British schools where girls must wear the Islamic veil (1 Viewer)

[Zé Tahir]

And I'm not even talking about the article.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Martin]

And I'm not even talking about the article.

No, you pretty much stuck your head in the sand when you saw it.

 

[Fred]

So Martin, lets get this straight, you don't subscribe to the reasoning that says, lets ban the burqa so people don't force it upon others?

 

[mcrae]

Last week there were news about some british youths who got arrested for burning a copy of Koran!Apparently that's a crime over there.Also there were reports about how most restaurants,hospitals,schools serve only halal food without even letting the consumers know about it.No matter if you are atheist,muslim,christian or Pagan your meat must be blessed from some imam

Uk is on its way to become the first Islamic republic in Europe.A full introduction of Sharia Law wouldn't surpise me either.

 

[Zé Tahir]

Halal meat is not blessed by an imam.

Yeah. homie, tremble in fear. .

edit: "Sharia law" doesn't even exist in all "Muslim" countries but yeah, the United Kingdom is going to get it

 

[Martin]

So Martin, lets get this straight, you don't subscribe to the reasoning that says, lets ban the burqa so people don't force it upon others?

Not really.

 

[Fred]

Last week there were news about some british youths who got arrested for burning a copy of Koran!Apparently that's a crime over there.Also there were reports about how most restaurants,hospitals,schools serve only halal food without even letting the consumers know about it.No matter if you are atheist,muslim,christian or Pagan your meat must be blessed from some imam

Uk is on its way to become the first Islamic republic in Europe.A full introduction of Sharia Law wouldn't surpise me either.

Kosher is halal btw. Thanks for making it easier for us away from home.

 

[Bjerknes]

The Islamic veil is idiotic as hell anyway. I'm all for banning that bullshit. If this religion was really meaningful, it would appreciate what God created, not shun it. But hell, all these religions are dumb anyway. Just another distraction from stuff that really matters, like building a suitable economy for the future.

 

[Fred]

Why don't we say "Hijab"/ headscarf or burqa? When someone says the Islamic veil, i automatically assume they mean the headscarf, but apparently some people call the burqa "islamic veil"

 

[Bjerknes]

Last week there were news about some british youths who got arrested for burning a copy of Koran!Apparently that's a crime over there.Also there were reports about how most restaurants,hospitals,schools serve only halal food without even letting the consumers know about it.No matter if you are atheist,muslim,christian or Pagan your meat must be blessed from some imam

If true, that's rather sad. Burning a Quoran should be allowed, no matter how dumb it might be. But too bad we have to deal with this stuff instead of driving out traitorous Israeli influence on the United States.

 

[Martin]

If true, that's rather sad. Burning a Quoran should be allowed, no matter how dumb it might be. But too bad we have to deal with this stuff instead of driving out traitorous Israeli influence on the United States.

Let me ask you somin on that note. How do you feel about the whole US flag burning? Cause to me that was a pretty surreal event. In the words of one guy:

- Look, I'm burning your flag.
- No, you're burning your flag.

 

[Fred]

Burning a quran is ok, but wearing a piece of cloth on ones head is not. I love the consistent standards.

 

[Martin]

Burning a quran is ok, but wearing a piece of cloth on ones head is not. I love the consistent standards.

Are you saying it's not okay?

 

[Fred]

I'm saying be consistent, either both are ok, or neither are ok.

 

[Bjerknes]

Let me ask you somin on that note. How do you feel about the whole US flag burning? Cause to me that was a pretty surreal event. In the words of one guy:

- Look, I'm burning your flag.
- No, you're burning your flag.

I don't care if someone burns the US flag. That's their own choice to waste their time. But if someone like a Palestinian wanted support from Americans, I'd suggest they don't burn our flag. It's not like it will make a difference anyway. It just makes the rest of the population look like idiots, rightfully or wrongly.

Plus I'm all for freedom of speech.

 

[Gamaro]

British schools where girls must wear the Islamic veil

Hundreds of girls are bring forced by British schools to wear the Islamic veil in a move which has been heavily criticised by mainstream Muslims.

Islamic schools have introduced uniform policies which force girls to wear the burka or a full headscarf and veil known as the niqab.

Moderate followers of Islam said yesterday that enforcement of the veil was a "dangerous precedent" and that children attending such schools were being "brainwashed".


The Sunday Telegraph has established that three UK institutions have introduced a compulsory veil policy when girls are walking to or from school. They are:

Madani Girls' School in east London;
Jamea Al Kauthar in Lancaster;
Jameah Girls' Academy in Leicester.

All three are independent, fee-paying, single-sex schools for girls aged 11 to 18. Critics warned that the spectacle of burka-clad pupils entering and leaving the schools at the start and end of the day could damage relations between Muslim and non-Muslim communities.

Ed Husain, co-director of Quilliam, the counter-extremist think-tank, said: "It is absurd that schools are enforcing this outdated ritual – one that which sends out a damaging message that Muslims do not want to fully partake in British society.

"Although it is not the government's job to dictate how its citizens dress, it should nonetheless ensure that such schools are not bankrolled or subsidised by the British taxpayer."

He added: "The enforcing of the niqab on young girls is not a mainstream Islamic practice – either in Britain or in most Muslim-majority countries.

"It is a desert practice which belongs to another century and another world."
Dr Taj Hargey, an imam and chairman of the Muslim Educational Trust of Oxford, said: "This is very disturbing and sets a dangerous precedent.

"It means that Muslim children are being brainwashed into thinking they must segregate and separate themselves from mainstream society.

"The use of taxpayers' money for such institutions should be absolutely opposed. The wearing of the burka or niqab is a tribal custom and these garments are not even mentioned in the Koran."

Philip Hollobone, the Tory MP who has attempted to bring in a Private Members' Bill to ban wearing of the burka in public, also condemned the schools' uniform policies.

"It is very sad in 21st century Britain that three schools are effectively forcing girls as young as 11 to hide their faces," he said.

"How on earth are these young ladies going to grow up as part of a fully integrated society if they are made to regard themselves as objects at such a young age?"
Conservative councillors have accused Labour-controlled Tower Hamlets council of subsidising Madani Girls' School by selling the school its current premises for £320,000 below market value.

In late 2008 the council agreed to sell the Victorian building, previously Grenfell Primary School, to Madani's trustees for £1.33 million even though a valuation at the time said it was worth £1.65 million.

At the time there were plans to turn Madani into a state-funded Muslim school, one of only a handful in Britain.

The sale of the site was presented to councillors as the "next significant step" towards the school obtaining voluntary aided status. These plans have now stalled, according to the council.

Councillors were advised to allow the sale at a loss because the price had been agreed in 2004 when it represented a fair market value.

The deal had been delayed by four years because the school needed to raise funds, but council chiefs wanted to honour the originally-agreed figure.

However, council minutes from December 2008 show that Tim Archer, a Tory councillor, warned that "a council asset was being sold below market value and public money was being used to subsidise the purchase".

He also suggested the school was in breach of the council's inclusiveness policy.
Madani, which has 260 pupils, charges fees of £1,900 a year. Its website states: "All payments should be made in cash. We do not accept cheques."

School uniform rules listed on the website have been deleted but an earlier version, seen by this newspaper, stated: "The present uniform conforms to the Islamic Code of dressing. Outside the school, this comprises of the black Burka and Niqab."

The admission application form warns girls will be "appropriately punished" for failing to wear the correct uniform, and its website adds: "If parents are approached by the Education Department regarding their child's education, they should not disclose any information without discussing it with the committee."

Madani Girls' School, which is a listed as a private limited company and was removed from the Charity Commission's records at the end of last year, was visited by Ofsted in 2008 but the inspectorate's report makes no mention of the strict uniform code.

It rated the school's overall performance as "satisfactory" but noted that "the history curriculum is limited to Islamic history in Key Stage 3". A number of aspects of school life were praised, including pupil behaviour.

Explaining the school's ethos, Madani's website says: "If we oppose the lifestyle of the west then it does not seem sensible that the teachers and the system, which represents that lifestyle, should educate our children."

Jamea Al Kauthar is a £2,500-a-year girls' boarding school, which accommodates 400 pupils in the grounds of Lancaster's former Royal Albert Hospital.

It states on its website: "Black Jubbah [smock-like outer garment] and dopatta [shawl] is compulsory as well as purdah (veil) when leaving and returning to Jamea. Scarves are strictly not permitted."

The website also lists a wide range of banned items, including family photographs, and warns: "Students must not cut their hair, nor remove hair from between their eyebrows. Doing so will lead to suspention (sic)."

Jamea Al Kauthar was rated "outstanding" by Ofsted earlier this year.

In Leicester, Jameah Girls Academy, which charges £1,750 a year for primary-age pupils and £1,850 for secondary, states in its rules: "Uniform, as set out in the pupil/parent handbook, which comprises of headscarf and habaya for all pupils, and niqab for girls attending the secondary years, to be worn during journeys to and from The Academy."

Anastasia de Waal, deputy director of think-tank Civitas, said: "We now have a scenario where schools such as these will be able to apply to become free schools, under the Government's policy, and therefore receive state funding. We need absolute clarity on what the position is going to be on such applications."

None of the schools responded to questions posed by The Sunday Telegraph.
A spokeswoman for Tower Hamlets said of Madani: "The local authority is not currently in talks with the school to enable it to become voluntary aided but we were in talks previously.

"With regards to sale of the site, it was agreed by Cabinet in 2004 to sell the freehold of the property to the Madani Girls School for £1.33m, which represented the market value at that time.

"The sale was delayed due to the need for the school to raise funds. The school managed to secure the money in 2008 where it was agreed at a Cabinet meeting in November 2008 the sale would be honoured at the previously agreed price of £1.33 million as the proposed sale would raise capital to invest in new projects and benefit the community.

"A local authority has the discretion to sell at an 'undervalue' of up to £2,000,000."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...s-where-girls-must-wear-the-Islamic-veil.html

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I for one am totally surprised.

In fact,whether the Burqa is right or wrong,were those girls really forced?
And if a school has some kind of restriction regarding the uniform,shall we call that Forcing?

I mean the word forced has been clearly missused here?

In fact,non of the female members in my family wears Burqa,and i'm not defending it and will never say that it is a must in Islam,but what is the problem with the ppl if a women is convinced with it?

I'd call it the Burqa not the Islamic veil. Or do you mean the regular headscarf?

Why don't we say "Hijab"/ headscarf or burqa? When someone says the Islamic veil, i automatically assume they mean the headscarf, but apparently some people call the burqa "islamic veil"

there is nothing called an islamic veil in Islam.

Of course. Because you think religion is a source of all good and therefore anyone doing anything to restrict it is the bad guy and by definition has murky motives. Now frankly I could care less what the real motive is, just as long as the outcome is still positive.

Is it wrong Martin to think that my religion is a source of all good?

I mean isn't there something called freedom of thoughts?

So,am i wrong if i think that i am right?Do i have to think i'm wrong or what?

Don't u Martin yourself have ideas and opinions which u believe they are right no matter what ppl say or think about them?

What would you call the systematic hindering people from building mosques, building minarets, banning the veil, banning imports on halal meat, etc?

If this was done to 'strange' Jewish customs it'd be called Antisemitism but if it's done against Muslims it's "we're definitely not Islamophobic".

Exactly like what happend here:

I don't know what is the problem in chanting Palestine..Palestine

Or do you not call them kids when they are 11?

Ofcourse,an 11 yrs old girl is still a kid.But i think the girls start wearing it when they are like 14 or 15,yet the are still underage but the reason behind that is just to make them used to it in a younger age.You know if you want a person to become a professional footballer u can't just give him the ball when he becomes 18 and tell him to go and play.Another example are the nudists,they don't become nudists when they just become adults,but they are being in nude since their childhood.

Thats some strange logic there Martin. I'd expect better reasoning from you.

Ban it to prevent people from forcing it? How are you any better than the other party if thats your reasoning? Both of you are being equally oppressive

I'm not necessarily against banning the burqa in certain places, but for the right reasons.

Banning it to prevent people from forcing it is just another form of force.

Halal meat is not blessed by an imam.

Yeah. homie, tremble in fear. .

edit: "Sharia law" doesn't even exist in all "Muslim" countries but yeah, the United Kingdom is going to get it

This is the main problem mate,most of the Islam criticisers don't know more than 10 or 20 % of Islam.

The Islamic veil is idiotic as hell anyway. I'm all for banning that bullshit. If this religion was really meaningful, it would appreciate what God created, not shun it. But hell, all these religions are dumb anyway. Just another distraction from stuff that really matters, like building a suitable economy for the future.

Now,to all those westerns who complain about why the Muslims reactions are sometimes aggressive,i would tell them to read a post like this.

I'm all the way with Freedom of speech,but why do you Andy use words like idiotic,bullshit,dumb?Do u have to use them to express your thoughts?

Martin posted nearly 10 or maybe more posts in this thread,none of each contains any abusive words,not even a single word.But Andy is always Andy.

If true, that's rather sad. Burning a Quoran should be allowed, no matter how dumb it might be. But too bad we have to deal with this stuff instead of driving out traitorous Israeli influence on the United States.

I would say,burning Quran is not an issue at all.

First of all,saying "burning Quarn" is Wrong,it should be said "burning Mushaf",and Mushaf is any book that within it contains the holy words of Allah,and Quran is "the holy words of Allah".So Quran cannot be burnt cos it is nothing but words and u cannot burn words,but u can burn what is written which is
Mushaf.

Now it doesn't really matter because of two things;

1-This is a thing which i bet that all the non-muslim members here don't know,Mushaf was first written after the prophet Muhammad death because during his life time people used to memorize Quran and they were reciting knowing it by heart without reading any written thing.So burning Mushaf is really not a big deal cos Muhammad himself did't use any Mushaf to read from.

2-If people decided to burn all the Mushafs on Earth,in just one gathering that takes even less than one hour we can bring it back.Because there are 10s of millions in the world who know the entire Quran by heart,and i thank God everyday that i myself one of those millions who know the entire Quran by heart
So i myself can can open a thread here and write the entire Quran again here.

That's is really not gonna change anything whether the mushaf is burnt or not.

 

[Martin]

In fact,whether the Burqa is right or wrong,were those girls really forced?
And if a school has some kind of restriction regarding the uniform,shall we call that Forcing?

I mean the word forced has been clearly missused here?

Banning it to prevent people from forcing it is just another form of force.

So forcing someone to wear it is not a correct use of the word "forcing" but banning someone from wearing is forcing? You are so logical.

 

[Gamaro]

So forcing someone to wear it is not a correct use of the word "forcing" but banning someone from wearing is forcing? You are so logical.

U have not got my point,what i meant is the article says the girls are forced to wear it in those schools,but how can u be so sure that the girls are really forced?
maybe it is their own will to wear it,and they wear it everywhere.And from here my point start,they are following a rule not being forced.

Juventuz doesn't allow the memebers to abuse each others,so is it correct to say"I'm forced not to abuse"?
Don't u think i better should say "I'm following a rule of Juventuz"?


And what i also want to say,there are many schools in every country in the world that have specific uniforms for their students,u can't say they all are forcing their students.It is a rule.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

So, in short, forcing & forcing are 2 completely different things. That's settled then.

 

[Martin]

U have not got my point,what i meant is the article says the girls are forced to wear it in those schools,but how can u be so sure that the girls are really forced?
maybe it is their own will to wear it,and they wear it everywhere.And from here my point start,they are following a rule not being forced.

Juventuz doesn't allow the memebers to abuse each others,so is it correct to say"I'm forced not to abuse"?
Don't u think i better should say "I'm following a rule of Juventuz"?

Yes, and if you are not wearing the veil then you are following the rule of France. So there is no forcing.