Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (41 Viewers)

[rounder]

gsol is owning this thread. everybody who doesn't believe the farsopoli theory is just criticising gsol, yet they can't come up with anything reasonable that discounts what gsol is saying, and he has provided evidence.

Exactly . I think what gsol has posted so far is clear and most importantly , supported with facts . He has put a lot of effort into this calciopoli and that's something I know none of us would do or even feel like doing . He came up with a lot of interesting points . I don't think it's fair to shut down his argument because they don't seem realistic .

I strongly believe there is a lot more to it than we think . I don't like conspiracies but they aren't always wrong . The calciopoli was thought to be a conspiracy from the beggining but it got us down to serie B and cost the club big time .

what i can't understand is why wasn't all this evidence used to clear Juventus out of this whole mess . If all of this was true , and asuming it is , why didn't Juventus do something about it . Why aren't they doing something about it now ?

 

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[Quetzalcoatl]

what evidence? the 14 pages of wiretaps, court documents, etc.

 

[Enron]

Exactly . I think what gsol has posted so far is clear and most importantly , supported with facts . He has put a lot of effort into this calciopoli and that's something I know none of us would do or even feel like doing . He came up with a lot of interesting points . I don't think it's fair to shut down his argument because they don't seem realistic .

I strongly believe there is a lot more to it than we think . I don't like conspiracies but they aren't always wrong . The calciopoli was thought to be a conspiracy from the beggining but it got us down to serie B and cost the club big time .

what i can't understand is why wasn't all this evidence used to clear Juventus out of this whole mess . If all of this was true , and asuming it is , why didn't Juventus do something about it . Why aren't they doing something about it now ?

Where is the specific evidence? Assume this thread is a court of law and provide documentation, witness testimony, etc. Just cause Gsol says something or says someone said something or that someone said somone said something. Don't make it true. It's called hearsay, which isn't admissable in most courts. So assume that this thread is being looked at with the highest scrutiny of a Supreme Court and post accordingly. Not to say either side is right or wrong on this issue but just wanted to show how the otherside views things.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

well, he has provided links to the documents, whether its text or video, usually in italian, although i cant read italian, i believe that the members here who can would have seen them.

 

[rounder]

Where is the specific evidence? Assume this thread is a court of law and provide documentation, witness testimony, etc. Just cause Gsol says something or says someone said something or that someone said somone said something. Don't make it true. It's called hearsay, which isn't admissable in most courts. So assume that this thread is being looked at with the highest scrutiny of a Supreme Court and post accordingly. Not to say either side is right or wrong on this issue but just wanted to show how the otherside views things.

the 14 pages of wiretaps, court documents, etc.

I actually didn't think they were convincing at first . But I had no reason not to believe it . If I were to aregue against what gsol said , I would have to have an argument . I didn't , nor did anyone else in this forum . So untill someone proves gsol and everything he has posted wrong , I will consider it true .

 

[Enron]

well, he has provided links to the documents, whether its text or video, usually in italian, although i cant read italian, i believe that the members here who can would have seen them.

The thing is this guy makes a claim and posts a link. Then he expects people to take his word as ultimate truth. I guess that is cool. But as we all know, there are two sides to every argument. Gsol doesn't seem to like hearing other opinions, which is kind of sad. This thread should be a discussion between the sides. Instead it seems if you disagree with Gsol he calls you an idiot and posts a link or an claim you've already read for times before. If there was more listening on his part perhaps this thread would be place of enlightentment instead of angry conspiracy.

 

[C4ISR]

Y is it that some who disagree with gsol spend most of their time criticizing him instead of his arguements?

As for proof. U dont get any more official than a trial verdict. Ironically, those who think were guilty are basing there arguements on that document, based on what the media said it meant, instead of reading it for themselves.

 

[Enron]

I actually didn't think they were convincing at first . But I had no reason not to believe it . If I were to aregue against what gsol said , I would have to have an argument . I didn't , nor did anyone else in this forum . So untill someone proves gsol and everything he has posted wrong , I will consider it true .

That philosophy is how my country got itself a shitty president and a 20 year vacation in Iraq.

 

[Enron]

Y is it that some who disagree with gsol spend most of their time criticizing him instead of his arguements?

I think Denco and Bess have done a good job of arguing against the argument.

 

[rounder]

That philosophy is how my country got itself a shitty president and a 20 year vacation in Iraq.

Yeah . Poor America .

The thing is this thread has become a personal attack on Gsol rather than trying to prove his arguments wrong . There wan't legit proof so far to prove Gsol's argument wrong . I'm not going by any philosophy , it's just logic . When someone puts a good argument on the table supported with facts which you can't argue , the least you can do is give him the benefit of the doubt and not critisize him because you don't feel what he says is right .

 

[C4ISR]

I think Denco and Bess have done a good job of arguing against the argument.

gsol's main arguement is that Juve did not fix any matches or bribe any refs. Please show me where either of those 2 poster's u mentioned give proven examples which show otherwise?


The majority of counter-arguments in this thread have been nothing more than personal opinion's, relying on stereotypes about Moggi, Juve, etc.

 

[Enron]

Yeah . Poor America .

The thing is this thread has become a personal attack on Gsol rather than trying to prove his arguments wrong . There wan't legit proof so far to prove Gsol's argument wrong . I'm not going by any philosophy , it's just logic . When someone puts a good argument on the table supported with facts which you can't argue , the least you can do is give him the benefit of the doubt and not critisize him because you don't feel what he says is right .

Like Gsol and others haven't ever said. "Anyone who disagrees is not a Juve fan". I think that goes both ways.


PS. I wasn't trying get you to feel sorry for America, it was a joke that I found too good to pass up.

 

[Enron]

gsol's main arguement is that Juve did not fix any matches or bribe any refs. Please show me where either of those 2 poster's u mentioned give proven examples which show otherwise?


The majority of counter-arguments in this thread have been nothing more than personal opinion's, relying on stereotypes about Moggi, Juve, etc.

And I haven't seen one document attached to a post or displayed in this thread. All we get is links to Italian sites and that isn't very helpful for those of us who don't speak Italian. Look I'm not going to beat this in the head too much longer. But if you wish you can probably scroll back and find decent arguments on either side. The truth of the matter is that this thread from the very start has been intended to be a one way converstation. And it shouldn't have to be.

 

[rounder]

Like Gsol and others haven't ever said. "Anyone who disagrees is not a Juve fan". I think that goes both ways.


PS. I wasn't trying get you to feel sorry for America, it was a joke that I found too good to pass up.

I agree that gsol doesn't always give the person who argues against his point a chance and immediately calls him an idiot or something like that but when you think of it can you blame him ? I mean the guy has done a year and a half of research , gives it all he has , comes up with some solid evidence only for someone who just takes a quick glance at it to say it's bullshit . How do you think he's going to respond to that ?

I do believe the argument goes both ways like any other argument for that matter . But Gsol's argument here beats the shit out of anything that tried to counter his argument so far . I'm not taking sides because i believe we don't know half of what's really going on but if this were a court case with two sides , It would be pretty clear who the winner is .

 

[Enron]

I agree that gsol doesn't always give the person who argues against his point a chance and immediately calls him an idiot or something like that but when you think of it can you blame him ? I mean the guy has done a year and a half of research , gives it all he has , comes up with some solid evidence only for someone who just takes a quick glance at it to say it's bullshit . How do you think he's going to respond to that ?

I do believe the argument goes both ways like any other argument for that matter . But Gsol's argument here beats the shit out of anything that tried to counter his argument so far . I'm not taking sides because i believe we don't know half of what's really going on but if this were a court case with two sides , It would be pretty clear who the winner is .

After doing a year and a half of research wouldn't you expect some resistance or even a lot of resistance, especially with a topic such as Calciopoli. I mean Juve fans were crushed and they won't want to get crushed again if this guy gets their hopes up and is wrong. Granted some of Gsol's arguments have merit but sometimes I'm left thinking. "I've heard Italy is kind of corrupt, but damn". Juve have been at the forefront of Italian football for decades and to think that someone would want to topple that empire on a mere whim is kind of hard to believe as a notion.

 

[C4ISR]

And I haven't seen one document attached to a post or displayed in this thread. All we get is links to Italian sites and that isn't very helpful for those of us who don't speak Italian. Look I'm not going to beat this in the head too much longer. But if you wish you can probably scroll back and find decent arguments on either side. The truth of the matter is that this thread from the very start has been intended to be a one way converstation. And it shouldn't have to be.

He gave a link to the FIGC website, which are the official court documents. He even told u what pages to go to. Just copy and paste the text and put it in a translator, or ask some1 u know who speaks Italian.

As for all the other stuff about Moratti, etc, thats secondary, although u would have to be extremely naive to ignore the ties between TIM and Inter, since they're run and owned by the same ppl (during calciogate).

The fact remains they didn't have any proof to relegate us. Juve were convicted in the court of public of opinion, and this thread only highlights that point, since critics cant provide any evidence stating we are cheaters.

Its strange, because ppl are putting the onus on gsol to prove Juve are innocent. You're innocent until proven guilty. Not guilty until proven innocent. No1 can prove we are guilty, thats a cold hard fact any way u look at it, and considering Juve were relegated and had 2 of their titles stripped, its a huge deal.

 

[Enron]

He gave a link to the FIGC website, which are the official court documents. He even told u what pages to go to. Just copy and paste the text and put it in a translator, or ask some1 u know who speaks Italian.

As for all the other stuff about Moratti, etc, thats secondary, although u would have to be extremely naive to ignore the ties between TIM and Inter, since they're run and owned by the same ppl (during calciogate).

The fact remains they didn't have any proof to relegate us. Juve were convicted in the court of public of opinion, and this thread only highlights that point, since critics cant provide any evidence stating we are cheaters.

Its strange, because ppl are putting the onus on gsol to prove Juve are innocent. You're innocent until proven guilty. Not guilty until proven innocent. No1 can prove we are guilty, thats a cold hard fact any way u look at it, and considering Juve were relegated and had 2 of their titles stripped, its a huge deal.

Oh I have no doubt Inter had a hand in the process. Juve shouldn't have been relegated but to say that Juve is entirely innocent without knowing every single piece of evidence is naive as well. I think we all know that justice systems don't exactly work as they say they do. I've found the best way to prove someone's innocent is to look for evidence of their guilt. If there is no evidence of guilt then they are innocent. Either way you look at it there are sketchy issues. Juve might not be entirely guilty or entirely innocent. The point is that we should be having discussion such as this, which open eyes on both sides, instead of just posting information and then following it verbatim.

 

[rounder]

After doing a year and a half of research wouldn't you expect some resistance or even a lot of resistance, especially with a topic such as Calciopoli. I mean Juve fans were crushed and they won't want to get crushed again if this guy gets their hopes up and is wrong. Granted some of Gsol's arguments have merit but sometimes I'm left thinking. "I've heard Italy is kind of corrupt, but damn". Juve have been at the forefront of Italian football for decades and to think that someone would want to topple that empire on a mere whim is kind of hard to believe as a notion.

That's exactly why i found his arguments very hard to believe . The probability of something like that happening ( a club like Juventus nearly destroyed because of some false conspiracy ) is almost impossible . But his points seem reasonable and really gets you thinking . Since when has the media been honest ? I don't speak Italian so obviously I'm going to take the word of the media , but how accurate is that really ?

I for one have accepted what has happened to Juventus and I see no reason to look back . I was never entirely convinced with the calciopoli however and not because I am a Juve fan but because The verdict is obviously flawed and corrupted .Most Juve fans moved on and accepted it , but some didn't , and here Gsol has some good points i wouldn't rule out and I don't understand why others would rule out either .

 

[gsol]

provided what evidence?

I provided people with actual wiretaps and legal documents...all you've done is state the same opinion a million times.

 

[gsol]

Exactly . I think what gsol has posted so far is clear and most importantly , supported with facts . He has put a lot of effort into this calciopoli and that's something I know none of us would do or even feel like doing . He came up with a lot of interesting points . I don't think it's fair to shut down his argument because they don't seem realistic .

I strongly believe there is a lot more to it than we think . I don't like conspiracies but they aren't always wrong . The calciopoli was thought to be a conspiracy from the beggining but it got us down to serie B and cost the club big time .

what i can't understand is why wasn't all this evidence used to clear Juventus out of this whole mess . If all of this was true , and asuming it is , why didn't Juventus do something about it . Why aren't they doing something about it now ?

A while ago I posted something called "The Inside Job which answers why the new Juve management had no interest in saving the old Juve management. I'd post it again but I'd get thrashed for repeating myself. If you can't find it just PM me.

It is all being used however by Moggi in his appeal and by Giu Le Mani dalla Juve in theirs but those are civic trials which take time. Not like that Sporting Farse of a Justice system in Italy.