Build/Predict Your Juve (13 Viewers)

[edgardavids2608]

importance is directly related to quality (unless we talking long term legends like Gigi, Marchisio, Chiellini), which is why our most important players are our best ones at the same time. is Emre Can a better footballer than either of the ones mentioned above, even in their decline? Mandzukic, Cuadrado and Khedira still produce top notch performances in the CL and for their NTs, something Can has not even been close to doing in his career. you bring up Costa as a benchwarmer for Bayern when "CL finalists starter" Can has an astonishingly 4 more appearances than him in their respective final seasons for their clubs, that despite EPL having more fixtures, EPL having an additional cup competition, and Pool making the CL final while Bayern went out on the QF last season. so whos the benchwarmer here exactly? also, "CL finalists starter" Can played an incredible 87 minutes in their knockout run this season, 80 in the 0-0 vs Porto when the 1st leg ended 5-0 already, and 7 vs Madrid in the final. but otherwise youre right, hes a proven top class player on every level, that should command top 3 wages at a top10 financial powerhouse in Europe. irreplaceable figure for Pool and much more proven at the highest level than guys like Berna

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a bit more, probably true. Liverpool is a more prestigious name than Viola, but result wise they arent far ahead in recent years. and i think its fair to say Berna was their best player when he was bought, unlike Can with Pool in either of his seasons there (would be unfair to bring this season with monster Salah up)? also one is a DM/CM while the other is a AM/winger

id give them about equal wages

So Cuadrado who was hurt for a lot of our CL run needs a raise though. Bro is it about importance to the club or is it based on Position,age, outside factors(being a free transfer). You dont seem to think that these should effect your wages which is fine but also not the way the market currently works

 

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[zizinho]

So Cuadrado who was hurt for a lot of our CL run needs a raise though. Bro is it about importance to the club or is it based on Position,age, outside factors(being a free transfer). You dont seem to think that these should effect your wages which is fine but also not the way the market currently works

no, Cuadrado needs a raise BECAUSE we give stupidly high wages to an inferior player as already stated several times, dont try twisting words on me here. Cuads is the better player, more proven, longer at the club and much more of a game changer type of player than Can. 3rd best wages on a unproven at the highest level, inferior to half the squad newbie is an insult

 

[Hust]

importance is directly related to quality (unless we talking long term legends like Gigi, Marchisio, Chiellini), which is why our most important players are our best ones at the same time. is Emre Can a better footballer than either of the ones mentioned above, even in their decline? Mandzukic, Cuadrado and Khedira still produce top notch performances in the CL and for their NTs, something Can has not even been close to doing in his career. you bring up Costa as a benchwarmer for Bayern when "CL finalists starter" Can has an astonishingly 4 more appearances than him in their respective final seasons for their clubs, that despite EPL having more fixtures, EPL having an additional cup competition, and Pool making the CL final while Bayern went out on the QF last season. so whos the benchwarmer here exactly? also, "CL finalists starter" Can played an incredible 87 minutes in their knockout run this season, 80 in the 0-0 vs Porto when the 1st leg ended 5-0 already, and 7 vs Madrid in the final. but otherwise youre right, hes a proven top class player on every level, that should command top 3 wages at a top10 financial powerhouse in Europe. irreplaceable figure for Pool and much more proven at the highest level than guys like Berna

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a bit more, probably true. Liverpool is a more prestigious name than Viola, but result wise they arent far ahead in recent years. and i think its fair to say Berna was their best player when he was bought, unlike Can with Pool in either of his seasons there (would be unfair to bring this season with monster Salah up)? also one is a DM/CM while the other is a AM/winger

id give them about equal wages

And people complain about my stubbornness

 

[zizinho]

And people complain about my stubbornness

you cant beat a balkan person in stubbornness, sorry

 

[Hust]

you cant beat a balkan person in stubbornness, sorry

My grandfather is czech, grandmother serb/yugoslav...I got you boo

 

[edgardavids2608]

no, Cuadrado needs a raise BECAUSE we give stupidly high wages to an inferior player as already stated several times, dont try twisting words on me here. Cuads is the better player, more proven, longer at the club and much more of a game changer type of player than Can. 3rd best wages on a unproven at the highest level, inferior to half the squad newbie is an insult

I dont think you are getting my point. Cuads can say he deserves a raise but then what? He gets upset? He asks to leave so he can go to another club and make the same amount as he does here? Its not about fairness. If it was Chiellini would be making 7 a year as well but thats not how the market works for the most part.(Dont tell Milan that). There are norms in the market and upsetting players doesnt make a hill of beans if they cant do anything else. The problem is under paying a player like Dybala who can say I want 7 mil or im going to one of 3-4 teams that would give me that.

Cuads has no leverage. Neither does Barna right now. Pjanic does which is why he will get paid. Sandro does which is why he gets paid. Can doesnt matter because its about what others would pay not just us. Do you disagree with this completely?

If you were Khedira and we said no we arent giving you more than 4 mil a year, what would you do? Demand more? Ok now we say no. then what? get upset like a child? Shop yourself around? Who would give him more? If the goal is to get 6 hes shit out of luck no ma
tter twhat he does

 

[zizinho]

I dont think you are getting my point. Cuads can say he deserves a raise but then what? He gets upset? He asks to leave so he can go to another club and make the same amount as he does here? Its not about fairness. If it was Chiellini would be making 7 a year as well but thats not how the market works for the most part.(Dont tell Milan that). There are norms in the market and upsetting players doesnt make a hill of beans if they cant do anything else. The problem is under paying a player like Dybala who can say I want 7 mil or im going to one of 3-4 teams that would give me that.

Cuads has no leverage. Neither does Barna right now. Pjanic does which is why he will get paid. Sandro does which is why he gets paid. Can doesnt matter because its about what others would pay not just us. Do you disagree with this completely?

If you were Khedira and we said no we arent giving you more than 4 mil a year, what would you do? Demand more? Ok now we say no. then what? get upset like a child? Shop yourself around? Who would give him more? If the goal is to get 6 hes shit out of luck no ma
tter twhat he does

so basically you want us to say fuck you and shut up, or leave if you dont like it, to the players that have carried us since 2015, for the sake of signing Emre Can? what am i missing here, is this prime Edgar Davids we got our hands on, to disrupt our hierarchy, atmosphere and chemistry for? money aside, is he worth all this? no? then live with the consequences of our stupid decision and give everyone who demands a payrise as well

 

[edgardavids2608]

so basically you want us to say $#@! you and shut up, or leave if you dont like it, to the players that have carried us since 2015, for the sake of signing Emre Can? what am i missing here, is this prime Edgar Davids we got our hands on, to disrupt our hierarchy, atmosphere and chemistry for? money aside, is he worth all this? no? then live with the consequences of our stupid decision and give everyone who demands a payrise as well

What im saying is no player is stupid enough to not understand how this works. Thats what Im saying. They know that free agents get more monet and if they dont they have an agent who will wuickly explain that. You seem to think that old players still get pay increases which isnt a thing. You seem to think it is but its not.

Im not saying fuck you to the players. Im saying you think players will make demands based on a special circumstance and i think they arent that stupid.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

I wish Zizinho was my boss at work he'd give me an adequate pay rise for 8 years of loyal service and not give it to someone less qualified and totally incompetent

 

[edgardavids2608]

I wish Zizinho was my boss at work he'd give me an adequate pay rise for 8 years of loyal service and not give someone less qualified and totally incompetent

If only work was judged on just that and nothing more. Unfortunately thats not the case

 

[zizinho]

What im saying is no player is stupid enough to not understand how this works. Thats what Im saying. They know that free agents get more monet and if they dont they have an agent who will wuickly explain that. You seem to think that old players still get pay increases which isnt a thing. You seem to think it is but its not.

Im not saying fuck you to the players. Im saying you think players will make demands based on a special circumstance and i think they arent that stupid.

nope, thats exactly where youre wrong. top athletes have enormous egos, you have to know how to handle such guys. you give in their eyes a scrub top 3 wages, and at the very least, they wont be happy about it. congrats, you have successfully created a locker room problem.


and what free agents have we actually paid more? Pirlo? dont remember his Milan wages vs what he got here. Llorente? 3.5M, thats arguably more than his market value, but he was our starting CF and earned half a million more than Vucinic and Quag. Khedira? 4M for a Madrid starter & Germany international is more than fair. Pogba at 4.5M, Marchisio at 3.5M and Nanes at 3M show that there is a certain structure in place, which Sami fit into. Alves got 3.5M, half a million more than Licht&Cuads, which makes perfect sense. who else am i forgetting? what do you think these guys realistically deserved at the time of their signing, if they werent freebies? more or less than what we offered? now compare Can to either of those. this idea that free agents deserve silly wages just because theyre free agents is bogus. we overpaid big time here if we pay him whats reported

 

[edgardavids2608]

nope, thats exactly where youre wrong. top athletes have enormous egos, you have to know how to handle such guys. you give in their eyes a scrub top 3 wages, and at the very least, they wont be happy about it. congrats, you have successfully created a locker room problem.


and what free agents have we actually paid more? Pirlo? dont remember his Milan wages vs what he got here. Llorente? 3.5M, thats arguably more than his market value, but he was our starting CF and earned half a million more than Vucinic and Quag. Khedira? 4M for a Madrid starter & Germany international is more than fair. Pogba at 4.5M, Marchisio at 3.5M and Nanes at 3M show that there is a certain structure in place, which Sami fit into. Alves got 3.5M, half a million more than Licht&Cuads, which makes perfect sense. who else am i forgetting? what do you think these guys realistically deserved at the time of their signing, if they werent freebies? more or less than what we offered? now compare Can to either of those. this idea that free agents deserve silly wages just because theyre free agents is bogus. we overpaid big time here if we pay him whats reported

If we have a player uprising you are correct. If we dont you are way wrong

For instance over 3 years we are paying him 36 mil if hes on 6 mil ayear net. Lets say we sell Khedira for 10. thats 3 mil a seaon for 3 years and 8 mil in wages. We basically trade Khedira for the same player at 24 years old. Once again thats barring that our team all demands a pay increse and then leaves bc they are upset they dont get it

 

[zizinho]

If we have a player uprising you are correct. If we dont you are way wrong

you think players will riot infront of Vinovo? if anything happens, 90% we wont even hear about it. maybe something gets leaked like after the CL final, but i think we are smarter now

 

[edgardavids2608]

you think players will riot infront of Vinovo? if anything happens, 90% we wont even hear about it. maybe something gets leaked like after the CL final, but i think we are smarter now

So let me get this straight. We will definately have an uprising but we wont know it bc we wont let it out? OK I get it . You are right and if you arent its because its not public. There is no scenario where our players just understand the situation and dont have a come apart in the locker room. Our captain makes 1/3 of that of higgy who had a lackliuster season. Im sure Chiellini is mad right now right?

 

[zizinho]

So let me get this straight. We will definately have an uprising but we wont know it bc we wont let it out? OK I get it . You are right and if you arent its because its not public. There is no scenario where our players just understand the situation and dont have a come apart in the locker room. Our captain makes 1/3 of that of higgy who had a lackliuster season. Im sure Chiellini is mad right now right?

ugh, you refuse to understand dont you? Higuain when we signed him - 42 goals season, one of the best players in the world that season. 7.5M for him was somehow justified, even though i didnt agree with the whole transfer whatsoever. Chiellini is our top paid CB, makes perfect sense. Pogba was our best paid mid, Pjanic is now. reasonable as well. now it is Emre Can. think about that

also, Chiellinis contract just expired, lets see what he gets now

 

[edgardavids2608]

ugh, you refuse to understand dont you? Higuain when we signed him - 42 goals season, one of the best players in the world that season. 7.5M for him was somehow justified, even though i didnt agree with the whole transfer whatsoever. Chiellini is our top paid CB, makes perfect sense. Pogba was our best paid mid, Pjanic is now. reasonable as well. now it is Emre Can. think about that

also, Chiellinis contract just expired, lets see what he gets now

You dont get it do you? ugh. Can is brought in to be a starter and when Pjanic gets his money Can will be similar to him. So Can is making as much as the top cm in our team but less than 3 attacking players. Thats not that crazy. You say he doeant deserve it? Thats fine but hes saving the club a ton of money.

I think we both agree that different positions get different wages. For instance Benatia understands he gets less than a non starter winger. So Can will be our second best cm arguably and will get paid pretty close to that. Our new top for cms is probably 6-7 mil. Pjanic will get his raise and then our cms will be on your standard. Top guy get the most and down the list form there according to that ceiling. Also I think its important to know that we dont set that ceiling. Kroos makes that as did James. Modric less bc hes old and you dont get raises when your old. We are trying to get Pjanic to the top cm level so he doesnt become disgruntled. We arent in some single team bubble. Every player is constantly being asked if he would like to try to make more in another team by their agent if thats a possibility

 

[zizinho]

You dont get it do you? ugh. Can is brought in to be a starter and when Pjanic gets his money Can will be similar to him. So Can is making as much as the top cm in our team but less than 3 attacking players. Thats not that crazy. You say he doeant deserve it? Thats fine but hes saving the club a ton of money.

I think we both agree that different positions get different wages. For instance Benatia understands he gets less than a non starter winger. So Can will be our second best cm arguably and will get paid pretty close to that. Our new top for cms is probably 6-7 mil. Pjanic will get his raise and then our cms will be on your standard. Top guy get the most and down the list form there according to that ceiling. Also I think its important to know that we dont set that ceiling. Kroos makes that as did James. Modric less bc hes old and you dont get raises when your old. We are trying to get Pjanic to the top cm level so he doesnt become disgruntled. We arent in some single team bubble. Every player is constantly being asked if he would like to try to make more in another team by their agent if thats a possibility

Can our 2nd best mid? well now i atleast understand why you argue for hours about this, you overrate him. currently hes 4th, and that only because of Marchisios health and Bentancur still being 1-2 years short of eclipsing him. by his age Khedira was already BL champion with Stuttgart as a key figure, one of the best for Germany in their 3rd place WC finish, and making a transfer to Madrid. wed be lucky to have Can reach Samis level here. now, Sami and Marchisio might leave and we could end up with 2 new mids. depending on who they are he might move up/down, but he still wont be our 2nd best mid as long as we have Matuidi, atleast not for the next season

i wouldnt say wages are strictly by positions nor that positions are the main factor even. main thing is being a difference maker in attacking play. great offensive talents will always be more sought after and command higher wages, even when comparing 2 players in same position. look at the 100 or 200 best paid players in the world and tell me how many arent playmakers, goalscorers or speed demon wings. so Emre still doesent fit in here.

and yes, if we sign SMS hed be our 5th best paid player until Pjanic gets extended. bu he will still earn more than Mandzukic, Cuadrado and AS, which is unacceptable

 

[Wittl]

Szczesny
Cancelo Benatia Chiellini A.Sandro
Can Pjanic Wilshere
Dybala Higuain D.Costa​

2 freebies for midfield

 

[edgardavids2608]

Can our 2nd best mid? well now i atleast understand why you argue for hours about this, you overrate him. currently hes 4th, and that only because of Marchisios health and Bentancur still being 1-2 years short of eclipsing him. by his age Khedira was already BL champion with Stuttgart as a key figure, one of the best for Germany in their 3rd place WC finish, and making a transfer to Madrid. wed be lucky to have Can reach Samis level here. now, Sami and Marchisio might leave and we could end up with 2 new mids. depending on who they are he might move up/down, but he still wont be our 2nd best mid as long as we have Matuidi, atleast not for the next season

i wouldnt say wages are strictly by positions nor that positions are the main factor even. main thing is being a difference maker in attacking play. great offensive talents will always be more sought after and command higher wages, even when comparing 2 players in same position. look at the 100 or 200 best paid players in the world and tell me how many arent playmakers, goalscorers or speed demon wings. so Emre still doesent fit in here.

and yes, if we sign SMS hed be our 5th best paid player until Pjanic gets extended. bu he will still earn more than Mandzukic, Cuadrado and AS, which is unacceptable

So basically we just hve a different evaluation of him. You think hes worse than Khedira and Matuidi and I think he will be better if not next season definately in the seasons following. If he doesnt live up to that bill than he is definately over paid and shouldnt be here. If he becomes the second best cm and a week in and week out starter he probably deserves it based on his age and length of contract with the free transfer factored in

 

[zizinho]

So basically we just hve a different evaluation of him. You think hes worse than Khedira and Matuidi and I think he will be better if not next season definately in the seasons following. If he doesnt live up to that bill than he is definately over paid and shouldnt be here. If he becomes the second best cm and a week in and week out starter he probably deserves it based on his age and length of contract with the free transfer factored in

so you think hes not better than them right now?

he will be a sure starter if Khedira leaves, and depending of the other CM signing. for example, SMS is much better as a attacking LCM, while Matuidi can only play LCM anyway. so if Sami leaves, we are more likely to see SMS-Pjanic-Can than Matuidi-Pjanic-SMS, because you want to have your best players in their best positions. but lets see who else we sign 1st before going there

the way i see it, most players we gave big wages for had something to back it off even before coming here. Costa, Higuain, Tevez, Khedira, Llorente... Can has a long way to go to get to where these guys were before coming here, so he better be damn excellent from the get go to justify such trust from the management

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Szczesny
Cancelo Benatia Chiellini A.Sandro
Can Pjanic Wilshere
Dybala Higuain D.Costa​

2 freebies for midfield

sell Pjanic as well, Max Meyer as regista

#teamplusvalenza