Burqa (6 Viewers)

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Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
Hijab is being said to be for good of women, to protect them. Even if it is true and is really for good of women, you're still never going to make anyone do something which is supposedly good for him/herself. Muslims are smoking but no one cares if it is good for them or not.

Having hijab is a must for women in Iran. It is a law. Even though I don't like it and I would have taken it off if I had been allowed to I have never had a problem with having it because it was always a part of my costume since I was nine. When I was a believer, I used to practice my religion precisely, step by step but even at that time I had a hard time understanding the purpose of having hijab. Women have to cover their bodies (minus their faces and their hands up to their wrists) when they are doing their prayers even when there is no man at the place. Rami could confirm how much we discussed it when he was a regular member here :D
Actually there is a strong argument that smoking is haram too. Using Qeyas(your familiar with the concept i believe?) i think it is pretty obvious that smoking is haram.


Really now. You know, it makes me remember a time many many moons ago when I said that women wear them because the men make them, which you protested vehemently. And now you're saying you would try to convince your woman to wear one, how interesting.

You're absolutely right, it has nothing to do with the men. It's the women who want to wear them!

Go read my post again.


If you still don't realize why i wanted you to go read my post again, pull out a dictionary and look at the definitions of "forcing some one to do something" and "convincing someone to do something".

I specifically stated that i won't force the woman to wear it if she isn't convinced, and i specifically stated that i don't think forcing a woman to wear it makes any sense at all.
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
Go read my post again.


If you still don't realize why i wanted you to go read my post again, pull out a dictionary and look at the definitions of "forcing some one to do something" and "convincing someone to do something".

I specifically stated that i won't force the woman to wear it if she isn't convinced, and i specifically stated that i don't think forcing a woman to wear it makes any sense at all.
You said in the past that women wear the hijab because they want to. However you neglected to add that they wear it "after being talked into it by the husbands". Completely without the use of force or coercion, naturally, heaven forbid. And correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it one of the rules of Islam that a wife must obey her husband? I'm sure no Muslim man, progressive and open minded as they are, would eeever use that as leverage, right?
 

king Ale

Senior Member
Oct 28, 2004
21,689
Excluding the underage girls and excluding women that were forced by families/parents but pretend they did it out of a personal belief, I wouldn't say many women.
Of course I'm excluding them and of course there are lots of women who are forced to wear hijab either by the society or by their families. But I emphasize that they are many women who are willingly wearing hijab.

Actually there is a strong argument that smoking is haram too. Using Qeyas(your familiar with the concept i believe?) i think it is pretty obvious that smoking is haram.
Millions of Muslims are smoking every day. There's no clear Islamic law banning smoking but it was just an example. You can never force someone to do something which is considered to be for the good of him/herself.
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
Of course I'm excluding them and of course there are lots of women who are forced to wear hijab either by the society or by their families. But I emphasize that they are many women who are willingly wearing hijab.



Millions of Muslims are smoking every day. There's no clear Islamic law banning smoking but it was just an example. You can never force someone to do something which is considered to be for the good of him/herself.
There is, most muslim scholars have already said its haram. The fact that many muslims smoke does not change that, if all muslims had pre maritial sex, would that make it nor haram.

What do you mean by clear Islamic law?? Like i said most muslim scholars used analogy to conclude that smoking actually is haram.

Where did i say i will force her??
 

king Ale

Senior Member
Oct 28, 2004
21,689
A clear Islamic law is something which is bringing a guarantee for an instruction to be executed. There is no such thing for smoking. It is sure one of the most widely-done harams among Muslims.
 

PhRoZeN

Livin with Mediocre
Mar 29, 2006
15,844
Almost all scholors would go to the length of calling it haraam. Its the general consensus all be it if the word makrooh (dislike) may be used or not there all in the same boat on this one.
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
A clear Islamic law is something which is bringing a guarantee for an instruction to be executed. There is no such thing for smoking. It is sure one of the most widely-done harams among Muslims.

Widely done does not mean anything at all. Thats a weak argument.


You do understand the four sources of legistlation in Islam. Maybe its different with Shiites, but in Sunni Islam we have four sources of legistlation. Koran and Hadith may not contain all regulations, thats why we have the third and fourth sources of legistlation which are the Qeyas and Ijmaa. Most Sunni scholars using qeyas(analogy) derived that smoking was haram.
 

king Ale

Senior Member
Oct 28, 2004
21,689
You are missing my point Fred. First, I don't see any strict Islamic law banning smoking and that's clearly why it is widely done all over the world even among those who are really practicing Islam carefully. Second, what I wanted to point out is that there are tons of things which happen to be for good of people but Muslim are still not forced to do them. Having hijab is not a must in Qoran, it is descended upon Mohammad's women and is said to be for good of them themselves. That's why I don't see any reason for hijab being forced on Muslim women.
 

PhRoZeN

Livin with Mediocre
Mar 29, 2006
15,844
Widely done does not mean anything at all. Thats a weak argument.


You do understand the four sources of legistlation in Islam. Maybe its different with Shiites, but in Sunni Islam we have four sources of legistlation. Koran and Hadith may not contain all regulations, thats why we have the third and fourth sources of legistlation which are the Qeyas and Ijmaa. Most Sunni scholars using qeyas(analogy) derived that smoking was haram.
Ijtihaad, which is number 3 whilst Qiyaas would be as a result of number 3. But either way yes its based solely on the quran and hadith and understanding of it, as its generally unanimous by the ijmaa. I dont even see why this is discussed. :shifty:
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
You are missing my point Fred. First, I don't see any strict Islamic law banning smoking and that's clearly why it is widely done all over the world even among those who are really practicing Islam carefully. Second, what I wanted to point out is that there are tons of things which happen to be for good of people but Muslim are still not forced to do them. Having hijab is not a must in Qoran, it is descended upon Mohammad's women and is said to be for good of them themselves. That's why I don't see any reason for hijab being forced on Muslim women.

You obviously don't understand the sources of legistlation in Islam. There was no such thing as Cigarettes and tobacco 2000 years ago, so there is no way you are going to find a direct text from the Quran or Hadith. Since the first two sources do not have any legistlation with regard to tobacco, muslims then resort to ijmaa and qeyas. Which they have done, and the fatwa is there that smoking is haram.
 

PhRoZeN

Livin with Mediocre
Mar 29, 2006
15,844
Having hijab is not a must in Qoran, it is descended upon Mohammad's women and is said to be for good of them themselves. That's why I don't see any reason for hijab being forced on Muslim women.
Difference of opinion here. You'd actually find majority of muslims seeing it as obligatory accepting it as that even though they accept to not practice it. But theres no force in religion, so thats out of the question.
 

king Ale

Senior Member
Oct 28, 2004
21,689
There is no force in choosing Islam but when you choose it, it all becomes "do this" and "do that"s, intimidating of the hell and promising the heaven.
 
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