Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (61 Viewers)

[Post Ironic]

I see there might be an opening to take this to civil court for the 443m in reparations but that where it ends. We go after the FIGC for damage but, much like in the US with our "double jeopardy" rule where you can't be convicted twice of the same crime, I am fairly certain there is something along those lines again.


The sporting justice system there will never allow another case to show they were wrong. It's done.

Well... theoretically we could exhaust this all the way to the Court of Arbitration for sport. We could sue our own federation there certainly, and also Inter Milan, and statute of limitations would be irrelevant from what I recollect of their past proceedings.

It would probably cause Italy to get a ban from the next Euro Championships or World Cup. Hard to say. That could be fought there also.

 

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[Seven]

I see there might be an opening to take this to civil court for the 443m in reparations but that where it ends. We go after the FIGC for damage but, much like in the US with our "double jeopardy" rule where you can't be convicted twice of the same crime, I am fairly certain there is something along those lines again.


The sporting justice system there will never allow another case to show they were wrong. It's done.

I suspect the ne bis in idem principle will apply in Italy. However only that which was truly determined by the criminal judge will be fact before the civil judge.

In this case we might be able to sue the FIGC for money IMO.

 

[Hust]

I think it was more of Giraudo/Moggi vs Elkanns(FIAT). They didn't do shit so that Giraudo wouldn't buy FIAT or Juve. But those are suppositions.

I doubt that. That article from the Milan fan was brilliant. Juve basically took the bullet so the nation wouldn't get banned by FIFA or UEFA.

 

[Seven]

Well... theoretically we could exhaust this all the way to the Court of Arbitration for sport. We could sue our own federation there certainly, and also Inter Milan, and statute of limitations would be irrelevant from what I recollect of their past proceedings.

It would probably cause Italy to get a ban from the next Euro Championships or World Cup. Hard to say. That could be fought there also.

That would most likely be a penalty imposed by FIFA or UEFA. In reality athletes sue their own federations before the CAS all the time, because in a lot of sports doping bans are directly imposed by these federations.

I am not sure we want to bring this before the CAS rather than a true civil judge though.

 

[Hust]

I suspect the ne bis in idem principle will apply in Italy. However only that which was truly determined by the criminal judge will be fact before the civil judge.

In this case we might be able to sue the FIGC for money IMO.

And this is where we agree. The outcome yesterday shows we didn't do anything but because of the SOL there is no going back. We are stuck with the previous sentence even though the court said nothing happened.

Because of this, we can now look at hitting the FIGC where it hurts because the outcome yesterday shows we didn't do anything and hence all punishments we were given were unnecessary. And I'm assuming this is where the civil court will take us.

Juve were crippled because of this. There needs to be a way to get something back out of it. Unfortunately Inter can't have their CL success taken away and we probably won't get our 2 titles back so 443m look pretty good right now.

 

[Seven]

I doubt that. That article from the Milan fan was brilliant. Juve basically took the bullet so the nation wouldn't get banned by FIFA or UEFA.

This whole Calciopoli thing is fairly simple. Italians like to bitch about conspiracies. After letting the pressure build up for forty years, frustration was so high that Juventus, being top dog, had to pay just to let all these frustrated fans relax.

 

[Hust]

Well... theoretically we could exhaust this all the way to the Court of Arbitration for sport. We could sue our own federation there certainly, and also Inter Milan, and statute of limitations would be irrelevant from what I recollect of their past proceedings.

It would probably cause Italy to get a ban from the next Euro Championships or World Cup. Hard to say. That could be fought there also.

Is the Court of Arbitration for Sport different than the sporting tribunal that sent us to B? Surely, then, these idiots must know Juve will take this as far as it needs to go until we get what we want. Wouldn't you think they would have caved instead of letting us continue running with this making it more painful for them?

I guess I don't understand how the SOL would be irrelevant there but WAS relevant here?

 

[Post Ironic]

That would most likely be a penalty imposed by FIFA or UEFA. In reality athletes sue their own federations before the CAS all the time, because in a lot of sports doping bans are directly imposed by these federations.

I am not sure we want to bring this before the CAS rather than a true civil judge though.

Yes. I meant by FIFA or UEFA. And I meant that if this were to happen, the FIGC could fight FIFA and UEFA there.

But, CAS is completely neutral, and could be seen as a last avenue, and a way to get us completely absolved of all crimes and have our revoked scudetti returned. They certainly have the power to rule against the FIGC. Even if we win in a civil court, it doesn't necessarily mean we get our scudetti returned, or that the FIGC absolves us.

 

[Seven]

And this is where we agree. The outcome yesterday shows we didn't do anything but because of the SOL there is no going back. We are stuck with the previous sentence even though the court said nothing happened.

Because of this, we can now look at hitting the FIGC where it hurts because the outcome yesterday shows we didn't do anything and hence all punishments we were given were unnecessary. And I'm assuming this is where the civil court will take us.

Juve were crippled because of this. There needs to be a way to get something back out of it. Unfortunately Inter can't have their CL success taken away and we probably won't get our 2 titles back so 443m look pretty good right now.

I'm not sure there ever was a verdict that said black on white Juventus were guilty of anything. I know Moggi was convicted at some point. But I don't think it was truly established that he was working as an agent for Juventus. All of this is mind boggling really.

 

[Hust]

This whole Calciopoli thing is fairly simple. Italians like to bitch about conspiracies. After letting the pressure build up for forty years, frustration was so high that Juventus, being top dog, had to pay just to let all these frustrated fans relax.

But they made our dominance even stronger in the long run.

Didn't they see this coming? We will continue winning for a while and the league is in financial ruin as a result. What the hell were they thinking?

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Yes. I meant by FIFA or UEFA. And I meant that if this were to happen, the FIGC could fight FIFA and UEFA there.

But, CAS is completely neutral, and could be seen as a last avenue, and a way to get us completely absolved of all crimes and have our revoked scudetti returned. They certainly have the power to rule against the FIGC. Even if we win in a civil court, it doesn't necessarily mean we get our scudetti returned, or that the FIGC absolves us.

Completely neutral. Have you seen how stacked the courts were against us? I guess this seriously wrecked my judgement of the judicial system there so what gives us any sense of security that the CAS will actually be neutral and take in all evidence?

 

[Mark]

I doubt that. That article from the Milan fan was brilliant. Juve basically took the bullet so the nation wouldn't get banned by FIFA or UEFA.

I doubt that.

 

[Hust]

I'm not sure there ever was a verdict that said black on white Juventus were guilty of anything. I know Moggi was convicted at some point. But I don't think it was truly established that he was working as an agent for Juventus. All of this is mind boggling really.

It is mind boggling. The court documents show Moggi and Giraudo acted "independently" of each other and of the club so the "club" didn't do anything wrong but at the end of the day the court made their decision too quickly for us to even lodge a legit defense.

That's why I think taking this to the civil courts is imperative.

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I doubt that.

I know you do, Cronios/Turk 2.4 beta.

 

[Post Ironic]

Is the Court of Arbitration for Sport different than the sporting tribunal that sent us to B? Surely, then, these idiots must know Juve will take this as far as it needs to go until we get what we want. Wouldn't you think they would have caved instead of letting us continue running with this making it more painful for them?

I guess I don't understand how the SOL would be irrelevant there but WAS relevant here?

I don't know enough about CAS, to know that SOL would be irrelevant for sure... I think it's more so a case of us being able to charge FIGC and Inter with fraud, conspiracy, libel, etc, to have us relegated illegally, and having the CAS hear the case. I think it would be a case of us having to actually become protagonists in this whole affair rather. As in an entire new case, with nothing to do with the original proceedings. And that would void SOL, wouldn't it? Suing FIGC and Inter for criminal conspiracy against Juventus FC? We should be able to do that, as it is entirely independent of the original case.

 

[Hust]

I don't know enough about CAS, to know that SOL would be irrelevant for sure... I think it's more so a case of us being able to charge FIGC and Inter with fraud, conspiracy, libel, etc, to have us relegated illegally, and having the CAS hear the case. I think it would be a case of us having to actually become protagonists in this whole affair rather. As in an entire new case, with nothing to do with the original proceedings. And that would void SOL, wouldn't it? Suing FIGC and Inter for criminal conspiracy against Juventus FC? We should be able to do that, as it is entirely independent of the original case.

So essentially we go from being the "defense" to the "prosecution".

Now I understand what you mean.

I agree.

 

[Mark]

It is mind boggling. The court documents show Moggi and Giraudo acted "independently" of each other and of the club so the "club" didn't do anything wrong but at the end of the day the court made their decision too quickly for us to even lodge a legit defense.

That's why I think taking this to the civil courts is imperative.

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I know you do, Cronios/Turk 2.4 beta.

going to TAR wasn't illegal. It's a normal Italian justice system. A judge from TAR said we would have been cleared. Why would FIFA ban the FIGC for a legal procedure?

 

[Post Ironic]

But they made our dominance even stronger in the long run.

Didn't they see this coming? We will continue winning for a while and the league is in financial ruin as a result. What the hell were they thinking?

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Completely neutral. Have you seen how stacked the courts were against us? I guess this seriously wrecked my judgement of the judicial system there so what gives us any sense of security that the CAS will actually be neutral and take in all evidence?

CAS just overturned FIFA's order for us to pay compensation for Adrain Mutu's signing in 2004. And ordered Chelsea to pay all legal costs. I have faith they will rule against governing bodies if the evidence is in favour of it. They do so all the time.

 

[Hust]

This whole SOL confuses & concerns me. Let's say we take Inter/FIGC to court...can't they simply appeal the case over and over again for 5 years until a new SOL kicks in?

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CAS just overturned FIFA's order for us to pay compensation for Adrain Mutu's signing in 2004. And ordered Chelsea to pay all legal costs. I have faith they will rule against governing bodies if the evidence is in favour of it. They do so all the time.

Good points

 

[Post Ironic]

So essentially we go from being the "defense" to the "prosecution".

Now I understand what you mean.

I agree.

Yes. I was wording it wrong up above. It sounded like I meant reopening the old case, but I meant an entirely new case.

 

[Hust]

going to TAR wasn't illegal. It's a normal Italian justice system. A judge from TAR said we would have been cleared. Why would FIFA ban the FIGC for a legal procedure?

I don't know.

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Yes. I was wording it wrong up above. It sounded like I meant reopening the old case, but I meant an entirely new case.

I think we need to form our own independent non-profit judicial team for Juve.

can focus on Dybala and FalcON and we can build the case for CAS

 

[Post Ironic]

This whole SOL confuses & concerns me. Let's say we take Inter/FIGC to court...can't they simply appeal the case over and over again for 5 years until a new SOL kicks in?

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Good points

Statute of Limitations kicks in once there is an uncontested ruling. In Italy, I suppose it's 5 years from when a ruling occurs with no appeal. Because we didn't appeal our punishment originally, we screwed ourselves. Agnelli's death really fucked us over in that regard. It's so obvious that Inter and FIGC were waiting for that power vacuum to occur after his death to attack us, plus the impending world cup, and threats from FIFA over getting any scandal sorted out.