managed to stay with the new board that had made a deal with the bad guys that included something to do with Ferrari and Fiat.”
Bettega’s contract ran out in 6 months and was nowhere near as important. To not shame a Juventus legend they let him retire. Did they offer to extend is contract?
“This is not a fact but just my hypothesis and i bet it aint so far from the truth “
Couldn’t be farther from the truth actually. The moment you wrote that Juve were caught red handed your theory was laid to waste. Get this through your head. You are not more informed than the investigators, magistrates and judges who all agreed Juventus did not fix a single match. Your reluctance to accept this is what baffles me. Do you think you are in a position to challenge the investigators? Creative but based on fluff pal…sorry.
“Moggi manipulated a referee in a friendly and you more less agreed by laughing it off as just a friendly.Now if Moggi can do that just for a friendly do you know what lengths he would go to for a significant match?”
Easy, you are allowed to do it for a friendly. There is no rule against it. For many charity games or friendlies either notable or new referees in need of experience are requested. There is nothing wrong with it because nothing is at stake.
In an official match requesting a referee is useless because of “il sorteggio”…the draw. Bet you thought they chose at random huh?
Now you are forcing me to explain yet another aspect of our game. The referee selection process (which investigators agreed was in line with the rules of the leaugue). I will post it in another post. Give me time.
Read through a whole post for once and find it…I’m getting sick of repeating myself.
“How exactly am i supposed to prove if we fixed matches when i was not assigned the job to do so?”
Yet you continue to try.
“All the things that you have posted which include article 1 and article 6 have been done in the past by Rebel and ZAF, during the world cup. I admired their endeavour but did not share their opinions but fair play to them.”
Sorry but I saw no one post links to wiretaps and legal documents. Your problem is you think its an opinion thing. It’s not. No Article 6 violation = no relegation.
“You say gazetta posted results before it was public knowledge. Seriously are you for real?”
No I don’t say that, they did it and you defending it proves you’ll say anything. I don’t doubt that they have their sources but the fact that their source informed them of the sentences while the case was underway proves that they were pre-written.
“It is not a new thing, it happens here where some newspapers printed West Ham would be fined 5m before the public knew about it regarding the Tevez affair”
Standard case and a textbook result. Not surprising. Calciopoli was far more complex and hitting every nail on the head should raise a few eyebrows.
“Bettega on the other hand managed to stay with the new board that had made a deal with the bad guys that included something to do with Ferrari and Fiat.”
Bettega’s contract ran out in 6 months and was nowhere near as important. To not shame a Juventus legend they let him retire. Did they offer to extend is contract?
“This is not a fact but just my hypothesis and i bet it aint so far from the truth “
Couldn’t be farther from the truth actually. The moment you wrote that Juve were caught red handed your theory was laid to waste. Get this through your head. You are not more informed than the investigators, magistrates and judges who all agreed Juventus did not fix a single match. Your reluctance to accept this is what baffles me. Do you think you are in a position to challenge the investigators? Creative but based on fluff pal…sorry.
“Moggi manipulated a referee in a friendly and you more less agreed by laughing it off as just a friendly.Now if Moggi can do that just for a friendly do you know what lengths he would go to for a significant match?”
Easy, you are allowed to do it for a friendly. There is no rule against it. For many charity games or friendlies either notable or new referees in need of experience are requested. There is nothing wrong with it because nothing is at stake.
In an official match requesting a referee is useless because of “il sorteggio”…the draw. Bet you thought they chose at random huh?
Now you are forcing me to explain yet another aspect of our game. The referee selection process (which investigators agreed was in line with the rules of the leaugue). I will post it in another post. Give me time.
La Griglia
Referee selections need clarity here as many have no idea how it occurrs. If you think you can say “send me Rosetti” and get him you need to read this.
Serie A matchdays are separated into 5 standard games and 5 complex games. The 5 most complicated games of the day (derbies, relegation zone or title battles) are placed in the “Grill” (La Griglia). The remainders are put in the standard section. The five most experienced referees are put in a draw and the five less experienced referees are placed in the standard section. Then there are two draws; one for la Griglia where the 5 best refs are attached to one of the Griglia games and the other 5 are drawn for the remaining 5 games.
The draw takes place with a member of AIA present (Association of Italian Referees), an FIGC Member, a Serie A and B delegate, and a member of the press who makes them public right away. The actual draw is conducted by the referee designers who create the groupings of the Grill and the Standard groups.
Here are the loopholes that need to be addressed:
- A referee can never officiate a game where the team playing resides in his region of residence (i.e. this is why Collina has never officiated a Fiorentina match as he is from Viareggio in Tuscany not too far from Firenze)
- A referee can only officiate a team 3 times in a season
Moggi was renowned for managing to figure out “La Griglia”. Giraudo and Bergamo confirmed that he worked 18 hour days and that Calcio was his baby. Towards the end of the season especially he would manage to predict who was going to officiate who based on the fact that he knew who the top ranked referees were and by looking at the schedule he knew what the complicated games would be. Knowing that certain referees had already officiated certain teams 3 times and that others had residence here and there he knew how to use the process of elimination to figure out what referees would be attached to what games. He confirmed this while suspended after Farsopoli when he accurately predicted “La Griglia” on a Radio Show at midweek days before they were even drawn up as noted here http://www.tgcom.mediaset.it/sport/articoli/articolo347140.shtml.
This accuacy was used against him in the initial charges as it was assumed that he knew the referees because he was picking them. He explained himself and his process; the AIA delegates as well as the designers and League delegates confirmed it and the charges were dropped.
The investigations concluded that the referee selections were done in accordance with the rules of the FIGC.
Yet people continue to think he was selecting referees.
Referee selections need clarity here as many have no idea how it occurrs. If you think you can say “send me Rosetti” and get him you need to read this.
Serie A matchdays are separated into 5 standard games and 5 complex games. The 5 most complicated games of the day (derbies, relegation zone or title battles) are placed in the “Grill” (La Griglia). The remainders are put in the standard section. The five most experienced referees are put in a draw and the five less experienced referees are placed in the standard section. Then there are two draws; one for la Griglia where the 5 best refs are attached to one of the Griglia games and the other 5 are drawn for the remaining 5 games.
The draw takes place with a member of AIA present (Association of Italian Referees), an FIGC Member, a Serie A and B delegate, and a member of the press who makes them public right away. The actual draw is conducted by the referee designers who create the groupings of the Grill and the Standard groups.
Here are the loopholes that need to be addressed:
- A referee can never officiate a game where the team playing resides in his region of residence (i.e. this is why Collina has never officiated a Fiorentina match as he is from Viareggio in Tuscany not too far from Firenze)
- A referee can only officiate a team 3 times in a season
Moggi was renowned for managing to figure out “La Griglia”. Giraudo and Bergamo confirmed that he worked 18 hour days and that Calcio was his baby. Towards the end of the season especially he would manage to predict who was going to officiate who based on the fact that he knew who the top ranked referees were and by looking at the schedule he knew what the complicated games would be. Knowing that certain referees had already officiated certain teams 3 times and that others had residence here and there he knew how to use the process of elimination to figure out what referees would be attached to what games. He confirmed this while suspended after Farsopoli when he accurately predicted “La Griglia” on a Radio Show at midweek days before they were even drawn up as noted here http://www.tgcom.mediaset.it/sport/articoli/articolo347140.shtml.
This accuacy was used against him in the initial charges as it was assumed that he knew the referees because he was picking them. He explained himself and his process; the AIA delegates as well as the designers and League delegates confirmed it and the charges were dropped.
The investigations concluded that the referee selections were done in accordance with the rules of the FIGC.
Yet people continue to think he was selecting referees.
Moggi: Inter shouldn't have Ibra
Sunday 4 November, 2007
Luciano Moggi believes Inter have taken advantage of Calciopoli to pluck Juventus’ best players. “I would never have sold them Zlatan Ibrahimovic.”
This week Nerazzurri patron Massimo Moratti insisted he had paid “market value” prices for Ibrahimovic and Patrick Vieira during the summer of 2006 when the club was demoted.
“Football is not corrupt, it is a business and management works to develop the product. You need to be smart to deal in that environment,” said the disgraced former director of sport.
“Inter did not win, but as soon as they got Ibrahimovic he took over the whole team and now they are victorious. I got Ibrahimovic and if I had still been there, I would not have sold him to Inter.”
Ibra was snapped up from Ajax in 2004 and helped the Bianconeri to two consecutive Scudetti – later revoked in the Calciopoli trial.
Roma had also been interested in the player, but it was Moggi who always managed to secure the top transfer targets.
“You need to be smart in football, as managing a top club means always watching your back. I have always won and had the strongest squads. Let us not forget than in the 2006 World Cup Final there were nine players out there signed by me.
“I don’t know if you’d call it talent, but it is good to never ask for money from the shareholders and always win.”
Moggi was interviewed on La7 by Daria Bignardi and commented on how he felt when the Calciopoli scandal first broke.
“I felt like a train that had been derailed. From triumph and a high-profile position I went straight to the gutter. I was afraid to leave the house because I didn’t know how the fans would take it.
“I reacted in the end, at times too strongly. At one stage I thought about ending it all, but faced with a family I must protect, I hit back.”
He was accused of leading a Mafia-style group controlling Serie A and even affecting international call-ups, but Moggi insists he was made a scapegoat and hints at ulterior motives behind last week’s controversial refereeing decisions against Juventus in Naples.
“People hate me because I have won too much. I am not an angel, but there are far more devilish creatures than me. There are those who illegally spy on people and now say that the referees make mistakes in good faith,” he said with a veiled reference to Inter’s notorious legal battle with Christian Vieri over private investigators who allegedly wiretapped his phone.
“Good faith are two words that have nothing to do with what is happening now, when the referees are making more mistakes than ever.”
Sunday 4 November, 2007
Luciano Moggi believes Inter have taken advantage of Calciopoli to pluck Juventus’ best players. “I would never have sold them Zlatan Ibrahimovic.”
This week Nerazzurri patron Massimo Moratti insisted he had paid “market value” prices for Ibrahimovic and Patrick Vieira during the summer of 2006 when the club was demoted.
“Football is not corrupt, it is a business and management works to develop the product. You need to be smart to deal in that environment,” said the disgraced former director of sport.
“Inter did not win, but as soon as they got Ibrahimovic he took over the whole team and now they are victorious. I got Ibrahimovic and if I had still been there, I would not have sold him to Inter.”
Ibra was snapped up from Ajax in 2004 and helped the Bianconeri to two consecutive Scudetti – later revoked in the Calciopoli trial.
Roma had also been interested in the player, but it was Moggi who always managed to secure the top transfer targets.
“You need to be smart in football, as managing a top club means always watching your back. I have always won and had the strongest squads. Let us not forget than in the 2006 World Cup Final there were nine players out there signed by me.
“I don’t know if you’d call it talent, but it is good to never ask for money from the shareholders and always win.”
Moggi was interviewed on La7 by Daria Bignardi and commented on how he felt when the Calciopoli scandal first broke.
“I felt like a train that had been derailed. From triumph and a high-profile position I went straight to the gutter. I was afraid to leave the house because I didn’t know how the fans would take it.
“I reacted in the end, at times too strongly. At one stage I thought about ending it all, but faced with a family I must protect, I hit back.”
He was accused of leading a Mafia-style group controlling Serie A and even affecting international call-ups, but Moggi insists he was made a scapegoat and hints at ulterior motives behind last week’s controversial refereeing decisions against Juventus in Naples.
“People hate me because I have won too much. I am not an angel, but there are far more devilish creatures than me. There are those who illegally spy on people and now say that the referees make mistakes in good faith,” he said with a veiled reference to Inter’s notorious legal battle with Christian Vieri over private investigators who allegedly wiretapped his phone.
“Good faith are two words that have nothing to do with what is happening now, when the referees are making more mistakes than ever.”
Ok, the circle continues. I make a post, you tell me Im wrong, then in the middle of telling me I dont understand, or haven't read things, you end up agreeing with me. Case in point. I say;
You reply;
Basically all you needed to do is quote my post & put
as your reply. Instead you waffle on - trying to prove your superior knowledge I presume - which just makes you come across like a pompous arrogant know-all. If you took time to read & understand other peoples points of view, & to realise most of what you say is agreed with, your own views wouldn't be met with such hostility & ridicule.
Again, not against the rules, but not in the spirit of competition & fair play, which is what a sporting trial is for, & yet again, who punished us. You remind me of a dog chasing its tail.
You reply;
Basically all you needed to do is quote my post & put
as your reply. Instead you waffle on - trying to prove your superior knowledge I presume - which just makes you come across like a pompous arrogant know-all. If you took time to read & understand other peoples points of view, & to realise most of what you say is agreed with, your own views wouldn't be met with such hostility & ridicule.Again, not against the rules, but not in the spirit of competition & fair play, which is what a sporting trial is for, & yet again, who punished us. You remind me of a dog chasing its tail.
You really don't know what else to say. Is requesting a referee proof their is a fix (for a friendly)? As I ALREADY stated if a referee needs experience or if he is notable (ie Collina in he charity game played in Spain in '05) he can be requested. Funny, before the Supercup iin '03 Ancelotti and Galliani requested Collina in the papers "We want Collina" I was at the game, guess who was the ref? COLLINA! He even awarded a non existant penalty to Milan. Juve won anyway and no one ever said a word. But Moggi requests a referee for a friendly and you guys are having your periods over it.
This shows how few arguments you all have left. You are reaching for something that isn't there.
Know it all? Resentful? You scratch the surface and I go into detail. If that bothers you, argue with someone else.
Round & round & round we go. You think you'll ever catch that tricky tail of yours gsol?
And by the way;
This is because you never seem to read & understand what other people post, you just post your "facts" & "evidence". Sometimes, like now, your causing an arguement for no reason, other than so you get replies.
I read and understood you perfectly. You've run out of shit to say. Every single argument from match fixing to referee selecting has been thrown at me and everything has been dismantled and discreditted. Give credit where credit is due. Now you are pinning your hopes on a friendly because you feel you need to get the last word. Go look at the starting line ups for that game, Olivera, Chimenti, etc. I think its safe to say they didn'y give a rats ass about that game yet you insinuate that they fixed it because they requested a referee when it was not a crime to do so. God let it go. You won't prove they were guilty of anything but badmouthing referees and other delegates which violates article 1 and is punishable by a 3-5 point deduction according to the CGS. Want to continue go ahead. Just come back with something a little more concrete than friendlies.
Gsol,
As I posted sometime ago, you make some valuable contributions to this debate, largely the effort you put into both research & translation of the information. Now you seem to have embarked upon a crusade where you aim to prove you know more about this matter than anyone. Almost all Juventini know we were guilty, almost all know Moggi was corrupt. He was no more so than many others in the game, maybe even less so than a few. The one thing he was, is punished more severly than those others. I have not, as you claim, run out of things to say. In fact, if you ever came off this thread you'd notice plenty of us have things to say, about important matters such as todays game with Inter - maybe you heard about that, its kind of important to Juve fans. The only reason I get invloved in this debate with you is that you make some good points. I have defended you & your work earlier in the thread, but now I feel you take the conspiracy too far & you refuse to accept that we did do wrong by the sporting code of conduct that Juventus Football Club agrees to play under. Now that my opinion in this matter is different from yours you feel the need to post facts & evidence to back your point of view up, but in the end prove nothing other than an adequate ability to cut, copy & paste. Just because my view is different & I can admit that employees of our club did wrong doesnt make me less of a fan, or less intelligent, or that I have nothing to say. When it comes down to it, wether its a pre-season friendly, or the CL Final, asking for favours - a choice of ref, a particular color card for an opponent, anything - its against the moral code of the game we love. That game is the reason I even read your posts, the reason for Juventuz & Juventus, & its integrity should be valued above everything. If that means we have to sell our players, suffer in B for a year & lose the best GM we'll ever have, then that is a price I am willing to pay to protect the game I love. Yes, other teams should have been punished, but to be honest I dont care about them because I now know, beyond all doubts, my team is clean. And that m friend, is an undisputable, proven (with evidence) FACT!
As I posted sometime ago, you make some valuable contributions to this debate, largely the effort you put into both research & translation of the information. Now you seem to have embarked upon a crusade where you aim to prove you know more about this matter than anyone. Almost all Juventini know we were guilty, almost all know Moggi was corrupt. He was no more so than many others in the game, maybe even less so than a few. The one thing he was, is punished more severly than those others. I have not, as you claim, run out of things to say. In fact, if you ever came off this thread you'd notice plenty of us have things to say, about important matters such as todays game with Inter - maybe you heard about that, its kind of important to Juve fans. The only reason I get invloved in this debate with you is that you make some good points. I have defended you & your work earlier in the thread, but now I feel you take the conspiracy too far & you refuse to accept that we did do wrong by the sporting code of conduct that Juventus Football Club agrees to play under. Now that my opinion in this matter is different from yours you feel the need to post facts & evidence to back your point of view up, but in the end prove nothing other than an adequate ability to cut, copy & paste. Just because my view is different & I can admit that employees of our club did wrong doesnt make me less of a fan, or less intelligent, or that I have nothing to say. When it comes down to it, wether its a pre-season friendly, or the CL Final, asking for favours - a choice of ref, a particular color card for an opponent, anything - its against the moral code of the game we love. That game is the reason I even read your posts, the reason for Juventuz & Juventus, & its integrity should be valued above everything. If that means we have to sell our players, suffer in B for a year & lose the best GM we'll ever have, then that is a price I am willing to pay to protect the game I love. Yes, other teams should have been punished, but to be honest I dont care about them because I now know, beyond all doubts, my team is clean. And that m friend, is an undisputable, proven (with evidence) FACT!