Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (50 Viewers)

[denco]

Yeah, i understood what you meant. Milan and Juve were somehow partners in it and they shared the scudetti equally, without entering a head-to-head fight.
But that's also not true and we went into a straight scudetto race with them in 2005 and 2006. Didn't we ?
Wasn't Milan-Juve in May 2005 the tittle decider, only 3 rounds before the end? We were equal on points with them for more than 10 rounds and only that match at San Siro gave us the edge and 3 points advantage 3 rounds till the end.
In 2006 it was again us and Milan fighting for lo scudetto. We won the league with 3 points more than Milan and we had to make 3 straight wins at the end to keep this 3 points advantage.

I got your point and yeah, there is some logic in it, but seasons 2004/05 and 2005/06 beat this theory. Especially since it was us who won both these scudetti and since Milan were left short handed.

But that is my point , 3 rounds to go or so, Juve win at Milan but not mathematically sure to win the league but Milan just gave up to concentrate on Cl final, which they lost to Liverpool by drawing 3-3 with Palermo at home or somebody like that.

The next season was a token effort by Milan if we are being honest as they stood no chance of winning it, by January they were like 13 points behind but we just started to misbehave after Arsenal had knocked us out of Cl or even before that, and started to lose and draw easy games.

It was also the season that I got stick from some posters when I was suspicious of how if Milan drew on a saturday evening, we drew as well, if they won, we won and if we lost, they somehow managed to lose

 

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[denco]

Just for those who don't know.
Berlusconi told Moggi in order to take Abbiati on loan that year JUVENTUS ARE OBLIGATED NOT TO PLAY HIM AGAINST MILAN. It was part of the deal. Thats why Abbiati was dropped. Whether he had a flu or not, he was not going to play..

But I don't understand the relevance.

Neither do I as players on loan should not really be playing against the clubs that own them as there has got to be a conflict of interest most especially in a sensitive position as the goal keeper as your every move would be scrutinised as there is absolutely no room whatsoever for human error.

 

[JuveAdam]

No suspicious would have been Abbiati playing and making a mistake. The fact he didn't play strikes me as downright normal.

Totally, its only suspicious when a player is sold & then doesn't play v his former club, because of a "gentlemens" agreement, this happens all time & should be stopped. Its hard to prove, but no doubt gsol can start 3 threads just to try......

 

[Marc]

Yeah, i understood what you meant. Milan and Juve were somehow partners in it and they shared the scudetti equally, without entering a head-to-head fight.
But that's also not true and we went into a straight scudetto race with them in 2005 and 2006. Didn't we ?
Wasn't Milan-Juve in May 2005 the tittle decider, only 3 rounds before the end? We were equal on points with them for more than 10 rounds and only that match at San Siro gave us the edge and 3 points advantage 3 rounds till the end.
In 2006 it was again us and Milan fighting for lo scudetto. We won the league with 3 points more than Milan and we had to make 3 straight wins at the end to keep this 3 points advantage.

I got your point and yeah, there is some logic in it, but seasons 2004/05 and 2005/06 beat this theory. Especially since it was us who won both these scudetti and since Milan were left short handed.

That denco´s post didn´t make any sense at all imo. When Milan didn´t win Scudetto they were either inferior to Juve or they went for Champions League trophy. Champions League takes a lot of energy and Milan probably didn´t have it enough to go for domestic title. That´s not a big surprise, it is obvious Milan prefers the European title. That doesn´t necessarily mean Milan handed Scudetto to Juve.

Not only you proved him wrong with Milan and Juve fighting to the last breathe in our 2 last seasons in Serie A but AC Milan also publically demanded our 2 last Scudettos. I must say, that´s a real gentlemen agreement.

Can i swear at Gsol once? Please? Only once? Doing it in a PM just isnt fun.

I seriously don´t understand why would you insult Gsol. He is one of the few people here who actually care and fight for Juventus honour.

 

[Sidi']

How well do the Italians know about this, how much will they care about this and can this?

By now fully aware. Maybe no one knows all the actual details but the general consensus in Italy is that Milan was saved thanks to their political and economic ties. It is also widely understood now that the set up was predominantly on the Inter side of things (Inter-Telecom-FIGC) but that the other half of Juventus (FIAT side especially Montezemolo) wanted it and co-operated accordingly.


Are people aware of these threats from Milans side and can they be used against Berlusconi by his political opponents for the next elections?

Prodi didn't have to use them to win (the election preceeded the trial) but he could very well try next time. It is known that Berlusconi used TV Rights to stay in the CL because when Milan were initially dropped far enough that they were no longer in the CL Mediaset began renegotiating the terms of their contracts. After Milan's appeal they went back to the CL and the terms went back to normal.

Galliani and Berlumerda still complained that Milan were unjustly treated...



Do we have a proof that Berlusconi threatened that there will be no TV rights for Italy if Milan's relegated or you guys are only making a logical assumption ?
And if there is a proof, why wasn't it used by Prodi or someone else ?

By the way the most realistic figure I heard was 24 million fans worldwide

I heard Juve had 44 million alone in Europe. Tuttosport said Juve had 78 million in China.

Also, there was little evidence against Milan in the trial. If anythimg, they were hard done by

 

[JuveAdam]

It is also widely understood now that the set up was predominantly on the Inter side of things (Inter-Telecom-FIGC) but that the other half of Juventus (FIAT side especially Montezemolo) wanted it and co-operated accordingly.

I just read this part when quoted in another post - prob fell asleep during the original. Gsol, are you saying that Fiat, & Montezemolo wanted the scandal, & therefore us relegated? Are you for real? I defended you in a couple of threads for the effort you put in with this research, but holy hell, you've totally lost it. Why would he want that? Oh I see, so TamOil walk away & he can use Juve to get cheap advertising for FIATs New Holland Tractor range. WTF are you smoking?

I thought that was only while Howard was on loan?

The agreement was part of the loan but when Everton bought Howard he missed the game, leading to a ban on "gentlemans agreements" involving restrictions in a transfer deal.

Why did you bring that up? Now he will go for months investigating conspiracies in Germany.

While starting 53 threads & hijacking any mention of Bundesliga/Bayern/Lahm to mention that Bayern & Beckenbauer secretly hide Adolf Hitler in the basement of the Allianz Arena.

 

[Alen]

Gsol, are you saying that Fiat, & Montezemolo wanted the scandal, & therefore us relegated?

I think this was said by Moggi himself. Gsol wasn't the one who came up with it.

 

[JCK]

gsol only has the evidence.

 

[HelterSkelter]

I have it too.But i will take it to my grave.

 

[JuveAdam]

I think this was said by Moggi himself. Gsol wasn't the one who came up with it.

A company with a large stake in our ownership wanted our reputation tarnished? Wanted our sponsors to walk? Wanted our players to quit?

I wanted Capello out as much as the next guy, but surely there was an easier way?

gsol only has the evidence.

I heard Bozi had it too, but he rolled it up &............

 

[gsol]

I heard Juve had 44 million alone in Europe. Tuttosport said Juve had 78 million in China.

Also, there was little evidence against Milan in the trial. If anythimg, they were hard done by

I don't know how many fans Juve have for sure.

Milan were not at all hard done by. There was way more evidence of illicit activity for Milan than Juve. Milan could have been relegated very easily but Berlusconi used TV rights as blackmail to keep them safe.

- physically threatening linesmen Coppelli "if he doesn't do what he is yold"
- secretly meeting between Meani, Collina, and Galliani in Meani's closed restaurant
- fixing a draw with Udinese to guarantee an Udinese CL spot and an easy and cheap Jankulovski transfer when Milan could no longer win the scudetto

Just a few examples of Milan's wire taps

 

[gsol]

A company with a large stake in our ownership wanted our reputation tarnished? Wanted our sponsors to walk? Wanted our players to quit?

:

Yes. They didn't want Juve relegated or have our players quit but that was the price to pay to finally be rid of the triade and get full control of Juventus which is now totally operated entirely by the FIAT group. Losing the TAMOIL sponsors was part of the dispute with the triade in the first place. Notice now all the sponsors of Juve are FIAT themselves or FIAT's friends like TIM and La Gazzetta Dello Sport.

Caterina Platea of Telecom admitted to seeing Montezemolo in meetings with Moratti and Tronchetti in the months preceeding Calciopoli and 6-7 months after the sentence Ferrari (where Montexemolo presides) was sponsored by Telecom Italia for millions.

Don't want to believe they were involved? I don't care. In Italy it's already common knowledge that FIAT allowed it to obtain control.

Remember they couldn't fire Moggi and Giraudo because they would have wound up working for Inter or Milan if they did. I'm sure you remember both Moratti and Berlusconi trying to lure the two a few years ago don't you? To get rid of them they needed something total and permanent

 

[JuveAdam]

Don't want to believe they were involved? I don't care. In Italy it's already common knowledge that FIAT allowed it to obtain control.

I'm sure you remember both Moratti and Berlusconi trying to lure the two a few years ago don't you? To get rid of them they needed something total and permanent

I do remember it, yes. I can see the angle your coming from but the possibility of Serie C was real, think they'd risk that to lose Moggi? Please, the company woould be then worth F all, the whole point was - according to you - to control that company, Juve. To have New Holland as our major sponsor makes no sense. Tamoil was money from outside, (good business practice). If we went in C, or B on -30, the whole company would have been worthless, making its aquisition meaningless, kind of like buying Leeds United last summer. You argue your points well, but the whole arguement is so flawed.

 

[denco]

That denco´s post didn´t make any sense at all imo. When Milan didn´t win Scudetto they were either inferior to Juve or they went for Champions League trophy. Champions League takes a lot of energy and Milan probably didn´t have it enough to go for domestic title. That´s not a big surprise, it is obvious Milan prefers the European title. That doesn´t necessarily mean Milan handed Scudetto to Juve.

Not only you proved him wrong with Milan and Juve fighting to the last breathe in our 2 last seasons in Serie A but AC Milan also publically demanded our 2 last Scudettos. I must say, that´s a real gentlemen agreement.

If Milan as you said do not have the energy to pursue Juventus and go for Champions league how could they have been " fighting to the last breath in our last 2 seasons in SerieA" ?

Afterall they were in Cl final in 2005 and semi final in 2006 so how praytell did they manage to fight to the last breath?

Milan and Juventus have ben the dominant forces in serieA for 15 years or thereabouts just like Man united and Arsenal in England and Real Madrid with Barcelona in Spain.

Italy is known for photo finishes amongst the big leagues, it has had the most in recent years

But they have involved Roma , Juve when Roma won it

Lazio Milan, Milan won it

Lazio Juventus Lazio won it

Roma, Juve Inter Juve won it

http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/history.html

Look at the table from 1994 onwards and you will see that when other clubs like Lazio , Roma won the league , Milan or Juve were hot on their tails and some of Milan and Juve wins have another club just 2 or 1 point behind but most of the time that either Milan or Juventus won it, the other was usually far away.
The only time was 2005/2006 where Juve won by 3 points ahead of Milan but you can plainly see that Juventus were drawing most of their games towards the end as the only loss was the 3-1 loss to Milan.

It was never really close as Juventus were far ahead and lets be honest our most credible pursuers were Inter but they gave up and drew far too many games as they only lost twice but 18 DRAWS?

As for Milan asking for our title, what do you expect after all they did come 2nd and they would much rather it not go to Inter anyways.

It had been whispered for ages that Milan and Juventus usually do not go head to head and if 1 was pursuing another club for the title like we have done in the past against roma, Lazio and parma, the other just lets them get on with it .

Bottomline of all the clubs that hate us in seriea and they are quite a few in Inter, Torino,Roma, Lazio, Fiorentina and possibly Parma, Milan are more of an ally than an enemy

 

[gsol]

I'm sure you are all nice guys, but some people here piss me off. A lot of people that know jack shit about Calciopoli on these forums think that they can dismantle my arguments with lines like "you expect me to believe"...bla bla bla.

Thankfully I am fluent in Italian and had the opportunity to read all the trial documents, listen to all the wiretaps, read the the statistical studies from Universities throughout Europe, read countless newspapers (real ones like La Repubblica), etc. etc. etc. The comments I leave have a year and half of research behind them...what are you basing your ideas on?

Only on English speaking threads do I encounter this type of response. Maybe because the Italian fans that had access to what I had access to happen to agree with me way more often than disagree.

Since my year and a half of research isn't good enough then you use your "expertise" to explain the following:
- why did the Elkan/Montezemolo hardly defend Juve if not to take a suicide pill temporarily and then take control of the company (and don't say that "they knew they cheated" like the stupid Interisti say because one glance at the sentencing and you know we were found NOT GUILTY)
- explain why the Elkan/Montezemolo side failed to invest in Juventus for over 7 years leading up to Calciopoli
- Moggi and Giraudo were majority individual shareholders in Juventus meaning they had a lot of voting power but 3 weeks before the Gazzetta started printing "Moggiopoli" shit FIAT sold special invitation shares to handpicked shareholders reducing the Triade's voting power...financial records indicated the sale of 4 times the norm less than one month before the scandal (they announced no new projects that needed funding) so explain why they would do that if not to take the vote away from Moggi and Giraudo in the next General Assembly (that's why they stepped down...they were getting the boot anyway and I have a phone call that confirms it).
- Explain why so many of Juve's old sponsors are gone and why my issue of "Hurra Juventus" has an ad for TIM/Telecom. Why do we now see La Gazzetta Dello Sport advertized on the field during Juve home games...
- Explain why an FIGC Sports Minister (Melandri) would publically thank MONTEZEMOLO for Juve's retraction of their Civil Court appeal

Let's see you put in the same effort I put in to what I say.

No more fluff...post some facts. Then we'll see who's believable.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

Thankfully I am fluent in Italian and had the opportunity to read all the trial documents, listen to all the wiretaps, read the the statistical studies from Universities throughout Europe, read countless newspapers (real ones like La Repubblica), etc. etc. etc. The comments I leave have a year and half of research behind them...what are you basing your ideas on?


you need to get a life buddy

 

[gsol]

I have a life...I just don't sleep...big words from a guy who has posted nearly 25,000 times here

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

yeah which is why you should listen, plus at least i havent posted the exact same shit on 172 posts

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

gsol is owning this thread. everybody who doesn't believe the farsopoli theory is just criticising gsol, yet they can't come up with anything reasonable that discounts what gsol is saying, and he has provided evidence.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

provided what evidence?